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You could close every account reported and open new ones, although many UK banks won't allow non-residents to open accounts now. And not much you can do about pensions. John, you don't "sign" your income tax form if it's submitted online, either, do you? I doubt if your argument would get you far. It's still ultimately your responsibility to check that your gestor submits the correct info. I have asked mine to print my 720 and call me before submitting it, so I can double check it.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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Campo,
So, if the petition is successful, it's too late for those of us who have exposed our private bank details etc.
I was told today by my gestor that in Hollland they have been required to report their assets for years, Seems Spain is not the only place after all.
Roberto
John, you don't "sign" your income tax form if it's submitted online, either, do you?
Robert, you know how I hate to disagree with you, but every year for the past 25 years I have always signed my income tax return. Even when completed on line by my gestor, it is then printed out and I have signed it. It was the same when my bank did and when the Hacienda did it.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 12/04/2013.
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Johnx-do residents in other countries have to enter all the details we have been asked to do?
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IS that ALL the countries of the world or ANY in PARTICULAR
LOL
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Campo, I did not ask for details, but she told me it was the same in Holland when I was complaining about Spain.
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Rod-Obviously any country which has an asset reporting law. Why are you shouting?
This message was last edited by camposol on 13/04/2013.
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Rod,
as I only live I am only really concerned about Spain.
Apart from the inconvenience of having to prepare the info, and the cost of the Gestor to do it., I really do not objection to the requirement.
It has always been (since I have lived in Spain) that one must declare their worldwide income and I have, nothing has really changed.
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IS that ALL the countries of the world or ANY in PARTICULAR
LOL
Well i can tell you one country that this applies to, and where most of it's workforce has never done so, employed or self-employed....England....Our tax laws are a bit easy going in many respects, but NOT if you cross the Inland Revenue, then you will find out what you should have told them.
If in any doubt you are supposed to tell the UK Inland Revenue EVERYTHING and let them tell you back if they are concerned about it.
All countries have traded information about the lost tax revenue that they should have collected, and are now slowly but surely doing something about it, your money is NOT even safe in a bank account in Switzerland anymore either.
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, Baz . your money is NOT even safe in a bank account in Switzerland anymore either.
Believe me it has not been for over 25 years, even with numbered accounts.
Also, for many years all cash transactions (other than cash) in Europe (and maybe worldwide) pass through a computer in Belgium. The USA authorities, not sure if is IRS or another, have had access to that computer for years. So no secrets.
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I don't think many people are objecting to declaring their assets. What they do object to is the amount of intrusive detail required, IBAN, BIC, etc. Do other countries really ask for minute detail? Of course we are worried about who could misuse our information, and do not trust that it is secure. The petition sums it all up nicely.this new law will do nothing to those who continue under the radar, while our accounts may be subjected to scrutiny. The Hacienda would be better spending its time chasing all those wo have lived in Spain for many years and never registered on the tax system. The police station have their lists of foreigners registered, and the social security have lists of those registered for free health care, so what's the problem.
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Camposol sorry to critical but:
Of course we are worried about who could misuse our information
No one can operate an account with just the Swift code, Iban and account number. ( I am ex police fraud dept)
The petition sums it all up nicely
I personality think the Petition is poorly worded and it does not strike me as a professional attempt to present the objections.
Marks for it: 5 out of 10.
……….. chasing all those who have lived in Spain for many years and never registered on the tax system.
The declarations will enable the Agencia Tributaria (Hacienda) to do just that by giving the legislation real teeth. Fines minimum 10,000 euros, up to 164% of the value of undeclared asset
The police station have their lists of foreigners registered, and the social security have lists of those registered for free health care,
That info has nothing whatsoever to do with tax avoidance.
I don't think many people are objecting to declaring their assets.
No, mainly its those who have not paid what they were obliged to pay, thus leaving us who have paid, to pick up the slack. Rather like one person in group not paying their round whilst enjoying the drinks paid for by the others. Parasites, comes to mind
This message was last edited by johnzx on 14/04/2013.
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No, mainly its those who have not paid what they were obliged to pay, thus leaving us who have paid, to pick up the slack. Rather like one person in group not paying their round whilst enjoying the drinks paid for by the others. Parasites, comes to mind.
Once again you demonstrate that you are prepared to jump to entirely erroneous conclusions based on no evidence whatsoever. You also fail grasp - completely - the very real issues with this poorly formulated piece of legislation.
The one thing I do agree on is that the petition is not worded very well.
