Any ideas of how to get from Malaga Airport to Cherbourg France PLEASE?????

Better hadn't rain as my glass will overflow................. and yes I've had similar negative thoughts but I've enough experience to balance them out with what appears to be happening, and if PW were in the shit then MM2 would not be happening

I'll tell you what if it doesn't rain tomorrow it will definately rain Wednesday!!

 

Shampers, 
Thanks for that. But why are PW seemingly pulling out some facilities. We bought where we did because the hype suggested that we would not have to walk long distances, as there were local centres. I appreciate that the walk might do me good as well, but there is the element of convenience for local shopping etc. I want my glass to be half full as well,but as somebody who has bought numerous off plan developments, and have made a tidy profit on all,  I am still a little worried that the strategy that PW seem to be adopting is one of contraction.

 Kelvyn and Lisa

Thanks lisa
I like you am concerned, both because of the early completion when none of the facilities are in place,which were sold to me in the first place and the fact that there are so many changes which are not for technical reasons but in an attempt to save money. I feel that there is no guarantee that any of the promised facilities will materialise and pw attitude to so many peoples obvious difficulties in securing funds due to the credit crunch seems unfair as they are clearly having difficulties themselves. The fact that they are leaning on people to complete early and threatening breach of contract is surely not in their best interests in these dificult tiimes.

Kelvyn & Lisa,

It is always nice when we make an investment that generates a profit and I guess thats what a lot of people hoped to do in the short term by buying off plan at Condado ( I think we can all assume that this is now not going to happen).  I appreciate that by changing and removing some facilities this will have annoyed some people however, as has been said on other posts I would rather PW built one Foro that will be busy than have 2/3 lying  empty.  

I do not see this as contraction but as sensible planning 

In my opinion we have bought a property on what PW are trying to make their flagship resort and in the long run our investment will  hopefully generate us a profit.  

I am certainly glad that I have bought a property with a company that has the presence and name awareness of PW, and can also attract one of the worlds best known golf names to design its golf courses, and this has  certainly given me some reasurrance at this time. 

As you can guess I am of the glass half full opinion 

Regards
Alison

As we didn't buy for a short term investment, we are also of the glass half full brigade. As we have said on other threads way down the page, while we are a little disappointed, we understand the logic of the combined town centers. It must be disappointing for those of you that have ended up losing a swimming pool, don't know if you had an explanation for that and I would be upset if that had happened to us, as we will be if our pergola turns out on the wrong side. Have emailed PW to ask but haven't had a reply yet. Don't know if it would be of interest to anyone that has issues about the shortcomings of PW but, on the Hacienda Requelme forum, they are having more or less the same discussions and are looking to take action against PW. This is under the HR town centre thread, it also leads to another thread under recent photos, which is very interesting reading.

I can understand why a lot of people are concerned, but I can also understand why Polaris are pushing on completions.  I am sure there are many who bought properties in the hope of a quick profit and are now desperate to get out, as in the current environment they are facing potential losses.  Polaris will be dealing with many of these investors trying to avoid or delay completions, as such they will be suspicious of anyone trying to delay or avoid completion - even where they have quite valid concerns.  Polaris are getting on with the building, and of course want to get their money as quickly as possible when they are complete - that is basic finance.

As for the facilities I will be interested to see how busy the new Foro is - if it is overcrowded then clearly polaris need to rethink the decision to merge, but I agree with Shampers that it will be better to have one busy site than 2 quieter ones (I am in the fortunate position of being close to the new Foro and do understand concerns of those with an extended walk!) As long as what we get is of the quality I have seen elsewhere on Polaris developments, and the golf course work continues as it appears to be going, I will be very happy with my purchase.

Ted

Lisa / Kelvyn & Sartom

I can understand your views. I have aired these views off line with some people and balanced them with how I have tried to balance them below.

The UK property market lags the US and Europe lags a bit further. The view today is that the US may have bottomed out, and a bit of good news is coming out again, the UK has not yet bottomed, nor has Europe, but it will, and then it will come back again, so you may have to sit tight for a while on this one - Spain has the closest property/mortgage market in Europe to the UK.

