SARC Report 2 October thanks to Linda and David

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14 Oct 2008 12:00 AM by TonyMal Star rating in Oxfordshire. 1090 forum posts Send private message

 

Tony Malpass and Brian Dornan asked that I attend a meeting on behalf of SARC members which was arranged for Thursday 3rd October at 12 noon.Those present at the meeting were Almudena, David (my husband) and myself.  Suemac and John had intended to be there but sent apologies due to unforeseen circumstances. 

I would like to thank Tony and Brian for making the arrangement.   

Whilst there are those who do not believe these meetings achieve anything, I personally disagree.  I feel that it gives all purchasers another perspective from which to form and ask questions, particularly of their respective legal representatives.  Any information must surely help all of us to make better informed decisions about what are, at the end of the day, our futures. Any mistakes in interpretion, legal or otherwise are mine.

 I hope there is something of interest here for all, regardless of what you wish the end result to be.  I do not fully understand the administration process but have written below what transpired at this meeting and asked the questions I thought appropriate and to the best of my ability. Many of the questions asked where those specifically asked by SARC members 

It is necessary to separate San Jose from Herrada del Tollo.  Creditors cannot be swapped from one company to another.  Herrada del Tollo is in a different situation and with the exception of a conversation in regard to El Pinet, all the information below is in respect of Herrada del Tollo however, some will also be global. 

State of Play at the Moment 

Almudena started by saying that essentially, from the creditors point of view, nothing has changed since the company was put into administration. 

H del T still require Four and a Half Million Euros in order to acquire the expropriated land. 

There are several groups interested in investing in, a part of, or the whole project.  These include American and Russian companies.

The Administrators are still working to obtain an agreement. It is a long process due to the checks required for future monetary requirements. 

The Administrators are currently writing the report which will go to the Judge.  It is expected to be complete and with the judge by end of October, early November latest. 

The judge will need to evaluate the report and sometimes this can be up to 4 months.  There is no time limit on the judge to make a ruling.  However, the judge does not normally take long to reach his conclusions and it was thought it would not be long in this case.  It is possible that the judge could allow more time to the Administrators to work with the company to reach a successful conclusion. 

Process/Procedure once the judge has made his ruling

- If he decides Herrada del Tollo can continue to trade out of their difficulties 

The present phase of the administration process is called ‘Fase Comun’

The next phase is called ‘Convenio’

It is at this stage that the Administrators instruct Herrada del Tollo to contact creditors.

It is at this stage that you will be asked if you wish to continue with the contract or wish to terminate the contract.

It is at this stage the ‘Convenio’ when clients can negotiate things like compensation and what they would like to have written in their contracts.

The Administrators would stay indefinitely. 

Normally, the judge looks at the situation and does not allow the company to continue if he feels there is a danger of them collapsing again within a short period of time. He normally looks to a long period. 

A review of the plans has been and is being considered.

Those with live contracts will be given the opportunity to move to another property or plot if they wish.  They can upgrade and will need to negotiate this at the time of the ‘Convenio’

The golf course will stay as will the club house.

The amenities will be reviewed and accessed according to the number of live contracts at the time. 

Process/Procedure once the judge has made his ruling

- If he decides Herrada del Tollo cannot continue to trade out of their difficulties  

Herrado del Tollo will go into liquidation. 

This is a new process. 

There is no money and in this situation, the main objective of the Administrators is to balance sales of assets with credits. There is no guarantee that this can be achieved. This can take anything from 1 year to many years. 

El Pinet 

It was felt that the issues involving El Pinet would not take long to resolve. Between 1 and 2 months.

They have not yet got the financial backing they need but are negotiating, together with the Administrators, with a bank and it is looking very positive.

El Pinet will be the 1st to be finished.

The company who where negotiating for the land for the hotel are still interested.  However, once the Administration process was announced  the offer for the land was reduced and this is being negotiated with the help of the Administrators.  There are other interested parties as El Pinet needs a hotel. 

Contracts.   

Some of the following is probably quite controversial but I feel it is necessary to include as it allows everyone to form opinions and questions to put to their respective legal representatives. 

            New contracts will not be written.  Anything renegotiated during the ‘Convenio’ stage         will be appended to the original contract

A meeting was taking place on Thursday afternoon between a legal representative representing his clients, the Administrators and Herrada del Tollo Directors. 

The object was to find a resolution whereby his clients could cancel their contracts.  The resolution was not found on this occasion. 

            25% of creditors have BG’s 

            If you have a BG and your contract is cancelled.  The bank has to pay unless they can find a legal reason not to. 

