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Rossetti has not answered my question from yesterday (21:56), but I understand from other previous threads that he is spending some time here in Spain (how much is not my concern) but has chosen, very wisely IMHO, to avoid registering as a resident, let alone a fiscal resident. Therefore nothing on this thread affects him, and such comments should be ignored. Far from being a "soap opera", this is a very serious subject which is of great concern to many here. It is true that most of the stuff on EOS these days is drivel, but this one thread should be taken seriously.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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Therefore nothing on this thread affects him(Rossetti)
Roberto. Well said
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I became a Spanish resident on 4 January 2013. As I understand it, I do not register for tax until 2014 and therefore reporting begins then. Am I correct or should I be declaring my assets immediately? Thank you.
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HR
You are correct. But one does not register for tax, they make the declaration/returns when required to do so.
The tax year in Spain is from 1st Jan to 31st Dec.
The declarations for 2013 will be made in 2014
For the assets in excess of 50,000 euros held outside Spain, before 31st Mar 14 and the Income tax return in May/June 2014
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In the blog section there was a report yesterday about the Deputy Mayor of Javea trying to take this issue on and try and get it reverted in some way. There does seem to be an attack on expat residents, as I think camposol highlighted, as this law is going to be mostly applicable to them. Hopefully, the group in Javea will raise a petition against it; and maybe it's not a fait accompli. Coupled with the idea of the Government stamping out holiday home rentals, they are making Spain less and less attractive to relatively wealthy foreigners (well, compared to some others who can't afford to buy property). There must be many foreigners who rely on some rental income in order to be able to stay in Spain. The two measures are going to have a very negative impact on the Spanish economy - this is why the Deputy Mayor in Javea is so against the asset declaration law.
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My account of moving to Spain. http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/olives.aspx"><img
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Roberto, just got round to reading your question to me. I not sure about Canada as I left when I was 18 and spent the next 5-years in the US whilst at Uni and my first job at a Phara Co in Indiana. I then moved to my present Co which is a Phara Co in Switzerland with research facilities around the world the one I've worked in for the past 30-years is in the South of France. As such we declare our worldwide wealth so have some insite into what governments can do once they have that information.
The company allows 4 months paid leave every 10 years, I saved mine as I prefered to work (research is very absorbing and you get to play with the best toys in the world) and as such have 1 full year on full pay. During this time the Company are closing te research facilities in France (valbonne and Annercy) and relocating back to Switzerland as they would have lost many of the senior members of the research teams due to the present French Tax laws which punish the high earners (we own a share of the lab produced gobal drugs patents).
Mine is just another view and might be a help newbies to Spain
So yes in France we have to declare our WW assets and earnings and yes we have some very high taxes and yes it is having an affect with companies, instutions and high net worth individuals leaving.
Appologies for not getting back to you immediately but I'm enjoying my time off (currently in Portugal on the Atlantic coast were the surf id fantastic) so am not usually sat at the computer or monitoring the smart phones.
Rossetti
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Rossetti, Thanks for getting back to us, and sorry for interupting your surfing!
You asked "why would anyone give the levels of detail stated in this thread to authorities...". Well, the simple answer is, we don't want to but it's the law, with harsh penalties for non-compliance (if discovered). If, like yourself, you are in a position to stay out of the system, then that's surely the best approach. Many of us don't have that option.
You also said "If any of you think that Spain has the capability to search for expat accounts or properties you are deluded", suggesting that you wouldn't bother with this declaration even if you were within the system, but then told us that "we declare our worldwide wealth (in France) so have some insite into what governments can do once they have that information". Pray, do tell! Maybe you do have something useful or interesting to contributre to this thread.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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Eggcup I really cannot understand how you can come to the conclusion that the new law is directed at foreigners. It applies to everyone equally.
The number of foreigners affected is almost certainly less than Spaniards, whilst probably the proportion of foreigners is likely to be greater as many have assets in their home countries.
That said most forefingers probably comply with the law and pay their dues (exception maybe people who come to Spain, post on forums and boast about how they avoid being legal). As such probably most foreigners will not find themselves at the wrong end of enquiries into failure to pay Patrimonio tax in past years. And thus most prosecuted will be Spaniards.
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There are some interesting articles on this in the freepapers and Costa Blanca News, and the general consensus is that this new law is a nightmare- intrusive,huge unfair disproportionate fines for minor mistakes., conflicting and sometimes inaccurate advice given. Many have stated they willl go back to the UK. others thinking of moving here will not now do so. Talk about killing the golden goose....
