Change of management - Jardines

I'm with Ted on most of that.  I won't be paying anyone else until I get a cast iron guarantee that I am paying the correct people for the correct product.  RPM's lack of communication is shocking - they do, however, seem to have mastered the art of collating all of our bank details and processing a monthly debit from our bank accounts rather slickly.  As I mentioned earlier on this thread - I also do not have a problem with our elected presidents opting for another management co to run the place on our behalf providing we are gaining rather than losing - and by that I do not mean in a fiscal sense - as I think €80 per month is pretty good - but in the deliverance of quality and value in running the resort.

Hi

I too agree with most of what Ted has said but ask yourselves one question, How long were the management company in place before they started up this website?.  Am I not mistaken that La Torre also had major problems with there first Mngemt Co and they got rid of them, but I feel this is slighty different as the Jardines are trying to break away from the rest of Condado and be run as a seperate entity.  This is the problem and i don't think it is in the best interests of the jardines or the rest of Condado for that matter, higher costs and grey areas are only going to be some of the problems if the resort fragments. If you view the live tv on Jill and Terrys site they mention this and tell you that the president of jardine 4 was the only one who voted against this proposal and something about a meeting being held.

Ali

The meeting that formally appointed RPM was in May. That's THREE months. Before that PW were really in charge. Give them a chance.

I'm not saying they will come up to the mark but be reasonable.

People want to find something useful to do with their time. There are personal interests involved here without a doubt.

Anyway, hopefully the matter has been closed. They weren;t acting on the resorts behalf as their meeting wasn't legal by our rules and RPM will take action against the individuals involved.

Written   in   Spanish  and   English

COMUNICADO Nº 1

Estimados propietarios:

            Después de todo lo ocurrido en la Junta de Comunidad el día 16 de mayo, en el auditórium de Alhama de Murcia. Esta asociación envió un comunicado a todos sus contactos, en el que comunicaba su disolución.

            Desde entonces, hasta hoy, han pasado más de  dos meses y las personas que coordinábamos dicha asociación, ante la evidencia de que los problemas en nuestra comunidad persisten ( jardines secándose, farolillos rotos por el suelo…), hemos decidido retomar dicha asociación.

            Por ello les comunicamos que periódicamente, y siempre que ustedes lo deseen, les informaremos puntualmente a través de este medio, de todos los asuntos que sean de nuestro interés común.

            Intentaremos que los propietarios de Condado de Alhama, tomen conciencia de la problemática que afecta a nuestra comunidad. La solución a nuestra comunidad, pasa por la unión de todos los propietarios, en una gran plataforma o asociación que aglutine y defienda nuestros intereses comunes.

             Nuestra única finalidad, en contra de lo que alguien os pueda decir, es sólo luchar por mejorar nuestra comunidad, sus cuotas, nuestros jardines, nuestro resort, etc.  Así lo hemos demostrado desde la primera reunión de comunidad del 20 de febrero, dónde las personas que  formamos dicha asociación empezamos a conocernos y lo seguiremos haciendo con el apoyo de todos ustedes.

            Todas las personas que coordinábamos esta asociación, nos presentamos voluntariamente a presidentes, para seguir trabajando por la comunidad y actualmente somos  presidentes de   9 jardines.

Como conclusión: A partir de estos momentos, retomamos las acciones en defensa de nuestra comunidad. Ustedes nos conocen, ya luchamos durante tres meses (20 febrero- 16 mayo) por el bien de ella y conseguimos, sin ser oficialmente nadie,  la presentación de un presupuesto alternativo más económico en 562.000 €. Este presupuesto  finalmente, fue aprobado, por la mayoría de los propietarios presentes en dicha junta de comunidad. Ha entrado en vigor a partir de mayo. Por ello la cuota de mayo y junio, les viene por un  importe inferior en unos 20-23 euros aproximadamente.

            Dándoles las gracias anticipadas por la atención prestada, en la lectura de este escrito y en la espera de contar en lo sucesivo con vuestros apoyos, reciban ustedes hasta la próxima comunicación, un  cordial saludo.

Condado de Alhama  a 2 de Agosto del 2.009

Atte: Asociación Condado de Alhama

NOTICE No. 1

Dear Owners:

After all what happened in the Community Board on May 16 in the auditorium of Alhama de Murcia. The association sent a communique to all its contacts, which announced its dissolution.

Since then until today, has been more than two months and people coordinábamos that association to the evidence that problems persist in our community (gardens drying up, broken lantern on the floor ...), we decided to pick up that association.

So I know that regularly, and whenever you want it, we will inform you on time by this means, of all matters of common interest.

Try the owners of Condado de Alhama, aware of the problems affecting our community. The solution to our community, through the union of all owners in a partnership or large platform that brings together and defend our common interests.