            If you do not have a BG and your contract is cancelled, if your credit is not considered privileged, then you remain on the creditors list but without any options to negotiate at a future date. 

            If your contract remains live you leave your options open. 

            Any deal negotiated between Legal representatives, Administrators and Herrado del Tollo which is considered privileged is available to all as it will set a precedent. 

            From the point of view of Herrada del Tollo, if they thought they were going into    liquidation,  there would be some advantages in negotiating as it could be possible to avoid paying taxes and interest. 

The following are answers to questions I asked my lawyer and only refer to those without a BG.  but please do not rely on these.  Ask put your own questions to your own lawyer.           

If a contact is out of date and the purchaser closes this contract, with the help of his lawyer negotiating a final agreement, and this amount is then placed on the creditors list, because there is no money to pay.  

If a termination of a contract is agreed with the Administrators, then part of the agreement must be that the credit is not considered ?ordinary? but considered ?credit against the mass?, which means that these are paid in first turn.  

What is the position of this person, who now has no choice other than to stay on the creditors list, if the judge liquidates and another company  buys the company in liquidation. 

The new company takes over debt. Buying the company means buying debits and credits.

If the company is liquidated, then contracts would no longer be valid anyway and creditors would be paid off with the remains. 

What is the position for this person if a deal/take-over is agreed and the judge does not liquidate.

The deal will establish when is the payment/handover due. 

If you keep the contract with Herrada del Tollo and a deal/takeover is agreed and the judge allows the company to continue, what is the position of the person with a contract.  Albeit out of date. 

At the moment the company continues trading under Court control. The position of a buyer is the same as today. He can choose whether to reverse the contract due to failure on completion date, and then claim for his credit, or continue waiting.  

Does that new company have to take on the debt or can they take the ongoing business only.  

Depends on what is agreed with the company that comes along, but no agreement can leave creditors out, and no agreement can mean more than 50% loss. 

Comments. 

Normally David and I would refrain from adding our thoughts to any report but felt as we were the only ones there that we would on this occasion.  However, it is purely speculation and nothing else. 

David felt that there are negotiations continuing but that the companies involved wanted to either, take over the whole of the company, or at the very least, have controlling interest which is not acceptable to Herrada del Tollo directors at the moment. 

I agreed with that assumption but also thought that as Herrada del Tollo are in a weak position at the bargaining table that it could be a last minute decision when pushed to the brink. 

I felt that ‘if’ it is in the interests of Herrada del Tollo to negotiate a deal with lawyers, whereby they could save themselves both interest and taxes, then they would have done so.  They may still do so but that was not the message that was coming across. Herrada del Tollo is the company that has the assets and sales in which to make a recovery so the situation is somewhat different to San Jose Inversiones. 

Almudena also said for the first time that there is no money.  This was very significant as previously it has been said, by some parties, that there was money in a safe account.  David and I both believe that the money is in both assets and bank guarantees, possibly against loans with the BG as surety and the rest is spent and can be accounted for.  We do know that there is a BG held by the Jumilla Ayuntamiento. 

We also reminded ourselves that the Administrators will make the report and the judge will make his decision regardless of any speculation.  

6 October 2008

 

 

 

 

 

 




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14 Oct 2008 5:38 PM by malc Star rating. 143 forum posts Send private message

Linda   i would like to say thank you to you and Dave for a very well written report,  Thank you for takeing the time and trouble and sharing your thoughts with us.  Without ramming it down our throats as well.

Well done


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14 Oct 2008 5:42 PM by Chrissie1 Star rating in UK. 384 forum posts Send private message

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I would also like to say thank very much to all it is much appreciated.

Chrissie



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Chrissie   


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14 Oct 2008 5:52 PM by barry210357 Star rating in Burntwood, Staffs.. 111 forum posts Send private message

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Yes.......we'd like to echo those sentiments.

Thanks for sharing the info, regardless of what you want either IWMH or IWMMB

I know there's one thing we all want though:- AETTBN ( An End To This B#*#dy Nightmare )

Hopefully that'll be remedied sooner than later !



_______________________
Baz & Sue R10 - 36


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14 Oct 2008 6:24 PM by julie anne Star rating. 1103 forum posts Send private message

Linda and David I as you know am one of the people that don't put much store on anything SJ/HdT have to say  but I would like to thank both of you for writing the report  and presenting  it so well .I appreciate your  thoughts at the end of the report and value your opinion Thanks JA


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14 Oct 2008 7:26 PM by jillyg Star rating in Deepcut, Surrey. 57 forum posts Send private message

Linda & David,

I would also like to thank you for attending the meeting and writing up the report. As many others I just want this nightmare to be over, one way or another.

