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madness
what a great incentive to rejuvenate a country
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i coldnt stay away from you miserable whining whingers for some reason
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Camposol The BIC or swift code will look lik BKBKESMM or CAMESHXX or something like that.
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The IBAN code is a 20 digit number, where the first 4 identify the bank, the second 4 the branch, (so like the UK sort code) next 2 are a control check on the first 8, and the remaining 10 are your account number. Boboal has already identified the SWIFT. You just have to provide the number, so I don't see why you can''t use the number you have written down. They can check it, so they should tell you if its wrong. As far as I recall some UK banks have it on their statement, HSBC is I think one example. I would say that cash ISA's fall into the first category, and stocks and insurance into the second category ( bit like bonds really -LOL). The only other point I would add to the note johnzx posted, is that the law says you have to provide the date of account opening for the first category. Until the actual model is available ( and I think I posted a while back that it looks as though it has to be submitted online) then you can only base the information required on the actual published law.
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Just checked and its on the statement of both my bank account., but the format appears slightly diiferent to the European 20 digit number. For a start its 22 digits, with the first 2 GB, the second 2 are a number, the next 4 are alpha i.e HSBC, the next 4 are the first 4 of the sort code, the next 4 are the last 2 sort code numbers, and the first 2 number of your account number, the the remaining 6 are the rest of your account number.
You can check your IBAN here and work it out if you have the details.
This message was last edited by KathysLad on 31/01/2013.
This message was last edited by KathysLad on 31/01/2013.
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I was chatting with a couple of Spanish women who work for a Government Ministry, both are above average intelligence (one has a doctorate and is her husband holds a senior position in Hacienda). I mentioned the new tax law on disclosure of information on assets held outside Spain, and very surprisingly, neither knew anything about it.
I was wondering if others here with Spanish friends have discussed the new law, and if so, what their Spanish friends' general opinion on the law is..
.
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Kathyslad-it appears from johnx's post and from the list sent by Angela south that bonds are in a different category to the one named bank accounts or financial institutions
It seems to me this law has been brought in in indecent haste, with the result that even tax experts are confused about aspects of it. People are panicing about it fearful of the huge punishment if they innocently get it wrong. It is unnecessarily intrusuve and far from encouraging people to come to Spain, it will do the opposite.( Apparently the Brits contribute 1.3 billion euros to the Spanish economy)Why do they have to know such minute detail of bank accounts) Why try to kill the golden goose?
It would have been far better to chase up all those Brits who have lived in Spain for years and haven't contributed anything to the coffers.
The thought of free medical care being withdrawn if not registered on the Spanish system would soon have seenthem on the accountent's doorstep!
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Camposol,
I am given to understand that the new law was to catch Spaniards and that others have been caught up ‘in passing.’
If that is so, it explains why they ‘need to know’ such detail, they are trying to put a stop to tax fraud once and for all.
That would also explain why they have not ‘made allowances’ for non -Spaniards, albeit tax residents, who maybe an asset to the country. Although, I am aware of a number of ‘us’ who are not paying the taxes in Spain which they should.
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Unless you provide some more detail of the types of bonds you're talking about, I can't add any more to my previous posts. I've given examples of the types of bonds I think fall into the different categories. I agree with johnzx though about what the new law was designed to catch. I think we're just innocents caught up in the net. I think the only people who are worried about this, are the ones who already properly declare their income anyway.
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"I think the only people who are worried about this, are the ones who already properly declare their income anyway"
You are of course 100% correct. Those that "fly under the radar" - never filed a tax return in Spain, never contributed in any way - they won't be worried; the authorities have no way of checking up on them, whereas those who diligently try to do everything by the book could potentially end up getting seriously penalised for an innocent misunderstanding of a totally incomprehensible, hastily introduced and ill-thought out law. I fear for Spain's reputation abroad when this gets picked up by the foreign press. Coupled with other lunatic ideas (e.g. increasing IVA on new builds to 10%), the future looks pretty bleak.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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I've just looked at the guidance which they've published ( which is more or less the same as the drafts ), and I still think "bonds" are reported in the way I have described. I.e savings bonds in category 1, and corporate and government bonds (I.e. traded) in category 2
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Roberto - I agree with you;so why doesn't the hacienda track these non payers down? surely it shouldn't be too hard ;social security processes all the applications for medical cards for free care, for people who are resident. Why don't they supply the Hacienda with a list of their clients? Why can't the police station where people register do the same, then the Hacienda can compare the list with income tax declarations received and chase up them up?
