The future for ex pats

Euro not looking to good

I think greece is going and spain not far behind

anyhow i always thought spain was better with its own dosh

Hi Justin,

You WILL be eating your shorts. The euro is on an unstopable slide.

May I sell some tickets to watch ?

In sterling only of course !

I don't want to see anyone eating their shorts but if Greece reverts to the drachma, whiich seems ever more likely, it will become by far the cheapest holiday destination in Europe, not only for Brits but for the French, Germans and Scandinavians as well. If that happens, Spain will have to do something to remain competitive or we will lose the tourist revenue - and that's just about all we've got. As devaluation within the Euro is not an option, I wouldn't write the peseta off just yet!

You can blame me and my hubby for what has happened in Spain and the UK

Everything we have ever invested in has gone sour, we bought our apartment in Spain at the top of the market and the decline started from there.   We also bought endowments on our mortgage on our UK home when they were being called "the best thing since sliced bread" in the early 80's and a good investment for the future and we ended up losing on all of them.    We have bought shares since 2002 when the market was on the up and we were told "you have to hold your shares for 7 years at least to get a return".   Here we are 10 years later and the market is going down yet again.   If we had put our money in the building society, I don't think we would have ended up with any less money if not more !    I have bought Royal Doulton figures when they were increasing in value and paid £80 apiece for them, now they are worth about £20 to £40.   My husband had a private pension which we took out in the 80's and was promised £29,000 cash sum and £160 per week pension when he retired.   We froze it a few years before he retired last year as they were hitting the bottom when share prices crashed along with property prices and everything else.   He now has £50 per week and was paid approx. £15,000 in cash.   Finally we moved house to pay off our mortgage on our Spanish property whilst we could still sell our UK home due to the downturn and purchased a housing association bungalow costing half the price of our house being half the size of our house and it is the first time we have had savings left in the bank and now we have record low interest rates on savings.

We took part in a Panorama programme a couple of years back which highlighted "Where have the savers and their savings gone".    Martin Shaw who was the presenter and interviewed us about our investments said after we related our long sorry story "Next time you are thinking of investing in something let me know first and I will make sure I don't put money into it !!".

My mother always said she came from an unlucky family, when she met my father she had just gone into a public loo in the late 40's, and in the dark she put her handbag down in a load of poo ! (lol)    She always said it blighted her life and it was a hint not to marry my dad.    They parted in their late 50's after trying to make a reconciliation work, they were completely mismatched but as they were from a traditional family background would not divorce us 6 kids carried on the bad luck story from there.

Sorry to relate my long sad story (not feeling sorry for myself as I know many others have fared as bad if not worse), but just thought it would cheer you all up knowing that some people may have had worse luck than just losing on a spanish property and it was probably due to their input things have continued to get worse !!

after all that bad luck buy some lotto tickets tonight, its gotta change soon

 I have been preparing to return to Spain in search of my new home.  Two nights ago at a local cafe the young lady over heard my conversation about my home search.  She came over to our table and began to cry, telling me of her family and why she left Spain for the USA.  She is here on a tourist visa but really here to find work and help support her family.  At first I thought it was just a scam but the more she got into the story the more I realized it was true.  She had already found work at a local hotel and was staying with another relative who came to the DC area a few months ago with the same plans.  Lourdes said she lost her job, at a bank, 6 months ago and the only way she would have been able to keep it was to begin having sex with her manager, which she refused to do.  She was university educated in finance, spoke english very well and was engaging.  She wished me well on my search but with a word of caution.  Lourdes said to hold off on any purchase, property values will continue to fall as well as the eruo.  Her specialty was foreclosed property management (also saying that the bank she worked at had more returned properties in it's inventory than posted on the books, she oversaw these properties not posted).   I've changed my search plans and now am looking for a rental.

Trowell -

Been doing that since it started, I gave up 5 years ago after only having won a couple of tenners in 10 or 12 yrs and playing twice a week.   Now hubby continues with his regular nos.   Did have 4 nos. once £63 and has won a few tenners but not a good return on twice a week since it started !

As for other gambling, I play bingo twice a week and watch the same half dozen people win every other week, myself I win about once every 12 months - like I say, picture of bad luck    Even my husband said I should pack up playing but it is a social outing to see friends so what can i do ?