Regards

Gill

_______________________
G S Gee


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14 Oct 2008 7:27 PM by jillyg Star rating in Deepcut, Surrey. 57 forum posts Send private message

Linda & David,

I would also like to thank you for attending the meeting and writing up the report. As many others I just want this nightmare to be over, one way or another.

Regards

Gill

_______________________
G S Gee


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14 Oct 2008 8:50 PM by suemac Star rating in Jumilla, Murcia. 1001 forum posts Send private message

Hi Linda and David

We would also like to thank you for attending the meeting and writing up the report.  As you know, John and I had hoped to attend as we are now living in Jumilla.  For those of you on the forum who have been cynical about SARC, we contacted them and asked if we could also attend, even though unfortunately we cannot afford to wait for our house.  SARC agreed, though they did say that it was subject to Almudena also agreeing, which she did.  I was asked to provide an update on the meeting on an earlier post (can't remember which thread as there is so much being posted!) however I don't think I was the appropriate person to post it.

Unfortunately, John had a problem the day before the meeting with accessing his bank account (big panic, as he thought he had lost thousands of pounds!) however luckily he found out that it was just a major problem with ATMs, but it did mean he couldn't go to the meeting as he needed to sort it out before we returned to London as we had bills to pay.  I had a bad cold, and quite honestly didn't fancy having to catch two buses, with the risk of missing my connection, and being stranded on my own.  The point I am making is that even though we are not in the IWMH camp, we could have attended this meeting, with the agreement of SARC and Almudena.  As we don't have a bank guarantee, despite frequent requests through our agent, we believe that the best thing for us is for SADM to go ahead, and we also believe it is the best thing for Jumilla.

Knowing you both, we would like to thank you for a good and we know accurate report of the meeting.

Best wishes.

Sue & John







_______________________

 Sue Walker

Author of "Retiring the Ole Way", now available on Amazon

See my blog about our life in Spain: www.spainuncovered.com



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14 Oct 2008 9:14 PM by Chrissie1 Star rating in UK. 384 forum posts Send private message

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We were also invited to go to the meeting with Linda and Dave via SARC.  We dont have a BG but at the end of the day when all the cards are on the table we will all make decisions that are right for our circumstances.  We are grateful for any information and at this present time at least things are moving forward.  We have all waited a long time and it is hats off to people like Linda & Dave who take their own time up for the good of others.  So thanks a lot and keep up the good work.  

Linda & Dave

The tea, hospitality and laugh was good and we hope its not too long before we can meet up again.  Give our love to Pops and tell him to keep his eyes off those bikinis and thongs on the beach.

Thanks again

Chrissie & Rob    



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Chrissie   


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15 Oct 2008 6:49 AM by barry210357 Star rating in Burntwood, Staffs.. 111 forum posts Send private message

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It would appear that, from news I have received about the ongoing negotiations with all concerned that those with a BG, will be able to get their money back, by having their contracts reversed, and the banks to pay out.

Those without a BG however, have a couple of options.

They can either wait.......or sue SJ/HdT on a separate court case, asking for the contract to be reversed.

We have been advised that this is not recommended because it really has no advantage on our position as a creditor and will mean extra fees and costs to pay. Only if the court ever decided to proceed with the construction, and we were not interested at all in having our house built, then it would be wise to consider having our contract reversed and getting our money back.In any case, we don’t see any chances at all on the site continuing (at least before formal bankruptcy is declared) so the effect will be the same as soon as the Judge decides the creditors have to be paid back and all contracts must be reversed.



_______________________
Baz & Sue R10 - 36


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15 Oct 2008 8:21 AM by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 1982 forum posts Send private message

Thanks for the report and the effort, much appreciated.  hope you enjoyed the meeting.

Something for everybody in there, as we would expect eh.

I have to say the real information about the state of affairs does still come from my lawyer, no tinsel wrapping, no speculation....just facts, stages and outcomes.

Its more rewarding to me to have someone working professionaly in acheiving an outcome than having what is tantamount to greedy failed builder, throwing some crumbs and guesses around......

Just my opinion though

_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 



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15 Oct 2008 1:28 PM by julie anne Star rating. 1103 forum posts Send private message

I am with you on this one  Briando . I would rather believe what my legals are saying  about the true state of affairs than listen to anymore of Almu's crap. As usual SJ  still think they can call the shots . We will see .


