Hi Debs,

I only read the top part of the e-mail which said it was an official statement from Cleyton Ges, after checking and reading the full e-mail it was sent by Amanda Tanner of Finca Valley Spain SL, sorry for the error, if we hear any-thing more we will let you know.

I recieved the same statement for my agent select properties in the UK. It came with a covering letter from them.

A bit of hope shining for the masses caught up in dodgy deals.

This from another development reportied fom CBNews this week

Builder sentenced to pay back expat house buyers
 

By Nuria Pérez
TWO clients have won a court battle against Murcia building company Procobar, which is part of Grupo MASA.

Peter R. and Frances M. had bought two properties off plan at the Sierra Golf resort near Balsicas, Torre Pacheco.

However the properties were not completed on time.

According to the court sentence the builder had broken the contract as he had not respected the terms of the agreement by finishing on the agreed date.

As such the clients had the right to have their money returned.

The builder was ordered to return the 123,050 euros plus interest to the buyers last year.

Procobar appealed to the regional Supreme Court but a judge confirmed the sentence this week and rejected the appeal.

The builder has also been ordered to pay the court costs.

GROUNDBREAKING DECISION

The decision by the court could open the flood gates for hundreds if not thousands of people who purchased properties off plan prior to the recession.

With many construction companies simply closing down and leaving development projects unfinished most off plan purchasers thought they had lost their money due the inherent difficulties of prosecuting builders.

This Supreme Court ruling now means that builders who break their contracts with clients can be made to pay. Anybody who finds themselves in this position is advised to seek legal advice before taking any action and the Murcia Supreme Court decision could give them legal precedence should they decide to go to court.

nperez@cbnews.es

Hi Guys,

My partner and I made a brief visit to the site last week just to see what was going on for ourselves, sadly not a lot !  We had expected to be moving into our casa earlier this year and it was very sad to see it  finished and empty,  the houses looked stunning standing there glistening in the glorious summer sunshine,  lonely and abandoned.

There appears to be someone living in one of the smaller houses and there is currently a security office at the entrance, whilst we were there a van load of chappies arrived and from what we could make out they are expecting to commence working again soon but from what we could understand it will be with a new employer, not sure if they meant  a new construction company or a new developer ! 

At this time I would just like to add my support to the F.V. guys who have made a sterling effort over the past year or so, the disgusting vile unnecessary remarks aimed at them were in my view totally uncalled for and out of order,  I'm surprised that they have not been edited as they clearly breech the terms and conditions of rules of this site. 

Alex

Email statement regarding Las Higuericas, Finca Parcs received on Friday 21 August 2009 - Issued by Town & Country Spain - Estate Agents

Lets see how long it takes for these to be issued, will make things easier to get our money back though:)

I got the e-mail from Town and Country but forgive me for being less than ecstatic at this news but after all Cleyton Ges have been making all sorts of promises in the last 12 - 18 months and how many have they kept.

What happened to the meeting with Dragados at the beginning of this month?

Note also it is the company administer that has issued the message, I assume they mean company administrator and you know what that means, they have gone bust and are in admininstration.

Perhaps the administrator has more influence with Cam Bank than Cleyton Ges or David Fuster especially as it would reduce the amount of creditors they have do deal with.

Lets hope its not another Cleyton Ges tactic and we get the guarantees.

Promises regarding Bank Guarantees have been made by everyone involved with Finca Parcs since January 2007..................

I think in the statement Town & Country made a small error with the word - Administer.  I think they actually mean Administrador Unico.  The current Administrador Unico of Cleyton GES SL is Gregorio Calvaro Olbarrio.  Previous persons to hold this position in Cleyton GES were Ramiro Mauleon Ramon, Antonio Jose Veas Arteseros and Antonio Hernandez Gomis.  I think Administrador Unico is probably the equivalent of the Company Secretary in a UK Limited Company.  This position has no connection with a Spanish SL company entering the process of Administration.

To the best of my knowledge Cleyton GES are not yet in Administration, however there are several Court Judgements outstanding against the Company for non-payment.

Not sure if this latest promise regarding Bank Guarantees will come true..............