 If you're buying for 'business' reasons and looking to turn a quick profit then you takes your risk. If I bought shares to turn a quick profit then I wish I'd not bought any in the last 5 years,  however I'm glad I invested in the ones between 5 and 15 years ago.

Buying anything for profit/investment carries a risk, and yes the property markets are currently trying to find a satisfactory equilibrium in Spain and in the UK - they haven't bottomed yet, but there is pent up demand and as soon as the financial markets settle in line with house prices then that demand will be unleashed again.

As for amenities on developments then they usually come last, same in the UK (unless the planning permissions carry a s106 on them that something has to be done before something else). As for Condado i think the fact that pools and gardens are complete, that a shop has opened, that the entrance looks good and the roads (roads are a massive cost in a project - vast sums are sunk below ground in any project) around the site are well advanced, the Sports Centre (J6) is taking shape along with the golf course is all good news for us. The fact that funders have given them another €250m to crack on with MM2 was great news to me as the funders must be happy with the current projects to do so.

As for enforced completions then am afraid PW are the corporate face of a business that is run on numbers, and the fact that they are enforcing completions is one of those things. My comment to anyone would always be 'don't commit if you don't have the means to carry it through as you're taking a massive risk' and i know circumstances change, but if developers start listening to hard luck stories (no matter how genuine) then they would end up failing to meet their financial arrangements with their funders and jeopardise future projects - they have to be seen to be tough at completion time.

As for the planned Foros, i think PW have learnt from La Torre & MM1 where many facilities just aren't fully utilised so they have cut back, yes its cost cutting, but doesn't mean they won't do something in the future when punter numbers increase (the new airport will have a massive impact, but that should have opened this year - now likely to be 2010/11).

Condado is a 10 year, 20,000 home project (2nd biggest town in Murcia region when complete). Jardines, Naranjos & Golf Suites are c15% of this number (i think). Retailers, restaurants etc are going to want to be there.

Alison,
Do you think that the now relocated foro is going to be busy when you have serious competion across the road! I think that i'm more likely to spend money locally if the facility is there than get a bus/bike to the town centre.

Kelvyn & Lisa

Great thread this by the way, this is what forums are about............... opinions of the ''mine are right / yours are wrong'' type, with everyone having 'mine'................

Hi Shampers

You are so right....  This is an open forum and everyone has their own views whether right or wrong!!

Kelvyn & Lisa

 

Kelvyn and Lisa - I don't understand what you mean by competition across the road? Do you mean Oasis?

Hi Martyn & June,

Yes, I do mean the oasis. We all know what Polaris prices are like, if i'm going to have to walk a mile and the rest  to the nearest shop then an extra few steps to the oasis wont be too bad! Hey but we all like a bit of healthy competiton. 

Kelvyn & Lisa

Shampers, 

Helen works in the finance industry in the UK and it is struggling at the moment, but as you rightly said it is projected to bottom out and get better. Spain will surely follow suit. 
 Your comments in your posting are very sensible and welcomed.
We all know PW seem to ride rough shod over their clients however I would make this point- 
 If you think PW are bad just look around at the complete horror stories associated with other "reputable" builders particularly in Spain and Portugal where people have lost every penny. I personally know two people who bought off plan paid extensive deposits and have lost every penny.
We went with PW because of their stability, experience and track record of "producing the goods"
I am sure they do not make these changes etc lightly, their whole companies future rests on their reputation. 
If I have one criticism of PW it would be their lack of ability to communicate information to us.
If they communicated things properly instead of the chinese whisper approach then I think everyone would be more understanding when changes are made.

Phil & Helen


This message was last edited by stonephil on 8/12/2008.

I don't think there's anything 'sinister' in PW putting pressure on people to complete as some are suggesting. Of course they want to generate as much cash as possible and as quickly as possible to fund the future planned delvelopments. It's not rocket science and they are a business after all, not a charity. It's naive to think otherwise.

I suspect most people who are getting cold feet are those who bought with the sole intention of selling before or just after completion and making a quick and easy buck. Obviously that's not to happen just now, but surely you must have known when you bought that this was at least a possibility? The property boom wasn't going to last forever. Didn't you even think about a plan B if that happened, rather than panicing now? 

