Brexit effect

That may be acer but TM did not create this mess, Dave jacked and did a runner, that’s what I call statesmanship.

We simply voted out, so either get out or throw the towel in and stay.

Another referendum or another commons vote, Humphrey would be proud of us ‘’Play it again Sam’’.

Personally I think Dave was more than a little sly to do a runner.  He always seemed a bit wet to me - too keen to keep everyone happy.

TM seems to want to be another "iron lady" but...may she "rust in peace" soon.

Decisive action is needed and for me, the only sensible way is another refererundum.

A year or so folk were saying that was "undemocratic" and would provoke "rioting on the streets" but there is no other option that will bring an end to this farce that avoids far worse.

The most important aspect is to have transparency to the detail, to honestly look at that detail and then decide.

The problem has been that when the detail is identified by those who have analysed and provided transparency to their analyses, if it doesn’t suit a political stance, then they either ignore it, or try to undermine it.

Patrick Minford and group identified an error in the financial modelling system when the treasury first came back with their figures ( which some interpreted, probably understandably, as fear mongering). These were actually proven to be correct and the treasury then amended their modelling accordingly. So credibility was gained from these economists who still to this day are providing great detail to substantiate their claims. Sadly little of this detail appears to be covered in the media or by Parliamentarians, which then begs the question why?

Lawyers for Britain have also been providing great detail in their legal analysis and this is where again the detail is not being made fully transparent for proper debate across the media and to Parliamentarians ( or they are closing their eyes to it for political reasons or sensationalist reporting). 

The problem now appears to be that according to these highly detailed analyses, that the deal being put forward by Theresa May is compromising the UKs ability to negotiate with the EU, plus they are suggesting that trading on WTO rules, without the shackles of a withdrawal agreement will leave the UK in a far better financial position. They quoted as their conclusion the following

”The positive advantages of leaving the EU without a trade agreement and without a withdrawal or transition agreement are enormous. Given the Prime Minister’s strange decision to abandon of any attempt to negotiate a free trade agreement with the EU, it is the only way forward which fulfills the decision of the British people to leave the European Union. It hands back control and it leads to huge economic benefits.”

It seems incredulous that decisions are being made without looking in absolute detail at the realities and respected analyses going forward, but instead using political mantra to decide the UKs fate. This is no doubt why people are so disillusioned with the political establishment on both sides of the channel if we are honest.

It’s time to insist that economic forecasts and analyses are taken seriously and properly debated, in the hope that trust and respect can be restored, but with a view to finding fair trading solutions and protection of rights outside the EU, to respect the referendum, that can be of mutual benefit  between the EU and UK,  without playing crazy political games that so negatively impact citizens.

For goodness sake... if other trading nations can achieve this with the EU, then why not the UK?

Everyone should be extremely wary of politically motivated divisive motives that demonstrate little respect for detailed intellectual analyses that require calm and rational debate. Parliament will continue to lose the respect of its citizens if they fail to prove themselves able and willing to do so.

Ads with respect could you cut it down a bit please, your posts are enough to put a glass eye to sleep.

Acer another referendum is the hopeful escape route for the remainders.

Mickyfinn ‘’most remainders will I believe accept the result’’. You have more faith in Tommy 2 Face than me.

Angeleyes - I have to say that I found Ads's comments fine and useful, even though I don't necessarily agree with them.

I cannot be labelled a "remainer"!  I voted to leave, based on bum information!

Accepting a "no deal" departure is extremely risky and amonst other things leaves the Irish border problem unanswered.  For me that is a complete no no - it may cost lives.  This was not flagged when I voted.

Without any doubt the electorate voted blindly on incorrect information.  If they knew the real options they would have voted differently.  So that vote must be treated as "void", as it would in contract law.  A repeat referendum is now necessary to establish the real will of the people, who now know the true facts.

Angeleyes, you gain no respect when you personalise in that way. The devil is in the detail so please stop trying to bully your way to limiting others postings. Part of the problem is a failure to look to the detail.

TM deal has been voted down.  It is the only one on offer and it will not fly.

