DEVELOPER REFUSES TO REFUND MY MONEY BANK GUARANTEES NO GOOD

At last someone real on the site who speaks with sense.. yes we dont want to scare people off but the whole concept of these forums is to posts your experiences..

My experience is simply i have decided to cancel and cannot get the developer to refund my money... simple and a fact...

My experience also is that the site is still progressing very slowly... as recorded and verified by the latest post. Pat and co. everyones properties are very very late...

That does not make me thick or  a bad person as suggested by another member... yes i could have decided not to post the blog for my own protection not to create the chance of a stampede that would risk my investment as well as that of others...

I  decided to posts the blog as I am an honest bloke and say it as it is and think it is worthy material for the forum which it clearly is by the responce.....

And in the case of  my angry forum member yes post in Spanish if you like!

I am hoping to have business interest in Spain so i have taken some time out to learn...  usted debe ser muy viejo y amargo

No man, you are coming down to Earth now. So you want business in Spain, why? If don´t work properly, if bankers don´t have degrees.

I think you went to far and now you are calming down.
As you say this is a post to put down private experiences, BUT NO LYES, site is progressing quick, is a big site and a lot to do, and fair for the builder that is planting trees, preparing play grounds, building pools, cycling paths, and so on, before he releases the properties, as all that human effort could have gone just onto finish the properties and in that case we would end up living in a building site, what the builder is trying no to.

Do not come as a victim, when you are the one that has created all the hustle on the blog, and the only negative block, insulting me as a banker with your rymes.

Man, you didn´t do it right and now you realize that you are not that high and you are a little piece of a hughe World.

I hope from now ahead you start being sensible to other neighbours and feelings.

Your requests are good but don´t knock down the site as is gorgeous.

regards

We have read most of the comments about Frondoso development.  We bought on M4 with a revised completion date of March 2009.

We have genuine sympathy for both sides of the argument as to whether to pull out or remain with the development.  Unfortunately at the moment there appears to be developing a tidal wave of desire to pull out of the project almost akin to a panic.

With the present state of the construction industry in Spain every party who pulls out of the project is contributing to problems for those who wish to remain - though we fully appreciate the difficulties with the bank guarantee which should be watertight but appears to be not worth the paper its written on.

If people are in a position to wait we hope they will, as when completed this should be one of the best developments in that part of Spain.

On our last visit in October 2008 we found considerable progress had been made (and since according to photos sent to us in December). 

We are due to visit in 2 weeks and hopefully can then report back some positive findings (any requests?!)

Regards Kevin and Julie Watson from Leeds

I am entitled to my opinion on the local village and the development without being insulted thank you.

No problem with you expressing opinions but i draw a line at being  insulted hence the reply you received somewhat in the same tone as your entries if you take the time to read them again

The local village is a bit scruffy and not very pleasant to the eye... the local cafes resemble truckers stops other than the one at the bottom of the hill and the one up the lane with the tree covered carpark...

As a civil engineer I am more qualified to comment on the project management and progress of the build far more than you are just like you are more qualified to talk about finance...

Its obvioulsy in everyones interest to get the people who want to complete and continue into the properties in as soon as possible, safely and maintaining standards.. likewise a similar approach should be granted to those not wishing to continue...

You stated " i dont deserve a penny and the builder will never give me my money back"

Whats that all about... I think you need to reflect more than me... I made a few comments about the place and you set about me in a agressive and insulting way...  Thats simply not on...

The developer decided to subcontract the contract works no doubt to for his financial reward  and to contractors who went bust... did he accept the cheapest price? did he do financial checks? has it got anything to do with me?  Perhaps if he accepted the cheapest price that explains the lack of resources on the job and the way the contractor set about doing the job...

My thoughs are if the developer was dynamic in his approach to the situation most peoples concerns could be answered quickly..

Those wishing to cancel either refunded in full or well compensated to continue

Currently we are all being shrugged off with no sign of ever receiving our desposits back infact being told we are not getting them back.....

