Is 4 years a long enough period for court case to be dealt with? or is it not?

This post is to flag up a major problem we encountered last week when we arrived to see our apartment for the first time and I would not wish it to affect anyone else if they can avoid it by taking action now.

Firstly, it only concerns the 1st floor 2 bed apartments

We chose an apartment with the roof pergola located at the front so that we would have good views of the garden and would be able to see the kids in the pool when sat at the front of the roof terrace.  This would be the left hand apartment of the "pairs" as viewed outside from the front.  All the brochures, the models in PW´s sales office, the DVD and the plans in our contract showed this configuration in the same way ie. left apartment, pergola at the front, right apartment, pergola at the back.  Also, when we received our habitation certificate with the little photo on it, it showed an apartment with the pergola at the front, just as we had expected (we´re in garden 4).

The problem is this:  Our roof area has been constructed in reverse with the pergola at the back meaning we have highly restricted views of the gardens and the shade that would created by an awning on the pergola is now limited to the very rear of the roof (our roof front faces roughly SW).  At no time did we receive any notification from PW confirming there would be a significant change in construction.  The adjoining roof terrace now has their pergola at the front which is the apartment we passed on in favour of ours.  The problem has affected two sides of Garden 4, the north and east sides.  The south and west sides are constructed in the "correct" way.

Our snagging company did not pick up the problem but, in fairness to them, they were looking for minor issues not significant construction differences.  They did send us some photos of the roof, which we queried at the time, but because the snagging appointment was on Friday afternoon and our solicitor completed via POA 10am Monday morning there was no time for us to resolve the query.

We are incredibly pissed off about this as it is not what we paid for!

We immediately contacted our solicitor to report the problem and, cutting a very long story short, she contacted PW whose reponse was basically "as you have completed there is nothing we can do".  We now find ourselves facing a potential legal battle with PW for some kind of resolution.

All I would say to anyone who is about to complete on a 2 bed is get absolute confirmation of what your roof area looks like before completion and if there is any doubt - delay or cancel the completion until you know for sure and you are happy with what you are getting!

Granted, some people will not be bothered by this in the same way we are and some people who´s pergolas are now at the front may feel they have benefited!

I am going to push PW as far as I can on this and would be very interested to hear from anyone in the same situation.  It will be a tough job alone but if we all register our complaints there is a better chance they may take some action.

We are in Spain for the next week and a half and will only have limited internet access so apologies if it takes me a while to respond to any replies.

On the positive side, the gardens do look good and the overall image of the resort when you drive in is very impressive. The supermarket in garden 6 has now opened too.

Good luck to all left side 2 bedders!

Regards
Tim

Hi Tim
So sorry to hear of your dissappointment regarding the pergola.
 Thanks for pointing this out to us all, as we all have certain reasons of why we have chosen a particular apartment, and when that reason has been changed it is understandable that you are going to piss you off!!!
I hope you can get somewhere with your fight, I'm on 8 and if it was my apartment I would doe the same.
Nice to see you still have a cheery and positive attitude!

Tim

We are due to snag on ours tomorrow with completion next  Thurs. Went up to have a  look around yesterday and the 1st thing I noticed was that our Pergola had moved to the back. Jardin 5. I originally wanted the one at the front for similar reasons to yourself so we could have a table there while watching kids outside at the pool or just playing in the garden. Hadn't really thought about the sun and the neighbours pergola possibly casting a shadow over our roof terrace. I'll be having a better look tomorrow to see if it will affect us more and the direction of the sun.

We are on La Torre at the moment. So could possibly meet up sometime. Out here for another 10 days. Will let you know how it goes. 

I checked our contract last night after seeing it and it states the Pergola as per plans which is what you have said, it also states it as being a type A property, which I took as all being the same ie. all the left hand sides type A right hand sides opposite hand type B. 

How did the habitation certificate get passed was another question when its not as the plans? Is this certificate now null & void cos its incorrect?