As for the 'early' completion dates, those who have been cought out obviously didn't ask enough questions when buying, or were poorly advised. My experience when purchasing was that the PW rep we were dealing with didn't offer a lot of information, but when asked she answered honestly and as has turned out, accurately.

We always bought with the intention of keeping this as a long term investment, and while I won't say I'm entirely happy with the current situation I'm certainly not losing any sleep over it. I remain confident that in years to come this will turn out to be a sound investment, and in the meantime I'm more than happy to sit on it and enjoy cheap Spanish holidays in the sun.  

Count in the 'glass half full' camp. :)

My glass is full to overflowing, did my research, covered all the "what ifs" and had Plan A,B,C,D.... etc...just in case.......As has been said so many times by others, you shoud have been prepared and researched for every eventuality.......Its a lot of cash to risk without having a contingency plan so all investers should know what 'Could' happen.

Just my own honest opinion

Good luck to all

Carol

 

Hi All

I think Shampers and others have stated the case for glass half full admirably and if I can, I would like to hopefully top it up a little.

Many of you have heard me criticise PW on the forum about the changes they have made, poor communication, bullying tactics and so on, and I will keep on doing so. This for us is the first time we have taken any financial risk outside the UK, which is exactly what it is, and we have been very nervous about if we have made the right decision in buying in Spain and in particular from PW.

I like you have worked hard all my working life to be able to have my small bit of life in the sun and wish it to be perfect. However since making the decision to buy, the bottom has fallen out of the property market which gives everyone the jitters, we arrived at the point we started looking for a way out even if it cost us money, then last May we went out to see progress and we where both blown away by the standard of the build and luxury appearance of the complex, and that even whilst still a building site. This definitely not a builder cutting standards, Yes they like us are now having to make sure the money comes in to pay the bills and make sure they don’t waist resources on projects now that can be done further down the road, when things improve, as they will. I remember the property crash in the 80s just after buying a new build house and spent the next few years with my house in negative equity, but when I moved from that house 3 years ago I was quite happy thank you. Condado is a ten year project and a massive commitment by PW and its financers, it is so big they can’t allow it to fail in the same way the UK Government couldn’t allow Northern Rock to fail. I can’t wait to get my key and in a few years time just like last time look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

Phil

AND SO SAY ALL OF US!!

Spot on Phil.

Playing the property market purely for short-term profit is a risky business. I'm sure some of those who are complaining on here about PW would have been quite happy to complete their purchases if circumstances had been different and they could cash in on a quick profit. I suspect SOME of those who are siting the planning changes, removal of pools and the pergoda being at the back as a reason for trying to pull out are simply using that as a smokescreen for the real reason.

Good luck to those wanting to form a group to challenge PW in court. I bear you no grudge or ill will, but I'm finding it hard to have any sympathy for you. You gambled and lost, that's life.

Cappielow,

Hope your reply was not aimed at us.....

If so, I would like to put you straight on a few matters:-

1. We bought on Condado as a long term investment/holiday home. We did NOT buy to flip or to sell on completion to make a few quid!!

2. The property boom was of no consideration to us when we bought this property.

3. We do NOT need a plan B as we have the cash!!

4. We DID ask enough questions when buying and even last month were told that completion would be very early 2009.

5. Of course we are complaining about changes, Haven't most people!!
     We bought our place because of location, not too far from what was the local Foro as we have a disabled son.

6. The reason we are complaining about the completion date is that our son has to have major surgery in Oct and it is just not    acceptable that last month we were told early 2009 for completion and last week they told us sorry! we've brought it forward to oct. Not really a good time for us! (but hey, as you point out PW is a business, not a charity).

Did you see the model at HQ?
Did you get the tour?
Did you get brochures?
Were you told that there were going to be 2 local town centres?

We did and we bought our property on the basis of all this. We are not stupid, we know that buying off plan changes can happen and this is usually due to technical or planning issues, not cost cutting.

We are just like the majority of you and understand that it would be better to have 1 busy town centre than 2 ghost towns but  we need a local shop for day to day provisions without having to get the car/bike. Pw at this stage will not commit to at least having a local shop where the old Foro was supposed to be on Naranjos. Why?

Please dont assume that you know other peoples circumstances and just for the record we certainly have not gambled and lost!!!

Lisa