Our sole purpose, contrary to what someone can say he is only striving to improve our community, their contributions, our gardens, our resort, and so on. We have demonstrated since the first meeting of February 20 the community, where people who make this association began to know us and we will do so with your support.

All persons coordinábamos this partnership, we voluntarily submitted to presidents, to continue working for the community and we are currently chairing the 9 gardens.
In conclusion: As of now, taking actions in defense of our community. You know us as we fight over three months (February 20 to May 16) for the sake of it and succeed, but not anyone officially, a cheaper alternative budget to € 562,000. The final budget was approved by a majority of owners present at such meeting of community. In force as of May. Therefore the share of May and June, comes at an amount less than about 20-23 euros.
Thank them in advance for your attention in reading this letter and waiting for the hereafter with your support, you get to the next communication, a cordial greeting.

Condado de Alhama to August 2 of 2009

Atte: Condado de Alhama Association

well we're no wiser - anyone else ?

Chris & Alison

Escrito en inglés y español. 

Dear Owner,

The President of Level II of Jardin II and the President of Level III of Garden V in conformity with the status of the Law of Horizontal Property in vigor  (,article 16.1 of the Law of Horizontal Property with a coefficient of 29.98%) for Jardin I, have called upon a ”Junta Extraordinaria” (Extraordinary meeting) on the lst of August 2009 in order to cease RPM as Administrador for above mentioned Jardines.

We should like to explain the reasons leading us all in total 12 Jardines de Alhama for having taken the decision to cease the functions of Administrador of RPM.

Amongst other things are:

1.        Lack of experience. In spite of its commercial name “ Administrator of Large Properties”, they do not manage any other property, let alone big ones, except for ours.

2.        Lack of personnel and attention to customers in the afternoon.

3.        Inconpetence in finding solutions to the management they are dealing with 

(relashionship with STV, CISCOMPANY, lawns drying out, public lighting failure in parking area of Jardin 8 and 9, bad levelling of the surrounding area of swimming-pools, sewage of Jardin 12 in a miserable state, lack of pool lights since last October 2008  in Jardin 5, external ring-road in very poor conditions, access entries functioning by means of generators which do not allow a correct control of registration plate numbers of vehicles) etc….

     4.    During the first meeting of Presidents of level II and III on June the 6^th the first

            proposal made, with the approval of the Presidenta of Level I, was to make us

            pay an extra cost of the amount of 200.000 Euros for the painting of all pergolas

           of the resort. All of this, after some tough negotiations with some of the people 

           who are to-day Presidents, and present at that meeting.. Such negotiations with

           sub-contractors led us to lower the budget by 562.000 euros !.   

           This saving would calm down the discontented owners

           and brighten the perspectives for the future.

     5.  Consistent non compliance of the Law on Horizontal Property. Both on RPM

           side as well as by its Presidenta of Level I, representing Alhama Golf Resort.

           These non compliances are:

           Convene for the Junta of the 16^th of May, without the signature of the Presidenta.

           At this date, 10^th of August 2009, the minutes of said Junta have not been handed           

           over to the owners,  the Law on Horizontal Property stipulates that it should be 

           given within 10 days after the Junta.

           The call for the Junta of the 6^th of August for Presidents of Level I,II and III was

           not duly signed by the Presidenta, as the law requires it..

           At this date, 10^th of August 2009 no minutes of said meetings have been given to                                                     

           the owners.

6.        Other major reasons, ( being cautious we do not feel we should        

      reveal this in this writing).

7.  Informing you that we acted lawfully at the Junta of August the I st whereby we   

     ceased the functions of RPM as Administrator. This Junta complied with all legal

      requisits as stipulated in the Horizontal Property Law as well as by the status of our                                           

     Community. However our Presidenta of Level I continues to defend RPM and they 

     recently sent out a document to all owners of Jardines de Alhama creating a general  

     confusion as to her legal position as Administrador. The whole content of this 

     document is totally false as in no way can she determine if the Junta was legal or

     not. This competence is solely exclusive to a Judge or Court of Justice decision.

     We were Surprised by the behaviour of our Presidenta of Level I  towards us,

     owners, and the carelessness she has shown in the fullfilment of her functions as

     Presidenta of Level I. We would expect us to keep us correctly informed.

     This creates an overall illfeeling because we see no solutions to her problems

     and shows no concerns about our preocupations and complaints.

     Recently, she refused to acknowledge a registered letter presented by some twenty

     owners

     requesting the handing over of the minutes of the Junta of the 16^th of May, to

     solve the problem of the lack of water for the lawn, parking lights of Jardin 8 and 9,     

     etc… 

     This result is extremely saddening, After the expenses in the investment made in our

     resort and in the gardens, shortly after it was handed over to us, they are now in a

     dreadfull state. It is extremely difficult to understand for an owner, that after having

     paid an excessive community fee, we have such poor maintenance services.