Kathyslad-is the list shown by Johnx, and the form sent by Angela South not correct then? both show that bank accounts is one category, and bonds of any type fall into another category. Are these lists too simplified? I would have thought that serarating assets into:
bank accounts
property
investments, life insurances, bonds,shares etc
is a pretty clear way of categorising them?
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As has been indicated by recent posters on this and other threads and sites why would anyone who wasn't buying property ever want to register with any Spanish agency.
Our position is we wanted to have a sebatical of a year or so in Spain and was doing the right thing by applying for a resident visa - have to do as I'm not from the EU. All advise from our French lawyers and accountants as well as what we have picked up from Internet sites such as EoS and from the estate adent who is keen to have a long let on an expensive property is to just fly under the radar.
We can pay cash for most things or use our French debit cards so have no need for a local Bank and if we travel to and from France, Portugal and Gibraltar how would the Spanish authorities ever know how long we have been in the country.
Spain is not helping itself for people to be legal and therefore pay a reasonable level of tax. It seems easier to be easier to just be a long term tourist.
As decline continues I guess it will only get worse.
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We can pay cash for most things or use our French debit cards so have no need for a local Bank and if we travel to and from France, Portugal and Gibraltar how would the Spanish authorities ever know how long we have been in the country.
Spain is not helping itself for people to be legal and therefore pay a reasonable level of tax. It seems easier to be easier to just be a long term tourist.
Because we who live in Spain and pay for the things necessary to run a country don't appreciate parasites who take advantage of the things we pay for.
why would anyone who wasn't buying property ever want to register with any Spanish agency.
Because that is the legal way of doing things.
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Legal - what's legal. As I've discovered there seems to be little rule of law in Spain.
Many people seem to live in a cash society as we discovered when looking for property to rent and staff to help run it. Seems few tradesmen take anything other than cash. Even the taxis drivers have an on meter and off meter rate.
Why would any government want to know what I have in any other country unless they wanted a share.
Even government departments located in Madris and their embacies give differing advice and requirements.
Seems Spain is on the edge of Europe in more ways than geography.
And I for one am not going to register - we'll see how it goes.
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ROSS
Why would any government want to know what I have in any other country unless they wanted a share.
Because in Spain, like USA and some other countries, one must pay income tax and Patrimonio Tax on ones worldwide income and assets.
And I am sure the Spanish government would also like to know who has assets outside Spain which they could not possibly have acquired on their declared income.
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Eventually we'll all just be microchipped at birth and given a bit of pockertmoney each month with everything else including what we think controlled by thestate elite ruling class who will make sure they are well looked after themselves. Think it wont happen??? We're halfway there already.
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Poppyseed
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Campasol " Kathyslad-is the list shown by Johnx, and the form sent by Angela South not correct then? both show that bank accounts is one category, and bonds of any type fall into another category. Are these lists too simplified" No, I'm not saying the lists are wrong. I have said consistently that that the word "bonds" has quite a wide definition, and that in my view some "bonds" fall into the first category, including "savings bonds" which you said you thought fell into the second category. I've given examples , of the different types of bonds, and having read the guidance, I haven't changed my view.
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John: Because in Spain, like USA and some other countries, one must pay income tax and Patrimonio Tax on ones worldwide income and assets.
So, you agree with Ross?
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"Because in Spain, like USA and some other countries, one must pay income tax and Patrimonio Tax on ones worldwide income and assets." Though not, presumably, when tax has already been paid in another country with whom there is a Dual Taxation Agreement?
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Blog about settling into a village house in the Axarquía. http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/tamara.aspx
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Guy,
sorry but I do not see your logic on that one.
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