Hi Tim,
             Wise words. Sorry to hear about that when most people are feeding back nice positive reports of thier completion experiences. It re-inforces my intention that if at all humanly possible, I will be in attendance at the snagging process prior to signing anything or delegating POA. While the people you entrust to take on these vital tasks for you may be suitably qualified and have your best interests at heart, nobody will ever scrutinise your dwelling in the same way that you would having layed out hard earned savings and taking on a commintment for X number of years. I would advise anyone to think long and hard before becoming too complacement and thinking 'everything in the garden is rosey'. Like Tim says, he is now burdened with the extra stress of taking on Polaris legally if they decide to be awkward and refuse to offer him a move or a solution to his satisfaction. Like you say Tim, you have pre-selected your plot for these very reasons and it is a total conflict to one of your primary stipulations.
I have chosen my plot (3 bedroom) in a specific location because of the orientation, garden position, and relationship to adjacent property for which I believe the higher price bracket reflected. If these key considerations are radically different to what we contracted to< I will be signing nothing.
Remember, stick out for what you payed for - if we all roll over Polaris will have an easy ride (e.g. increasing prices for those that have a legitimate reason for asking to be re-located).

Regards,

Being in a type 'A' apartment I too chose the particulat apartment because the pergola was at the front so that we would have a view over the garden rather than the parking area at the back.  I had noticed that some of the pergola's had seemed to swap sides in the pictures that had been posted but dismissed it as I couldn't tell which garden they were in or if they had been 'planned' that way around.    I've emailed PW to ask about the pergola position in my apartment, but I doubt if it will do any good if it is in the wrong place as there's no way they would want to rebuilt it now.  But then the position of the pergola is in the plans in the contract, ( I think, will have to recheck when I get home ) so I could be in for an arguement if its wrong....

Anyone got any photo's of Naranjos garden 1.

Phil

Hi Tim,

We completed last Wednesday and I have just checked the habitation certificate. 

Ours has got a archive photo of an apartment, not our actual appartment on it.
It was even taken before the apartments were numbered. 
So I do not think you can take much notice of this to help you.
I think you have two main issues in your arguement. 
Firstly I cannot see anywhere on our contract were it states which way round the pergola will be and
Your second and biggest problem is that you have already completed and in doing so, either personally or by POA to your solicitor, you have accepted that you are happy with your purchase.

I really hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction but I think you have a real fight on your hands. By the sounds of it you are going to be one of a number of people in the same situation.

Damn, rats and blast.

Just got home and looked at contract, apparently for the first real time, and noticed that the pergola's at the back   (Stonephil: it's marked in red on the plans on the last page )
Also got a reply from PW pointing this out, makes a change for them to get something right.
Wish I'd bothered to look at it properly in the past year, preferably before I'd signed, as all the info we'd seen and the model at the site had it at the front.

Ho Hum.

Phil
P.S I'm a type D.


This message was last edited by ptan on 7/29/2008.

Having read th posts regarding the pergolas I checked our snagging pictures and low and behold our pergola is to the front and our apartment is on the right hand side. It looks as if they have all be swapped around.  We are in jardin 10.  It ws never an issue with us where the pergola was but now that it has been menioned it probably is preferable to be overlooking the pool and jardin areas so we seemed to have scored on this one.

Linda

Thanks Linda, that's it make me feel better

Phil

I'll check our plans now....but if other threads are anything to go by, you will have to accompany the children at the pool so there is no benefit front or back from that perspective :)

Hi

I've read on these threads from (Mike & Dawn) and also ptan that the appartments are lettered ie'; A or B. On checking my contract mine is shown as C. Does anyone know what all this means, are there any differances..?

By the way, my pergoda is at the rear and it didn't seem to be a issue until I read this thread so not sure if this will be a big deal until I sit myself down on the roof.

Phil

I had noticed on various photo's that the pergola's weren't in the orientation we expected but had put that down to not knowing which garden and sometimes which angle the picture was taken from. As said elsewhere on the thread we selected our apartment for various reasons one of which was to have the pergolas over looking the garden rather than the car park. However having seen these other photo's I did wonder if we would arrive and find ours had moved but thought there'd be little we could do as it may be part of the 'off plan' changes we dont seem to be able to do anything about. As we've now seen photo's of Jardine 8 it seems we're okay with the pergola but given the 6000 euro's it seems people have been quoted to move to another garden over the pool issue it seems Polaris may hold all of the cards on this one.

Cant find anything on our contract about type A, B or even C apartments- any pointers to where that is mentioned?