 Re. the euro. Somebody once said that capitalism has within it the seeds of its own destruction. It is happening now and the destruction is unstoppable. Governments are no longer in control of anything and haven't been since the 1980s. Goldman Sachs rules the world. What can be done? Firstly, the gangsters who created the current crisis should be arrested and their ill-gotten gains confiscated. We must put people in power who can make a fundamental adjustment to the system. There are enough people in the world with the ideas, for example, The Venus Project. 

Secondly, whether we like it or not, Democracy is no longer a valid system for running the world. The UK and Greece are the latest examples. I am not advocating a Soviet system as that failed as well, and when it failed it wasn't long before the super-rich Russians emerged.  It could be said, however, that the failure of the USSR accelerated the seeds of capitalism's downfall. We allowed the Friedman/Greenspan system of unregulated free-market finance capitalism to dominate the world to the detriment of millions of people.

Finally, I don't think it matters much where the British live as long as we remain British citizens for the forseeable future. After that, who knows?

DBS living in Australia, don't forget you might be safer financially but look at the dangerous animals you've got, the box jellyfish, lots of venomous snakes, saltwater crocodiles and not to mention the red back spider whose speciality is hiding in the toilet to bite you on the bum. NO ! give me Spain anytime.

Seriously though, I agree with Georgia, there are issues in every country and any problems in Greece or anywhere else in Europe will impact worldwide but especially in UK. We're all connected through world trade and half the UK is owned by foreigners anyway. So in Spain we have the sun and a relaxing way of life - just don't watch the news or read the papers. lol.

As for where does that leave the Euro, well I believe it will still exist for a while yet as Germany is doing too well as it stands with exports and won't want a strong currency like a new Deutschmark.

In my case I bought an apartment at the end of 2010 at a good price and a lovely little town in Almeria called Turre and didn't think of it as an investment but more a second home and indeed we are still thinking of selling up and moving permanently to Spain. We are lucky to be retired with no mortgage on either property and both receiving pensions. For people in similar circumstances does it really matter what happens to the Euro because it is very unlikely that a) the Euro will strengthen back to say €1.00 / £1.00 so at say €1.25 /£ we are comfortable and b) if the peseta is reintroduced with Spain leaving the Euro then you can bet it will not be a strong currency so we will be better off again.

And Jwhite's sad story is typical of many of us, we've all had the endowments and the great promises which came to nowt (we were lucky enough to see the writing on the wall and sold the endowment and switched to repayment). The private pension that promised huge payouts if you left it long enough ( I took it  when I was 57 against my IFA's advice and it was the best thing I ever did) but it was still nowhere near what was promised. The lottery is a waste of money but I still do it and my wife plays online bingo on numerous sites but, yes, even online the same names seem to keep winning.

We downsized in UK to buy the Spanish apartment and don't regret any of it. I think if you can remain optimistic and are lucky enough to have a positive attitude to life then you can overcome most hurdles.  

fyfin -

Agree with you that that is what life is all about, swings and roundabouts and we have not regretted buying our apartment, we love Spain but only due to financial constraints will we sell it which is not far into the future.   However, we have had some lovely holidays there and met a lot of lovely people.  I wouldn't change a thing really, we have friends that have loads of dosh in the bank, never took a risk in their lives, not even signed a HP agreement but buy everything in cash, never moved house, always stayed in safe jobs, only ever go on cheap holidays.

I take pride in knowing that we have tried it all, property, investments, holidays, jobs (have run shops), and have enriched our lives along the way with 2 lovely kids and have 4 grandchildren and 1 great grandchild (just borne in March).

Life is like a rich tapestry and we weave our way through it picking up dropped stiches along the way but hopefully arriving the richer for our experiences

Ifty - Good luck but I think you will find Spain's property market is nearly at the bottom or as far as it will go, that is according to the experts or rather property experts like Mark Stucklin who has studied Spain's property markets for years.   Our property for example is worth exactly 50% of its original value at the height of the market in 2007.

Put it another way, unless people are destitute and forced to sell, like ones that had mortgages they couldn't afford, these have already gone from the market.   The ones left like us will hang on until things improve or they will rent out if they don't need the capital, many of which are retired people with second homes.   At the end of the day people will only reduce so far and then stop and I think many have reached that point now.

Jwhite, I can see we have a similar outlook on life - in fact we ran a  shop as well for a while - big mistake but don't get me started on that one. We have also taken risks and have friends who never moved house and holiday in UK but horeses for courses. Je regret rien, as the song goes.