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15 Oct 2008 5:39 PM by joanie666 Star rating. 231 forum posts Send private message

Hi All I am fully aware of the intimate details of the meeting that took place with the group lawyer. Whilst it was nice of Linda and david to meet san jose and for tony to relay comments regarding almundenas foresight; I can now say first hand that the conversation with regards to the outcome of the meeting with the group lawyer is pure spin and misleading information. people should pay no attention to it whatsoever and speak with their own legal reps Tony as a word of caution you should not believe and then print the crap that san jose print. They are after nothing but their own best interests and their claims that different outcomes do not benefit owners shows a rather revealing side of their cunning and devious nature What admin and san jose want and what happens are two entirely different things I do not wish to say too much and give away the legal arguments of the group San jose and the administrators were never going to look after owners interests and it should not surprise you to hear what is in the report - nor should it surprise you that they feel owners have no choice other than to accept delays and compensation packages for a property that will never exist. Do not read this report as having any credibility whatsoever! Nor the people that peddle it for that matter


This message was last edited by joanie666 on 10/15/2008.


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15 Oct 2008 6:31 PM by martinbrothers Star rating in Worcestershire. 278 forum posts Send private message

Joanie666, I dont doubt what you say it for a moment.  Unless Ive missed something, not one Lawyer (other than Tony and Brian's - sorry guys) , have given anyone else advice to wait, hope and believe these people.  I have no feelings other than utter contempt for SJ/HdT and no amount of persuasion would make me change my opinion of them.  In the early days of this horror story those of us without BG's through absolutely no fault of our own (as per the original Contract) and have had no choice but consider and hope SADM would get built.  We called it a foot in both camps then.  Then some of us have spent even more money by flying out, staying a week and choosing an exchange property to safeguard ourselves - they couldnt even complete on that.  Court and money back and sue them - and no I dont care how long it takes me now - but that's my decision and I dont expect anyone else to think the same.  I will never trust these people again.

I appreciate the notes Linda and David took.  Its just made me feel even stronger about San Jose now , in a negative way.  How dare they spin us at this stage. They just dont care about 'ex' clients in the slightest.

Sal



_______________________

Sal



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15 Oct 2008 6:48 PM by TonyMal Star rating in Oxfordshire. 1090 forum posts Send private message

Hi Sal,
I know that you are very upset and frustrated but I suggest that you step back and take a deep breath. Not only have Brian and My solicitor said wait, so has another solicitor. You want to go and run up a legal bill when you do not need to is your perogative but it would be unwise to start any legal action until you know the outcome of the administration process.   

As for the negative spin from Joanie666, I am sorry to have to tell you but the information regarding BGs and the postion of those without BGs, stated in this report and the 14 October update has been confirmed by one of the BG groups solicitors. The information in them stands.

All the best to you
Tony R17 18

 




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15 Oct 2008 6:58 PM by joanie666 Star rating. 231 forum posts Send private message

pile of crap as I have the lead solicitors written word and have spoken in great depth sentence by sentence. Tony you have now proved to me that you are equally as bad if not worse than san jose. You have no integrity and are just out to peddle lies and spin to unsuspecting victims. You should be ashamed of yourself Prove yourself with fact and give me the name of the solicitor who has confirmed this. I dare you. No doubt, as per usual you will ignore this question which proves you to be a liar..and yes get your solicitor I dont give a damn
oh and in the continued vein of giving advice; Tony I suggest you take a deep breath, step back and shut the **** up

This message was last edited by joanie666 on 10/15/2008.


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15 Oct 2008 7:40 PM by julie anne Star rating. 1103 forum posts Send private message

Tony talking Tosh as usual .Just you stick with Almu Tony she will make sure you  are all right  and get your house ,Total tosh.Hell mend you Tony if you want to belive their bull they have been at it for years .


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15 Oct 2008 7:48 PM by TonyMal Star rating in Oxfordshire. 1090 forum posts Send private message

Hi Girls,
You really should go and wash your mouths out with some soap and try to act with a bit more decorum. Then you might post something of interest rather than nasty little remarks.   ho hum
all the best
Tony


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15 Oct 2008 7:51 PM by joanie666 Star rating. 231 forum posts Send private message

I notice tony that yet again you have not answered the question that you have established as a FACT. You have seen no legal advice from my solicitor that backs up your comments. So tell me the name of the solicitor. No doubt this will be ignored yet again


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16 Oct 2008 7:49 PM by joanie666 Star rating. 231 forum posts Send private message

still no answer from Tony then. Funny how he claims things as fact and then cant produce the goods. Tony you willfully tried to deceive people as to the contents of that meeting to try and persuade owners that they have no real choice. Why would you want to do that? ho hum


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Pages: 1 | 2 | Next |
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Previous Threads

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Inversol - 2 posts
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IWMMB - but still want a house - 30 posts
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NO MONEY IN THE POT SO HOW DO YOU GET IT BACK? - 30 posts
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37 posts were found:


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