Abortion reform in Spain : Madness!

This is a subject that always evokes strong feelings. My own thoughts are that abortion in the case of rape, severe disability or life threatening to the mother should be allowed. I think the time limit should be reduced to 20 weeks. I'm sure when the debate re time limits was going on in the UK a couple of years ago there was evidence that a lot of abortions were being used as a form of contraception but I've not got time now to find it now.

Yes Poppyseed you are correct abortions were being used by some, if not many as a form of contraception because the young girls that were going for one knew how easy it has become here to get it on the NHS, or where ever they send you to, some even thought of it as a badge of honour that they could have them, educate them as you will but the actual facts prove otherwise.

All these people giving 'their own thoughts' about the matter.

It's no-one's bloody business but the woman concerned, and her partner's if she chooses to consult him (ie if he's not violent, drug-addicted or otherwise ruling himself out).

It amazes me how people express concern about the life of the non-sentient foetus while not caring about the life of the mother, nor whether the foetus, when it becomes sentient, will actually have much a life with parents who don't want it or can't cope with it. Don't these people have any idea of what bringing up a child involves? It's not something one should do unless one is absolutely ready to dedicate oneself to the child and put its needs above one's own for the next twenty years or so. Every child deserves to be wanted, by loving parents who are emotionally (and ideally financially) able to cope with it.

Once again: If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

All these people giving 'their own thoughts' about the matter.

It's no-one's bloody business but the woman concerned, and her partner's if she chooses to consult him (ie if he's not violent, drug-addicted or otherwise ruling himself out).

It amazes me how people express concern about the life of the non-sentient foetus while not caring about the life of the mother, nor whether the foetus, when it becomes sentient, will actually have much a life with parents who don't want it or can't cope with it. Don't these people have any idea of what bringing up a child involves? It's not something one should do unless one is absolutely ready to dedicate oneself to the child and put its needs above one's own for the next twenty years or so. Every child deserves to be wanted, by loving parents who are emotionally (and ideally financially) able to cope with it.

Once again: If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

Tell Spain that, they started it, for all you know it could have been a panel of women that did this in Spain, just because it goes against the grain or ethics don't mean that it's always a man that did it,  the folk on here just comment on it....Men and Women alike.

If men did get pregnant we would have an easy life, no work for years while the child is growing up, spending all the hardworking women's wages, little bit of cleaning here and their, telling her to get up in the night to feed the nipper because i have had the child all day,  my own pocket money from the state, nights out with the boys while the Lady stays in babysitting, get a divorce and have the house, and all of the working Ladies bank account, be kept for many years after that, nag her for working all the hours going to keep the family, nag her for sitting in front of the TV all night......Wow this would be great, bring it on. 

Baz1946 I think you're treading on dangerous ground!  I'm not even going to go into what is involved in bringing up a child as I suspect you already know and are just stirring!

Unless you have been in the position where you need or want an abortion I don't think you can say what is right and what is wrong.  I have never been in this position but I feel it would be along the lines of me saying to my sister when she had Breast Cancer, ' I know how you feel' or 'I know how I would react if I were told I had Breast Cancer'!  Of course I wouldn't know and I can't even begin to know how it would feel to have to make the decision to have an abortion.  I don't think I could but for some people contraception doesn't work  I have a friend who conceived twice whilst on the Pill and because she couldn't have an abortion ended up with 5 children!  Yes, it was her choice and they worked hard to give them what they needed but it isn't what she had planned.

Spain should think about raising the legal age for both sexual relations and marriage.  I was shocked when I discovered how low the age limit was!  It doesn't stop everyone but 13 is just plain wrong and most children of that age are not emotionally developed enough to cope with it.

I'm sure alot may disagree with me but no one can say that it is wrong to abort.  Each case is individual.

Not treading dangerous ground for me as you put it, after all it was you that said "If men could get pregnant then abortion would be sacrament" meaning in not so many words and saying in another way round that all men could care less, an opinion that crops up a lot when Women are talking about Men.

As it happens i think that to have an abortion is solely down to the person...The Women...No one else, if that's what she wants then go ahead, she has to live with the consequences, medical or otherwise. And i do know of a few who have had them so i am a bit familiar with the before and after effects.

I didn't know Spain had such a low age of 13 years old, that was a surprise, perhaps a throw back of age old laws that never got looked at because the problem it caused was kept quite and low key.

The second part of my post was tongue in cheek and if anyone took it serious then they should lighten up, but i have noticed that this forum don't do much tongue in cheek.

Fair comment Baz1946.  By the way it wasn't me that said if men got pregnant it would be sacrement!  Unless you have experienced something in life, whatever it maybe, its almost impossible to guage how you would feel in that same situation.  My husband and I were totally shocked when we found out the legal age for marriage and sexual relations in Spain!

To be fair to everyone, maybe this wasn't the right post to be 'tongue in cheek' anyway?

BAz,

           I didn't know Spain had such a low age of 13 years old, that was a surprise, perhaps a throw back of age old laws that never got looked at because the problem it caused was kept quite and low key.

Nothing old about the law, as I said in my earlier post "About 15 years ago Spain’s  Parliament refused to change the age, then 12 for girls 13 for boys.

Fair comment Baz1946. By the way it wasn't me that said if men got pregnant it would be sacrement! Unless you have experienced something in life, whatever it maybe, its almost impossible to guage how you would feel in that same situation. My husband and I were totally shocked when we found out the legal age for marriage and sexual relations in Spain!