I agree with Keith10 comments abiut the wording re administer as I have not seen any announcements regarding CG yet being placed into formal admistration but the situation is still very confusing and I would also be scepital that BG´s will be issued

 I always get nervous when Agents write saying that they have been given, a VERBAL confirmation that BG´s have been requested as the builder can ask but if the funds are not in place and secured, the bank will not ssue them and, as there has been no update to the last letter form CG regarding iuuses with the CAM Bank little has been resolved

The way the BG works is that it should be linked with the completion date in the sales contract which would in theory allow a number of people to immediately claim against the bank for a refund, hardly likel, considering a number of people have successfully executed a BG

There seems to be confusion as to where CG are, stories that their offices are empty, so what is the real truth, does anybody really know

Does anybody know if the development has been formally stopped and if yes why, it it planning problems or money problems

Finally as the agent will undoubably have to repay any commissions received on sold properties plus will have money due on future completions, it is not in their interests to rock the boat

I find it strange that Town & Country has suddenly made a statement on something that 'may happen' because they made it clear to me a couple of months ago that after nearly 3 years of broken promises regarding the Bank Guarantees and completion dates they would only now report on things that 'had happened' and not on things that 'may happen'.  They must be very confident that this final promise will actually be fullfilled..........

Inspectahome is correct - most purchasers including myself who do not have BG's, reserved and paid their deposit funds in good faith as far back as 2006.  For the BG's to be issued now the deposit funds which were paid to Cleyton GES between 2006 and 2008 must now be transferred by Cleyton GES to bonded escrow accounts to enable the Bank to issue the BG's.  Purchasers without BG's are on Phases 3, 4 and 5 for which Cleyton GES have never applied for the individual plot building licences (Licence de Obra).  Without building licences in place it is almost impossible to give a completion date.

Cleyton GES are still in existence, however most of the staff have been 'released'.  The two offices in Murcia - the sales office in the Torregodoy building and the other office in the Mercedes building in Avenida Juan Carlos (which is still the registered offfice address of Cleyton GES) were both vacated earlier this year.  The site has just a security hut by the entrance gate and a Dutch couple who are purchasing one of the bigger plots on Phase 1 are 'camping' in one of the Phase 1 Esthers.

Myself and some other purchasers met with Patricia Ramos Calderon, the technical planning officer at Hellin Town Council during the first week of June this year and she confirmed that the overall planning permission for the whole site was 100% legal.  She said the 'Anulada' status of the Phase 1 building licences which was declared by the Albacete Administrative Court Number 2 in November 2008 was 'not a problem'.  She said the only reason that she was not issuing the First Habitation Licences for the Esther's that are ready on Phase 1 was because earlier in 2009 she had supplied a 'small' list of work that needed to be undertaken prior to issue of the licences.  She went on to say that this work should normally take just a few weeks and cost around half a million euros.  The problem was/is that Dragados the construction company had already left the site.  So according to the Hellin Town Hall the problems are not planning issues.

The current problems are financial and this has been confirmed in the public email statements made over the last few weeks by Cleyton GES via the sales agents.  'Behind the scenes' negotiations have been taking place over the last few weeks between Cleyton GES, Dragados and CAM Bank.  For Town & Country Agents to issue the statement on Friday 21 August (copy below) confirming that 'missing' BG's will be issued in September 2009 then must assume that the negotiations have 'gone well'.

As no purchaser has yet be able to complete their purchase, the sales agents will not have received their full commission.  However, they almost certainly will have received a 'commission advance' on the deposits paid to date.
 

I still would be surprised if the BG´s were issued as under law they would have to be linked to the sales contract which I believe has a completion date which would allow some people to make an immediate claim for their money back

Clause 5 of the Sales Agreement states:

"BUILDING WORKS - The building of the dwelling will begin as soon as the mandatory local building licence is obtained and must end not later than EIGHTEEN MONTHS from its commencement.  The dwelling will be understood to be finished upon the grant of the certificate of Building Completion".

Clause 3 of the Sales Agreement states:

"Once the second instalment has been paid, all the payments made towards the total amount will be guaranteed by the correspondent certificate of Bank Guarantee, signed with the savings bank Caja de Ahorros del Mediterraneo, under number provided by the savings bank".

Hellin Town Hall confirmed to us that the Building Licence for Phase 1 was issued in March 2007 and Phase 2 in October 2007.  Building Licences for Phase 3, 4 and 5 have not yet been applied for.