I've just this minute recieved our snagging report and photos from Emma at Snagit, and the pergola is right where we expected it to be, at the back.  We're on jardin 8.  

Got a bit of a suprise having kids playground right outside though!  Don't remember that on plan

At the end of the contract there should be, or at least there is in mine, a plan of the apartment on this it says type A, B, C OR D.

Phil

Found it now. These plans have ended up being kept separate as we initially showed everyone the layout. Having looked again I can see we are a type A but whether that means anything more than right or left apartment who can say?

 

Hi Tim & All

When we agreed to buy our apartment we also chose an apartment with the roof pergola located at the front so that we would have good views of the garden and pool area rather than the car park.

I am now concerned about the location of our pergola as when I visited PW Homestile last May we asked about roof furniture and the information the sales person gave us seemed to imply that our pergola was at the back of the roof and not the front, at the time I just considered this was due to this person not being very knowledgeable and hadn’t given it another though till know.

I have now sent PW Customer Services an email asking for confirmation of the pergola location. I have looked at my contract plan and it is shown at the front so I will see if PW confirm this

Tim, I am grateful to you for the informing about this issue and sympathise with your position. This is only my personal opinion but even though you have now completed and as you did this by POA, would you not be able to say that:

1. Polaris world should have informed you about this material change to your contract
2. Your Lawyer should have ensured that when completing for you they should have ensured that the property has been handed over in line with that shown in your contract.

The snagging survey you had done was just that, and not a structural surveyor or a survey to ensure that the property conformed to the contract. 

Hope this helps and good look.
Phil

Have got my beady eyes on this forum all the time now as we are so close to completing, when i came across this thread.
Could not believe it I am in Jardine 8 now 9. Got out my contract but i cannot see where it has a,b,c,d.
Maybe like other people we should spend more time out there beforehand so everything its not so rushed.
Still having communication problems with pw and solicitor but have not signed to say we will be over for the 12th.
Phoned Parador yesterday they said PW should allow an extra month.
We are feeling quite stressed as we have not had a set of instructions what do. 
                        Ruth and Peter Jardine 9

Hi Ruth & Peter (Ruthless)

When you agreed to by your apartment you should have received an A4 Document containing:

• Signed Contract - 10 pages
• Signed Contract specifications - 2 pages
• Signed Apartment Plan - 1 page
• Signed Jardin Plan - 1 page
• Signed development plan - 1page

On the Signed Apartment Plan 2 bed, it has, at the top of the page 2 drawings of your block and unit, underneath this on the left a plan of your unit, to the right of this a plan of the roof solarium showing the location of the pergola, underneath this a  small site plan showing your block location, and underneath this some writing which says VIVIENDA TIPO (house type) and then a letter which should be A, B, C, or D.

I don’t know exactly what the letter denotes, I think it is to do with your apartment position (Left hand, right hand, end)? and not particularly relevant to the pergola position?

Regards

Phil

This message was last edited by PGM on 7/30/2008.

Sorry to those who are in the same position as us - I thought there would be some!

On the replies posted I see some contracts specify apartment types A,B,C or D.  This is this first time I have been aware of this and I´m not sure what it says on ours (left it home, didn´t think we would need it out here).  At the moment I can only presume types A&B are the original way around and C&D must be the reversed ones.  Has anyone´s contract got a plan showing the pergola at the back on the left hand apartment and does it specify type C or D?

Regarding the photo on the habitation certificate, PW have told us this is a "general" photo only.  I queried this with our lawyer, as it is a legal document, but she said it was not a problem.

I agree with PGM´s post below, PW should have informed us of a material change and our lawyer should have picked it up too.  It may turn out that we have to sue our lawyer - anyone any idea how we would go about that in Spain?  Gotta be harder than suing PW even!!!  Anyway, that´s the next possible step if PW dig their heels in.

If anyone was wondering how the view is affected I can tell you that when seated at the front of roof the front wall is about head height - you have to stand to look over it. At the back under the pergola, lovely view of the car park and backs of the other apartments!  I have some photos but can´t upload them from this internet shop.

Anyone else who is affected please keep the replies coming in.  I would really like to appreciate the scale of this issue - thanks.

Regards
Tim

TimA,

I've uploaded a copy of the plans for my apartment, it's a 'Type D'  - Left hand with pergola at the back.

Phil