I am also inclined to agree with you that prtices will not drop much lower, and in fact, I am convinced that they are already starting to rise a little for desirable properties in my area in Spain. However, some properties just don't sell and there would be no point in dropping prices as it would make no difference until you got to real stupid giveaway prices.

And always remember why we like Spain, sunshine, relaxation, drinking beer, wine or coffee outdoors and mixing with like minded people.

I thought that the question was about health care? I am an ex-pat as we seem to be called and I have lived very happily in Andalucia for over 6 years now. As far as health care is concerned, we are fully covered by the Spanish Health Service, having done all the right things when we arrived here.

I will say that I find the Spanish Heath Service excellent. We have a first class Spanish Doctor, who speaks good English (we had to hunt around a bit to find him?). I get excellent service, all free medication, (although not Gluten Free foods as in the UK?) Our local hospital is 1st class and we are completely happy and satisfied. So pack your bags and do the best thing that you have ever done in your life. España is excellent and our home for the rest of out lives.

 I can't understand it when people say prices can't go much lower. Suppose Goldman Sachs tell the Spanish banks that they have to write down their housing inventory by 50%, 60%, 70% in value - how would that help? Who are the people who could buy these millions of properties even at 80% reduction, let alone 50%? The banks have to crystalise their losses. Just like when you are broke and have to sell your house/car/whatever, the Spanish banks are broke, bust, bankrupt....and will HAVE to sell these properties sooner or later, they can't just hang on to them indefinitely, they are already deteriorating. The banks will in any case all pass into liquidation and be gobbled up by some other entity that sooner or later will need to realise the cash. Who is going to buy all this stuff? The 50% unemployed Spanish youngsters - who the developers originally had in mind? The ever growing group of elderly on reduced pensions? The immigrants, many of whom have buggered off back to Romania, Morocco, etc? Who? Perhaps Greeks looking for somwhere to escape.

To Leonardojose in DC - if that unknown woman did open your eyes, she did you a huge service. 

 To those who are considering buying property at this time in Spain - DO NOT.

Here in Ireland so called experts have been proclaiming year after year - since 2008/9 - property prices have bottomed out. 

They were wrong. Property prices are still falling. Houses have dropped by 50% approx and apartments by 65% approx from their height in 2007.

Yes, we must be near the bottom - but this phrase has been used so often during the last 4/5 years one cannot be sure.

Now, do any of you out there believe Spanish property prices have bottomed out? 

Or, with regard to property prices falling more or not, is Spain different to Ireland?

I don't.

Seamus

P.S. Spain and Ireland will still have one thing in common in the years ahead - both countries will remain in the Euro.

Seamus I can see where you are coming from but I think you are all missing the point which I sort of mentioned in a previous point.  In Ireland and Spain (incidentally I originate from Northern Ireland) , the developers seemed to think there would be no end to demand and just kept building financed by the banks.

In Spain, as David from Oz mentioned, they built big Eastern European style blocks that nobody wants to buy or live in and I like the idea of bulldozing the lot to the ground.

I still see prices held or rising for desirable property in a good location.

What I can't understand about Spain is there are literally millions of properties standing empty and there are millions of people living in overcrowded accommodation where youngsters can't move out of the family home as they have nowhere to go that is affiordable now and it seems to me that there is very little social housing.   I know that the high unemployment now would make turning those empty properties into rental properties a bit like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted but then again the Spanish government were never ones for being forward thinking or showing initiative in their running of Spain !

Firstly they have to invest in creating jobs, something that certain countries seem to have a big problem with, UK in particular but as that seems to indicate spending lots of money governments haven't got at the moment, I don't see where the jobs are going to come from.

At the bottom of all this are the people, political fodder and obviously a price worth paying for career hungry politicans with a "super power" vision of Europe, a price worth paying if you listen to politicians of Brussels but in my opinion just signals decades of austerity to come from countries being plundered year on year to bail out failed economies like Greece.

As for property prices, supply and demand dictate where these prices will go.   There will always be a demand (more so in the UK where housebuilding has come to a fullstop), but even in Spain there will be demand from the rest of Europe from countries not yet impoverished like the rest of us that are waiting in the wings to pick up a bargain.    Let's not forget, not all countries are living in austerity with huge numbers of unemployed, Russia, and the Scandinaviation countries to mention but a few but also Spain has always been a desired place to live for its weather and its World Health Organisation approval as THE place to live !