We paid the first and second instalments in November/December 2006.

If there had been a reasonably independant lawyer involved in the esales process they should have seen, and even an existing lawyer should have advised that the clause below is ilegal and restrictive as Spanish Law  requires that a BG is provided on all payments received

Clause 3 of the Sales Agreement states:

"Once the second instalment has been paid, all the payments made towards the total amount will be guaranteed by the correspondent certificate of Bank Guarantee, signed with the savings bank Caja de Ahorros del Mediterraneo, under number provided by the savings bank".
 

Keith can you clarify.

I am on stage 3 and we have been reassured that all planning permissions have been granted and building was in fact already well advanced on a number of plots in April 2008 but now you say they didn't have a building licence.

What is more we cannot claim on the bank guarantee until 18 months after the building licence has been granted and a  building completion has not been given i.e. if a building licence hasn't been granted that is 18 months from never.

That makes the bank guarantees worthless if you haven't got a building licence so it's perhaps no surprise they are now prepared to issue them.

But I thought it was a law in Spain that bank guarantees had to be given for off plan developments supposedly to protect deposits placed on developments that never got beyond the planning stage.  But the bank guarantees only become effective on this development once building licence is granted i.e. they don't comply.

Or am I missing something.

Inspectahomespain's comments about lawyers strikes a nerve as ours (Fuster & Associates) failed to inform us that they had not received the guarantees until 12 months later and even then failed to offer any positive options and now it would appear that they failed to see another fairly blatant failing in the contract.

Hi there,

So what happens to the development if everyone is trying to get their money back through BG's? What about those who may wish to progress with the purchase of their property there? Cetainly if they dont have a BG in place?

If all the staff have been 'released' as Keith says then they wont be coming back to finish the build then? I know Antonio Gomez has started Euroarab-Spain SL this year, and Ramon Ramiro Mauleon has started Medban Consulting SL in July this year - so I guess those two wont be back will they? were is Gerard Cantore the sales guy? Gill? etc.

If the site was only stopped financialy as keith explained, and only for a half million euros then surely they could get that money to finish the site?

xx

It really depends on the status of the development and if any formal announcement has been made regarding the future of the development

The problem is that when numbers of people re-claim money, via the banks and BG´s,  the bank then claim against the developer the deposit amounts plus any  additional costs and interest so it become a vicious circle with major implecations on the developers for cash flow which makes €500k becomes a big issue

What many people are expecting is for CG to file for administration, protection form their creditors, but the Courts are not working again in Spain till September

If they do file then people with no BG become creditors and people with BG may have immediate grounds to excercise their BG´s

Catmandu - Patricia Ramos Calderon at the Town Hall in Hellin confirmed that planning permission for the whole project had been granted and there was no problem with this.  However, to commence building the individual houses on each Phase the developer has to apply for the Licence de Obra for that particular Phase or Sector.  As I mentioned the Licence de Obra for Phase 1 was granted on 16 March 2007 - I have a copy of this document.  The Licence de Obra for Phase 2 so I understand was granted in October 2007 - I have not seen a copy of this document to verify this information, however I believe it to be true as this was verbally confirmed by Patricia Ramos in our meeting at the Town Hall.  However she also stated that the Licence de Obra (permission to commece construction of the houses) for Phases 3, 4 and 5 had not yet been applied for as at early June 2009.

I have uploaded some photos dated 2 June 2009 in this forum.  There are several sets and you can see for yourself the progress on each Phase.

Photo Set Ref No. /  Description

44845 / Phase 1 Esthers
12465 / Phase 1 Esthers
37015 / Phase 1 Larger Plots
87399 / Phase 1
5947 / Phase 1
20862 / Phase 2
28379 / Phase 4 & 5
40242 / Phase 3
70862 / Photo 1 - Phase 3 & other photos Phase 2

With regards to the Town & Country statement dated 21 August 2009 regarding the missing Bank Guarantees, I am doubtful that this will happen - but of course I would love to be proved wrong.

With regards to your lawyer - Having read many articles regarding the situation of paying deposit funds to a Lawyer who then forwards them to a developer and fails to obtain a Bank Guarantee - you may have a vaild claim against your lawyer, who should have indemnity insurance for this type of situation.  Inspectahome or Maria de Castro may be able to shed more light on this situation.