The reaction to my cancellation request has broke any  trust I had with the developer... did he treat the contractors blamed for the delay in the same way in relation to thier interim payments requests for work done on site.. can you see a picture forming...

The responsibility for the delay rest with the developer not his subcontractors and he cannot expect to gain the same level of renumeration from this development as he has not delivered anywhere near on time.

Just for Chance, imagine if the developer start reducing prices to buyers as compensation for the delay, between you and me, do you think he is going to loose money?

Or is more normal thinking that he would reduce the quality of the finishing, such us pools, gates, paths, landscape, sports area and so on.

This is my property for ever and i want it right, even if it takes a little bit more as i am not planning to move ever again in my life.

All you say you want to try is going to work negatively for all of us, the owners, and is funny when you say that " all of us we fill shrugged off....", who is all of us?

I can feel disapointed with the completion but not with the site, so please don´t put your words in others mouth, the site is worth the money we are paying for it and even more.

Obviously i would love a disscount but which way is going to affect that to the finishing of the site?

Have you ever thought on it?

Its sounding like you dont trust the developer in finishing off the job hence your agressive responces to my posts..somehow this blog will influence the final outcome of the project. maybe the developer should consider giving away some of his profit margin to resolve the delay issue.

I wouldnt expect him to loose money by excessive discounting but none the less he has contract obligations to finish the job or to refund.

I am not putting words in people mouths several individuals are trying to cancel so I am clearly not on my own here.. I have spoken to two such people today... who are having a good laugh about this blog despite serious concerns about deposits. as well as the increased cost of the mortgages with the weaker pound and affordability due to the economy etc.... real life issues to most...

I have invested £50k so I have given the situation a reasonable amount of thought as its a considerable sum of cash... certainly not an amount I would choose to give away in order to satisfy some other persons dream... put an amount i would prefer to recover simply without having to become involved in a bitter legal battle...

In my business the trick is communication, maintaining communication even in hard situations and circumstances.. something the developer has failed to do... with a simple point blank refusal to refund... perhaps if he engaged in trustworthy constructive talks with those concerned then the whole issue might just get resolved to his benefit as well as to all the other investors in his development... 

You obvioulsy see the developers on a regular basis perhaps you can mention that perhaps Josie's tone is not going down to well and perhaps he needs to be more constructive and dynamic in his efforts to resolve what has become a major point of concern for many speculators in his development... 

I am not being unreasonable, i have placed £50k in the trust of Josie to delivery me a dwelling on a completed complex. that has never been in question, and if he failed to do this he is obliged to refund my deposit. He has failed and to his peril the contract has heavy sanctions against him after the initial 6 month delay...

So the dynamic solutions to resolve this situation needs to come from Josie and quickly... I invite him to join the blog and post a solution to this problem, one that will be honoured and legal that will assist everyone feeling the strain of his failure to complete on time... that way he may secure his own survival and his reputation.

Can i suggest some ideas

• A sliding scale discount or cashback based on the length of your delay or a payment holiday {paid by the developer] on the mortgage to allow people to see out this recession and maybe provide time for the pound to recover.
• On the completion of the properties.. an official statement listing all the dwellings with completion dates against each of them .. dates that will be achieved updated weekly
• On the completion date of the common areas, a date for completion and agree a retention fund that wil be witheld until he finishes the common areas
• Perhaps a financial statement on the development as a whole seconded by the banks so we know it will get done...

Any other ideas please post... What I am saying is not unreasonable thats simply good communication... to start saying to people that you will never get your refund back will destroy the development unfortunately thats the developers current stance and he will fall on his own sword operating in this way...

A couple of things:

1st, don´t talk to me as if i am the builder as i am not, i am just a buyer like you who is laughing on your requests and i do hope they don´t cause any damage to me and my invest.

2nd, if i have read well you are asking me to go and talk to the builder on your behalf, you must be joking.