To be fair to everyone, maybe this wasn't the right post to be 'tongue in cheek' anyway?

Then i stand corrected for thinking it was you....I am a presumptuous git.

Why not be tongue in cheek with many things?  Living life is tough, bad things happen to nice people...Nice things happen to bad people.  I would never make fun of other peoples disabilities.

Ok then Baz1946 maybe we should change your name to presumptuous git!  I quite agree that in many things we should be less serious but maybe in this sort of thread where it is pretty sensitive we should be serious?  I'm all for having fun, yes really, but in the correct circumstances!  Hey ho.....

No, the abortion-as-sacrament quote means that if men had any idea what they were talking about with regards to either pregnancy or abortion, ie if they actually had to go through either, they'd shove through legislation making it an inalienable right quick-smart.

The sheer amount of them that parrot these stupid myths about pregnancy AND abortion being a walk in the park, that bang on about abortion being used as contraception (yes, because getting one is so easy) and - vilest of all - go on about people (that is, women) 'taking responsibility for the consequences of their actions', as if having an abortion isn't doing exactly that, and as if punishment for supposed irresponsibility is a good reason to bring another unwanted child into the world.

As for being 'tongue-in-cheek'; again, you wouldn't be if it actually affected you in any real way, but it doesn't.

No, the abortion-as-sacrament quote means that if men had any idea what they were talking about with regards to either pregnancy or abortion, ie if they actually had to go through either, they'd shove through legislation making it an inalienable right quick-smart.

The sheer amount of them that parrot these stupid myths about pregnancy AND abortion being a walk in the park, that bang on about abortion being used as contraception (yes, because getting one is so easy) and - vilest of all - go on about people (that is, women) 'taking responsibility for the consequences of their actions', as if having an abortion isn't doing exactly that, and as if punishment for supposed irresponsibility is a good reason to bring another unwanted child into the world.

As for being 'tongue-in-cheek'; again, you wouldn't be if it actually affected you in any real way, but it doesn't.

Can i suggest to you that before you start to read the riot act to me read the bit that i posted that i said was tongue in cheek, it had nothing at all to do with women having an abortion,   some can make anything out to be what they want it to be, which is what you have done to meet your own ends.

The best thing some women can do is not to tar all men with the same brush.

I definitely don't tar all men with the same brush, I assure you! However, when it comes to abortion I'm quite happy to say that men, as a group, really, seriously need to sit down, shut up and stop telling women what they can and can't do with their own bodies. You can choose to take that personally if you like, or you could choose to open your eyes to the reality of women's lives, constantly being dictated to by men, and try and empathise a little with us, and perhaps imagine how life would be if you were forced to spend forty-odd years of your life either totally occupied with child-bearing or constantly worried that you might have to make those choices.

Some men manage that, but unfortunately they're in a very non-vocal minority. Most either join in the foetus-fetishising or simply wash their hands of the whole business and leave women to bear their entire burden of fighting for the reproductive freedom that has been shown to benefit the entire community.

I definitely don't tar all men with the same brush, I assure you! However, when it comes to abortion I'm quite happy to say that men, as a group, really, seriously need to sit down, shut up and stop telling women what they can and can't do with their own bodies. You can choose to take that personally if you like, or you could choose to open your eyes to the reality of women's lives, constantly being dictated to by men, and try and empathise a little with us, and perhaps imagine how life would be if you were forced to spend forty-odd years of your life either totally occupied with child-bearing or constantly worried that you might have to make those choices.

Some men manage that, but unfortunately they're in a very non-vocal minority. Most either join in the foetus-fetishising or simply wash their hands of the whole business and leave women to bear their entire burden of fighting for the reproductive freedom that has been shown to benefit the entire community.

Well lets now brush over the bit where i told you to read my post correctly about tongue in cheek, seeing as you care not to answer that bit.

I don't see how on earth you can say that men tell women what they do with their own bodies when it comes to an abortion, suggesting that it's only men that do this, have you thought that perhaps the reason is because on average their are more men doctors then women, and as you know if you were to have an abortion then you do not have to talk to a man about this,  fact is most women going through this are advised by women on the correct course of action to take.

 Women's lives constantly being dictated to by men,  your having a laugh, i employ quite a few women, visit my business and see how they treat me, i get told all the time if i am doing something wrong, by the girls, what do i know i only think i own the business, i have been told on many times to make the tea "We are to busy...you do it" do i complain? do i ever, i employed them to do good work and they do it.   Any wife will tell the hubby to cut the grass, paint the wall, take the kids out, we get told what and how to do it by women all the time, trouble is you women do it so much that half the time you don't know your doing it.

The biggest reason women are "Being dictated to men" is cant you see that if you stay at home to run the home, have kids, etc etc, someone has to pay for this by going to work, make it clear in the first place if you don't want kids, you want a career, then go out and get one, you do have a choice in the matter, this is not the 18th century now.

Where on earth do you get 40 odd years totally occupied with child-bearing. One a year...40 kids...I don't think so... We have 4 kids, all a couple of years or so apart, adults now,  i suppose all in all it has taken up less then 15-20 years of our life, our choice.

I take nothing personally, and my eyes are wide open to the problems that women can have, but going back to what this thread is all about a women has a choice...Not talking about rape...Say NO mean No, use contraception him or her, don't have sex.