No deal has been voted down.

I don't understand why Article 50 has not already been revoked.  Yes there will be, as Leavers like to tell us, "some short term pain in the form of disgruntled citizens" but by going down this route it solves the problem we currently have and gets us back on track to sort out all the other issues in the UK without breaking it up.

I honestly don't see how any MP can with good conscience do anything else.  And yes, they will be risking their seat at the next GE but that is the case right now anyway.

If this was done I can assure you that it would take a nano second before leavers would be crying for another vote/referendum.

I wonder in all good conscience can it be said that MPs have been fully aware of the economic details and legal analyses before they voted? Have they had fully informed debate on the actual detail?  Or have they followed political mantra and blithe generalisations?

Ads I was only trying to give you some good advice, most readers (not all) prefer posts to be brief and to the point. Long rambling and excessive detail is off putting and many readers may just pass your vital posts by.

Angeleyes, with respect you should keep your opinions to yourself. 

There is no compulsion for you to read any post.

The seriousness of the situation and the expected no deal exit next week will impacts British residents in Spain considerably. It's already causing me some personal difficulties since my healthcare rights require renewal and the likelihbood is it may not happen until it becomes clear if the Spanish authorties will continue to provide it.

I know the PM in Spain has made friendly noises but that needs to translate to the beauracrats sitting in their offices and who process the paper. So far its proving difficult since they expect these rights to change. Rights are not now being automatically renewed as before for Brits.

If you try to get medical care without valid proof of being in the system post no deal will I or my family be treated? Maybe, maybe not. Will i have to pay? The UK have said they will pay for 12 months post no deal but not longer. How will that translate at the coal face?

I rely on the EHIC when I spend the summers in France. That's out the window as well. It's getting close to to the stage that my limited options from April might only be getting on a plane and visiting the nearest UK hospital. 

when May's latest attempt falls (unless she attaches a people's vote to it) next week, parliament will take control. They will go for a longer extension with either  a GE or another people's vote. That will be granted on Thursday by an emergency meeting of the EU. May will resign. The tories are unlikely to go for a GE because they'll get their arses handed to them on a plate

Healthcare in Spain 'free and universal' to all residents, legal or not. That includes British.

FREE and universal State healthcare for everyone in Spain has now been officially restored after years of undocumented migrants being denied all bar emergency treatment. You might have a few problems with jobs worth Maria at reception who does not like the new law or is not up to date, but it is the law, any difficulties call the police.

https://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/30942/healthcare-in-spain-free-and-universal-to-all-residents-legal-or-not

Think Spain are a major sponsor of EOS and No 1 for Spanish property.

Kavanagh.  Glad to see you have reminded all about that item which is dated Sept 2018

Although I have brought the info to the attention of several people I do know anyone who has been able to obtain free cover since it was first announced as being available to all.   I should be grateful to hear from anyone who has, and the MO they used.

A couple of years ago an American friend of mine obtained free cover under an earlier offer. 

Looks as though the parliamentarians have taken control

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47652071

Hope it’s not been hijacked by automated bots!

 It will be interesting to see if Perrypowers wish is granted. 

Yes John, free healthcare for all is the law, but why should Spanish nationals running the system care if the law is implemented or you die at the hospital entrance.

Ads, who verifies the million signatures?

Good question Kavanagh.

Jobsworths rule the world Kavanagh. You can't get past them when they make a judgment your a persona non grata. This week I've been bounced from one to the other through no fault other than trying to renew our Tarjeta Sanitario. They know somethings up for Brits and they are making life difficult. 

Post no deal Brexit it will be very much worse.

Which area is that, Mickey? My card was refused at the pharmacy last week and the lady said the strip on the back had failed. I took the old one to the Rojales medical centre and they issued me a new one there and then. No problems and I now have one of those red ones that are valid all over Spain, not just in Comunidad Valenciana.

Just out of interest Mickyfinn, why did your tarjeta sanitaria need "renewing"? I wasn't aware they had an expiry date.

Just in case anyone hasn't got the link: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584