As i told you from the very beginning all you´ve been doing is complain and lye on all subjects so up to you mate.

Again leave us, the rest, living in peace.

And you say about communication, you didn´t sound that communicative when i read back the post, just unpolite.

Again, do whatever you have to do, but try not to cause trouble to the rest that we want to go ahead.

Still think some of your excuses are too poor.
Go to Court and try with that.

It is amazing that there have been 3 years of delayes as you say, and is only on the last 4 months when you want your money back.
I cannot see you in Court with that program.

As i have said, do what you have to do but don´t cause trouble to the rest of the neighbourhood.

And another thing, lucky you that you only put down 50k some of we have put down double.
Don´t tell me about your personal problems as we all have them, but i am not going to pay for yours.
Site is sold nearly 80 % and out of 300 hundred, 3 unhappy? Not too much isn´t it?

Dont worry about your investments as you state it all nearly done so you shouldnt have a problem.. likewise I dont see myself having a problem its just a case of following through the legal protocol.. Its a shame if it is only 3 in 300 that the guy cannot just honour the contract and make refunds on request and admit he's defaulted that way everyone is happy...its quicker and saves a lot of hassle...  My lawyers have executed the guarantee... 

I dont complain I just say it as it is.... I am not going to change its seen my right for 20 years in business and I have a very good life by it...

I dont think the requests recorded are out of norm if i told you what the other two people have agreed perhaps you wouldnt be so negative.

Good luck thats me done here.. hope you enjoy your new place before you get too old...Brush up on your building skills you never know when you may need them...

The latest update on Frondoso Valley.  We have just arrived back from a 4 day stay at Roda Golf in Los Alcazares.  Weather sunny but gets very cold on a night.  I hope people are having radiators in their property at Frondoso if wanting to spend winter months there!!  Some brilllant restaurants there the best we visited was named 'Patio' well worth a visit - open barbeque  - cooking all your steaks etc in front of you - first class and packed out so made need to book in high season.

Anyway re Frondoso we are buying on M4 - our property not as far on as we would of liked - however since our visit in October - outside area now tiled, gates on and all tiling completed inside.  The windows were being put in as we were there and all inner doors and wardrobes there ready to be fitted.  Plenty of work going on at all phases.  Unfortunately Ismael was not available at the office however we did manage to speak to him on the phone and he still stated ours would be ready end of March - no way!  If they were just working on ours yes but there are so many properties to be completed we think it will be more like July.  But hey its going to be worth the wait the quality of fittings etc are first class and the outside areas are great - the plants on  roundabouts, walkways, lighting  and play areas are superb and the over all look of the developments is all we had hoped.  The properties on M1 look just about ready so hopefully you guys will be in soon - we had a peep in one and the kitchen was being fitted again the quality A1.

We had a meal in Sangonera de Verde the restaurant opposite the supermarket on the main street.  The meal of the day 10 euros - which included tapas to start, soup, fish or meat dish, desserts, coffee and all drinks - what more can you ask who needs the supermarket!!  Well worth a visit but take your phrase book as don't speak much English however adds to the fun and the waiter really nice.  The supermarket fish counter is also very good - can't wait to barbeque on the roof terrace - hope we can all get together when our properties are completed and celebrate!!

Well as you can gather we had a lovely visit amd love the area - visited some lovely costal places - Cape Roig, Santiago de la Ribera, and Catagena and can't wait until Easter when we will be out again, we hope to explore more inland on that visit - we did take plenty of pictures and we will try to put them on  this site but will email pictures promised to my eye on spain buddies.  Regards for now  Julie and Kevin from Leeds

Hi we are buying a property on M2 and have been told completion in July 2009. We are visiting next week (16 March 2009) and will try to upload some photos when we return.
We are buying through Medsea Estates to and have had an enjoyable experience so far with constant feedback and updates.

Hope to chat to our new neighbours soon.

Kind regards

Mo and Andy Dean