There was one letter saying anyone complying with this new law is stupid, and to ignore it!
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I saw that letter too, and will bet every asset I have over 50K that the writer doesn't have a pot to pi55 in. Rather like those with less than 100K in Cypriot banks scoffing at the foolishness of those with more - I'm alright Jack! I think it is naive to believe this law is not a poorly disguised attempt to target foreign residents. We are a politically irrelevant group as we cannot vote in national elections, so the fall out will be nil, and very few Spaniards will give a sh1t about us. I also think it does affect more foreigners than Spanish nationals. A huge number of expats have property and overseas based pensions that will come under scrutiny. In all my years here I have so far only met one Spaniard with assets overseas - and he intends to return to live in his apartment in Queensland ASAP because like many expats, he doesn't like the way things are going here. Most Spaniards I know have never even left the country, let alone bought property or invested overseas. Those that have gone abroad to work rarely return. The majority who could be affected are the fat cat politicians etc., who won't be affected anyway because they are corrupt to the core and have the right connections in Hacienda etc.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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Camposol
There was one letter saying anyone complying with this new law is stupid, and to ignore it!
Just as an academic point.
I am pretty sure that any oneany publishing such a letter (certainly in UK) could be charged with ‘Incitement’
Whilst many may think this could not be so, I would just say in passing that I contacted the Editor of the Daily Mail when it’s forum was publishing posts which said the McCann’s were involved in the disappearance of their child, and pointed out that the newspaper might be guilty of publishing a libel. The Editor said their legal team were confident that they were watertight. It will be recalled, they later paid compensation of half a million pounds for publishing those posts..
Roberto,
The majority who could be affected are the fat cat politicians etc., who won't be affected anyway because they are corrupt to the core and have the right connections in Hacienda etc.
This may prove to be so, and I can of course only a guess, but I will be very surprised not to see those very people at the head of those prosecuted.
I said a similar thing when some posters were confident that Chris Hulme and his wife would not be persecuted, and then when they were, that they would walk free.
Only time will tell
This message was last edited by johnzx on 05/04/2013.
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Hope you got your fair commission on that compensation - and that it's now sufficiently hidden away in a complex offshore trust somewhere so Hacienda can't get at it!
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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Do you mean prosecuted, not persecuted?
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Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group.
Prosecute to charge a person with a crime (tax evasion to the detriment of those who do pay) and thereafter pursue the case through trial on behalf of the government.
I’ll leave it to you to decide
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According to the press, this assets law is facing a backlash from ex pats, and in one area the Mayor is backing them up.There is talk of a petition to the EU courts.All this is unfortunately too late for us, but it will be good if the Hacienda realises that dispropportionate fines ,and having to reveal private information which could be open to misuse, may result in expats going back to UK, and dissuade others from coming here, thus robbing Spain of a vital source of money, is not to their advantage!
PS there seems to be confusion about pensions on this new assts form.Blevins Franks, in their FAQ's states that only pensions from annuities need be mentioned, if pot over 50,000 euros, or if it's less, but with other assets in the same category come to 50,000euros.
My accountant did not mention pensions on her list of assets that should be declared with this new law, but of course they are declared on the yearly tax return anyway. Interestingly she asks for details of crown pensions that are not taxable in Spain, so is it the case that the Hacienda should be aware of them anyway?
This message was last edited by camposol on 06/04/2013.
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This is another source of info.
http://jullastres.es/wordpress/?p=718
Camposol.
I went to presentation by a Spanish accountant a couple of days ago. He said paying into a pension fund was not declarable but the value of a pension fund which had become due for payment, whether being paid out or not, was declarable.
As it did affect me I did not make any notes on that point
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I have doing the draft for my declaration 'all day'.
Just have a few bits to add on Monday, and then to the gestor.
PS the lawyer who gave a presentation I went to the other day, said one can do the declaration on line and then (if the don't have 'digital signature' ) can download it and send / take it to Hacinda., Most present were surprised.
Anyone any info on that ?
This message was last edited by johnzx on 06/04/2013.
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johnx- there is obviously conflicting advice on the pensions issue. Blevins Franks, one of the biggest finacial advisors says in the FAQs that only pensions arising from an annuity need be declared on the assets form. As I said my acccountants list of requrements did not have pensions on it. With so much at stake, we are going to have the situations where people are going to be in the wrong purely because of the interpretation of the accountant. The guidelines to accountants must be very confusing!
How does one find out the value of the pension pot anyway-is it as easy as just phoning the provider?
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It's not the pension but the value of the pension pot, which I believe one is entited to know.
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