Debs C - not sure if there are many people left who want to complete the purchase of their property now, given all the delays etc?The staff I mentioned as being 'released' were not building the houses.  They were the sales, management and admin staff.  All the construction was carried out by Dragados, who are part of the large corporation Groupo ACS.  However, as we all know they left the site earlier this year.  Not sure what Ramon Ramiro Mauleon is doing now but the information you have suggests he now has another business interest.  The last I heard Gerardo Cantore was working in Property Rentals in Torrevieja, Carmen went off to be a teacher and I think Gill wanted a break from the situation regarding Cleyton GES. 

I do not think the site was stopped only for half a million euros.  That was the Town Hall estimate of what needed to be spent on building work to get the First Occupation Licences issued for the Esthers on Phase 1.  By that time Dragados had already left the site.
 

Keith thank you very much for the full reply.  We were actually on our plot in April 2008 and they had started building, just, but other plots were well advanced, I will try to attach some photos.

Can they do that without the Licence de Obra?

It has been suggested to me that Cam Bank may be issuing the Bank Guarantees to avoid action against them and so they can present a clean image should Cleyton Ges apply for administration when the courts reopen in September.

Catmandu - Thanks for posting your photos.  I think that apart from the road being a little more completed then not much has changed up on Phase 3 since you were out in April 2008.  The developer is required to put all the roads, services, pathways and lighting in for the whole site after receiving the overall planning permission for the project.  But I suppose strictly speaking they should not have started constructing individual houses on Phase 3 unless the Licence de Obra for that phase had been applied for and granted.  Of course we know that they could not apply for the Licences for all 5 phases at once, probably for 2 reasons - 1.  The developer has to pay the Town Hall for the licences or get the bank who are funding the project to give the Town Hall a Bank Guarantee for the value of the licence fee.  2.  The Sales Agreements state that construction of the dwelling will be completed within 18 months from the issue of the building licence.  Of course it would have been impossible to complete all 617 houses within 18 months had they got all the licences at once.  So in reality to apply for the licences for each Phase 6 to 8 months apart was sensible.  Given that the Licence de Obra for Phase 1 was granted in March 2007 then this Phase should have been fully completed and had the First Occupation Licences issued by September 2008 (18 months).

A Sales Agreement for off plan purchases must include a start and finish date for the construction of the dwelling.  Purchasers on Phase 3, 4 and 5 do not even have a start date because as mentioned above the building licences have not been issued, let alone having a finish date.  I would suggest that these Sales Agreements for the later phases should have only been 'Reservation Contracts' with a 3000 euro reservation payment.  When the particular building licence was issued the purchasers should have then been contacted and asked to pay the balance of the 10% deposit and then a Sales Agreement should have been issued clearly stating the start and finish dates for the dwelling.  Of couse as required under Spanish Law - LEY 57/1968, which regulates the schedule of down payments) and Real Decreto 515/1989 all purchaser deposit payments should have been held in bonded escrow accounts separate to any regular accounts held by the developer/promotor and Bank Guarantees should have been issued immediately following receipt of the payments.

If anything I have mentioned above is not correct I would request Inspectahome or Maria de Castro to correct me.

Who has suggested to you about CAM Bank's wish for a clean image in case of Cleyton GES entering Administration?

Keith your statements are absolutely correct as I have mentioned before on this site and the lawyers should have been the people to chase and advise people what their legal rights were

Again it has been a  normal practice for developers to start building before licences and even take the next staged payment, based on some contract terms that say thet payments are made when the roof in on, without having a license

I would like to say that this is an isolated case but there are numerouse developments in Spain where the buyers have no BG´s and where the oney is gone because the builders have used the funds to actually build the development and then eventually gone in to receivership as seen on the postings for Aifos, San Jose and San Antonio

I always find it ironic that the same lawyer who represented a buyer in the purcahse is then more than happy to take more money from a buyer to represent them to recover money paid, when they didn´t necessarly act in the best interests of the buyer and, on another development, a group are taking a lawyer to Court claiming against their professional indemnity insurance for the failure to obtain a BG

Also if the agnet provided the lawyer, recomending their service they should also take some of the responsibility and cost for resolving matters, perhaos form the advnace commissions that they wouldhave been paid