Let me give you one example of where this law falls down completely. It requires persons who "have authority" over any overseas bank account to report it as a "personal asset" and to report it again every time it increases by €20K. In this, it fails to recognise the internationaly accepted standards for Trusts. For example, anyone who is a Trustee of a Registered Charity in the UK, but who spends 6 months in Spain is now supposed to register the charity account as a personal "asset". This is ridiculous. Such accounts are explicity not personal assets. They cannot be used for personal gain, and are categorically not the 'property' of the Trustee. Also, such accounts frequently receive (and hold) quite substantial sums, again, none of which are in any way at the disposal of the Trustee. Yet... here they are being treated as such. This is entirely wrong in principle.
Over the weekend we have had German politicians calling for huge "wealth taxes" on people in countries receiving bailouts... do not forget that in Cyprus some totally people have been effectively wiped out. The concerns here (legitimate concerns) are that this ill-devised law could be a prelude to some kind of asset seizure mechanism... and, in the example I gave above, it could (theoretically) expose entirely non-personal, non-beneficial accounts to similar seizures or "levies".
You have an incredibly touching amount of faith that the "authorities" will act in a responsible, fair and open way. Unfortunately, there is growing evidence that they do the exact opposite. Just ask anyone who was unfortunate enough to have placed house sale proceeds in a Cypriot account.
Concern about and objections to intrusive, oppressive and poor legislation is not the same as endorsing tax evasion. To suggest that it is is not only offensive, it is foolish.
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Poppyseed
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Precisely.
Personally, I have bee very careful not to be here for more than 90 days at a time (no need for EU Citizens Registration) and in any case, France is a nice place to drive to... and have been able to spend a lot of time in the UK and in France each year meaning no need to become tax resident. I had seriously considered changing that situation to include full time and fiscal residency in Spain, that, in turn would have created two jobs here for local people as I would have hired a PA and at least one person to manage my office. Now - no chance. Furthernore, any assets I do have in Spain will be leaving as soon as possible.
A good result for Spain, as usual. Shooting own foot yet again. I would no longer advise anyone to buy here: rent, and make sure you do not become tax resident under any circumstances. Rental prices will be going down again soon, as more and more people decide "enough is enough" and get out. I don't blame them. Many more who were thinking of buying here will decide otherwise.
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I agree 66d35, any thoughts I may have had about becoming resident in Spain or France in the near'ish future are now well and truly over. I only have enough money there to cover bills but will now seriously think about whether to keep the properties as they may turn out to be a huge liability.
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Poppyseed
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On Friday, I submitted my info for the declaration to my Gestor. Today she called and wanted my Passport number.
I was surprised as she had my NIE and I was not aware that the passport number was required
.
PS I am still very happy to be living (and tax resident ) in Spain.
One example. When I left UK 25 years ago, I was paying about £1,000 a year rates on a two bedroomed flat in Harrow. I am even now only paying just over 300 euros (£260) a year IBI in Spain.
Another: My 'road tax' here is 45 euros a year. In UK that would be around £200 (235 euros)
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Well, I am glad I kept a property in the UK (though I hate the weather there) and have continued to use it on a regular basis. It is a shame Spain has chosen to go down this financially suicidal route, but hardly surprising. They can now add this to the list of "attractions to live in Spain" alongside demolitions, corruption, official incompetance and animal neglect/abuse.
My view right now is that anyone who leaves significant assets in Spain is just asking for trouble.
I have several properties in Spain and have spent a lot of money here, supporting local business and the local economy. I would have spent a lot more. I will now be decreasing my investments here.
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66D, I really don’t see what you are complaining about. This is just declaring ones assets which are located outside Spain.
At present anyway ( one can make wild guesses) there is nothing to indicate that there will be any increase in income tax.
In the UK there has always been a requirement to inform the HMRC of the acquisition of a potential capital gains. For example, if you buy a property in Spain you are obliged to tell HMRC. Which I had to do when I bought a studio in Spain in 1983.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 15/04/2013.
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With all this talk of heavy tax's and reporting of assets to screw everyone down to the bone...True or not...i have to wonder where anyone can go that is going to be, or getting any better, and will be much better in the future.
The UK must seem to be fabulous to come back to for many at the moment, but the truth is all the UK is doing right now is treading water, what has happened to the many other countries seems to have missed the UK for now, could be a ticking bomb.
Our debt alone is 5 times what our entire economy is worth, more then Spain, Portugal and Italy together, twice that of Greece, this debt is based on the borrowing rate payback of 2%, what would happen if it went up to 4%...double.
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I think you'll find that most people think the UK is a better place to be right now, apart from those living happily under the radar and those in a rose coloured mist!
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