Community charges..... non-payers....direct action?

Acky..................

We have had final judgements from the court and it has taken 2 years which is VERY fustrating.

We are awaiting the court's final check of the debtor's assets in Spain and if there is not enough monies available from those the apartments will be embargoed and sold.

As the costs are given to the debtor......there is no cost to the community.

BESIDES......what is the alternative ................just let them get away with it??????????????

Chill out Fibby!!

Ruffling a few feathers? Taken with a pinch of salt... what do you mean by that? Explain.  After all this is A FORUM.

Karensun.  As wife to El Presidente.  I am sure he is aware that taking someone to court could take up to eight years to finalise any judgement. 

Of course, my President, and other Presidents (and Administrator) that I know well are aware of all the hassle.  That wasn't the point.

You say your hubby has taken people to court over non payment.  Got any update??

If, say, a case was proved..and the debtor was to sell their house to pay their dues.  In the current climate, who's going to buy it?  This issue will run and run....at a cost to the relevant communities.

Fibby. Can you pass the salt, I'm just tucking into fish & chips!

I have a funny feeling new member Acky is a wind up KarenSun?!

We all know you give good solid an knowledgeable advice.

I think the post should be taken with a pinch of salt and a slice of lime.........mmmmmmmmm delicious tequila!

Cheers everyone!

OK Acky...................my husband has been Presidente of our Urb of 184 apartments for 3 years. My experience is FIRST HAND. Our Urb is actually doing ( or has done ) this court action for non community fee payers.

I DO NOT post any information of which I do not have knowledge or experience because I would not want to give any false information.

Your Presidente should be aware of how to deal LEGALLY with non-payers and your Administrator should also have this knowledge.

If I can help further................just ask...........

Karensun: Have you got solid evidence of this? 

I have yet to hear or read about anyone goint to court - regarding unpaid Comunity debts. 

And I certainly haven't come across; quote 'First they look at all the assets the debtor has in Spain ( bank accounts etc. ) and if the money cannot be got that way, they ( the courts ) will embargo and sell the property.

*Please do post on the forum a clipping of where you have got your info from. Or, as with some other matters in Spain, is it 'idle gossip'?

It is ALL done by the courts, Acky. First they look at all the assets the debtor has in Spain ( bank accounts etc. ) and if the money cannot be got that way, they ( the courts ) will embargo and sell the property.

I will let the President know of this.  Please keep me posted of the outcome.  Although, if the debtors won't pay any fee's even if the courts grant charges I still can't see them coughting up.  As for selling properties to bring in the debt who is going to oversee this?

Acky..................we have taken several large debtors to court and are awaiting the embargos right now. It does take a long time but if the debt is more than 300€ it does not cost the community anything to go to court and the one who owes the money will have to pay the costs ( usually from the enforced sale of thier property ).....................it's the only LEGAL way to go and Spanish courts do not allow any excuses for non payment of community fees.

Funnily enough (and thankfully) we have NO debtors in our community, and our problem is not so much people breaking doors down, as not closing them behind them. The scumbag who broke into a car was an outsider - not someone from the community.

Community fee debtors is a bear bug for ALL communities in Espana.

Despite letters, threats etc., hardy folk just refuse to cough up their dues, putting community coffers into debt, in certain instances.

Keys for pools, etc., have been denied, but the shysters usually manage to get a dip.

I read some posting with the huge fees (All I can say is tyhere must be some ealthy people out there)

I read about one president who chained up those in debt's homes - so they couldn't get in their property.  Would you Adam and Eve that?  But it still goes on.

And I have never heard of any debtor being taken to Court in Espana....And to take debtors to Court will also drain the coffers even more.

For people breaking doors down and smashing car windows...they sound like nice neighbours. Not!

Its just a case of deja-vu...with Brits not paying their Poll Tax under Maggie Thatcher.  (Maybe those same folk are now in Spain?!!)

If you deny them keys, they'll just break the doors / gates. Do not make the mistake of crediting your neighbours with any shred of responsibility or decency.

One of our neighbours had her car broken into in the communal underground garage a few days ago - window smashed etc... It's most likely that the culprit got in to the garage because on numerous occasions the automated door gets left open, by someone with a faulty "clicker" who rather than get it fixed, opens the door manually. However, once it has been opened manually, it will not close automatically, and must be closed manually too. I know who is leaving the door open (by a process of elimination) but cannot prove it unless I catch them red-handed. Furthermore, they rent a garage space and do not live in the building, so the correct procedure would be to complain to the owner about their tennant's behaviour and then hope the owner does something about the faulty clicker. We (the community) have pointed out to all owners on numerous occasions the importance of security, and the responsibility of both owners and their tennants to ensure the security of all.

The day after my neighbour's car was broken into, I went down to the garage and found the door open yet again. While I was there, my neighbour's husband drove in, and I pointed out to him that the door was open. HE said, "oh yes, it was open when I went out an hour ago". The thing is, it hadn't occured to him to close it after him, despite the fact his wife's car was in the garage - with a broken window.

You cannot, unfortunately, rely on people behaving how you would expect them to. It brings to mind that redundant questions teachers used to ask naughty children in class - "would you behave like that in your own home?" When the answer is a confused "err...yeah", what can you do?

What if you have a key entry system and the debtors want extra keys then surely you can deny them this or charge them an exorbitant price for additional keys as we have fulfilled our obligation by not preventing access.

Hypothetically what if you gave them no keys. They would then have to take the community to court--how long would that take.

Many urbanisations are really struggling this year with the credit  crunch and hugh debtors lists to a point when lifts, pools and cleaning--the basics are under jeopardy, I fear this problem will get quite bad this year.

noddy

Hi Plexx

Sorry but you will find that Karensun is correct, it does seem unfair but when you think about it the same system applies in the U.K. and no one bothers too much there.  Also similar to the U.K. court action is the only way to go, it may take longer here but everything always does, and usually the Community wins and is awarded costs.  You do need to have this subject brought up, voted on and recorded at your next A.G.M./E.G.M. however, before you can proceed.

I think you will find that it is NOT legal to deny debtors any Community facility, however unfair this may sound.

The only way, and it takes ages, to sort out the debtors is by Court action.

Like many communities, we have the standard Spanish television, which I understand is a requirement for new builds and also Sky dishes, which were erected and paid for by the community after construction. I am told that it is illegal to disconnect debtors from the television service, but does this apply only to the Spanish TV? It seems to me that if owners are not fulfilling their obligation to pay community fees then there should be no legal obstruction to disconnecting them from what is purely a community owned leisure service the withdrawal of which would not affect basic living standards.

You are very lucky!!

You know where I am if you need anything.

Just curious, really, as I've never heard of that possibility. Fortunately, all our owners pay on time and we have no outstanding debts.

Hi Roberto,

There are means of doing it against any nationality through the british courts.

Contact me if you require further details.

Regards,

Steve

Intriguing post! Are you talking about claiming money owed by British (UK resident) owners, or anybody? Surely, British courts would not entertain debts owed by Spanish owners of Spanish property? Or?.......

Hi new to this site. I am experiencing all the same problems in our community. However, there is a way to deal with the outstanding money without going through Spanish courts.

Use UK courts. New legislation at start of next year will make it even easier.

I can help any community recover outstanding fees from people in any country. It will not take months and they can be threatened with having their property sold after about six weeks if they do not respond.

The reality is why should everybody else suffer for the ignorance of a minority.

I am based in UK so easy to take instructions and discuss what needs to be done.

Easiest to get me by email. Don't know if that is possible. Not sure if I can put it on here. Don't want to break the rules on my first visit!

Please get in touch if you need to engage my services.