     Neither RPM nor our Presidenta of Level I are demanding the solution to the mainte-

     nance companies, in order to solve these problems.. And if they attempt, they do not       

     reach the requested objective. But in turn,

      what she requests from our Presidents of Level II is that they punctually pay the

     bills to the people responsible for the miserable aspect of our garden drying out, thus

     taking us for fools. Because if the service rendered is not done correctly there is no

     obligation to pay.

     Please be assured that our sole interest is the wellbeing in our resort and see for

     yourselves if we have acted correctly and do not limitate yourselves to what is

    written in this document.

     We are waiting for your comments and moral support,

     Yours very friendly,

     Condado de Alhama 10^th of August 2009.

Estimado/a Propietario/a:

                Habiéndose convocado legalmente conforme a los Estatutos que rigen el complejo y la Ley de Propiedad Horizontal por el Presidente de nivel II de Jardines II y el Presidente de Nivel III de Jardín V (conforme al artículo 16.1 de la Ley de Propiedad Horizontal, con un coeficiente del 29.98 %) para Jardines I, la Junta Extraordinaria de 1 de agosto de 2009 en la que se cesó como administrador para estos Jardines a RPM.

Queremos exponerles las razones que nos han llevado a que Jardines de Alhama, con sus 12 jardines al completo, hayan decidido en dicha junta extraordinaria de 1 de agosto, el cese de RPM como administrador nuestro, entre otras:

1. Falta de experiencia. A pesar de su nombre comercial “administradores de grandes propiedades”, lo cierto es que no gestionan ninguna otra comunidad, ni muchísimo menos que sea de grandes dimensiones, exceptuando la nuestra.

2.- Falta de personal  y de atención en horario de tarde.

3.- Incompetencia en la solución de las gestiones que realizan (relaciones con STV- gestión, CISCOMPANY, jardines secándose, alumbrado sin funcionar en las plazas de garaje de los jardines 8 y 9, playas de las piscinas con desnivel, depuradora del jardín  12 en mal estado, luces de la piscina en jardín 5 que no funcionan desde octubre del 2008, anillo exterior en condiciones lamentables, los accesos del complejo funcionan con grupos electrógenos que no permiten controlar correctamente las matrículas de los vehículos, etc).

4.- Su primera propuesta en la reunión de presidentes de niveles II y III el 6 de junio, fue tratar, contando con  el visto bueno de  la  presidenta de nivel I, de hacernos cargar un gasto extra de 200.000 € en el pintado de todas las pérgolas del resort. Todo eso a pesar de haber estado presente en las duras negociaciones, con algunos de los hoy somos presidentes con diversas subcontratas,  que condujeron a un ahorro de 562.000 €. Ahorro que iba en la dirección de calmar el descontento entre los propietarios y que la morosidad en nuestro resort,  no se elevase. 

5.- Incumplimiento reiterado en la ley de Propiedad Horizontal. Tanto por parte de RPM, como de su presidenta de nivel I, en representación de Alhama Golf Resort. Estos incumplimientos se concretan en:

- Convocatoria a la junta del 16 de mayo, sin la firma de la presidenta.

- A 10 de agosto del 2.009, aún no se nos ha entregado el acta de dicha junta (siendo preceptiva su entrega en el plazo de diez días conforme a lo previsto legalmente en la Ley de Propiedad Horizontal).

- Convocatoria a la junta del 6 junio para los presidentes de niveles I, II y III, sin la firma de la presidenta.

- A 10 de agosto del 2.009, aún no se nos han entregado ninguna de las actas mencionadas.

6.- Otras razones de gran importancia, pero que por nuestro sentido de la prudencia, no desvelaremos en este escrito..

7.- Trasladarles que hemos actuado legalmente en la Junta de 1 de agosto en la cual cesamos a RPM como administrador nuestro. Esta Junta cumplió con todos los requisitos legales exigibles por la Ley de Propiedad Horizontal y los Estatutos de nuestra propiedad. Sin embargo, nuestra Presidenta de nivel I sigue defendiendo a RPM quien recientemente ha enviado un comunicado a todos ustedes como propietarios de jardines de Alhama por el cual crea una confusión generalizada respecto de su situación legal como administrador. Siendo totalmente falso el contenido de dicho escrito y arrogándose la competencia legal para determinar la legalidad o no de la Junta de 1 de agosto, competencia exclusiva de jueces y tribunales.

Sorprendidos por el comportamiento que nuestra presidenta de nivel I, está teniendo con nosotros, los propietarios, y la dejadez manifiesta en el ejercicio de sus funciones como presidenta de nivel I puesto que entendemos que no mantiene correctamente informados a los propietarios, provocando una situación de malestar general puesto que no se ven soluciones a sus problemas y que rehusa conocer sus inquietudes y quejas. Recientemente ha rehusado acusar recibo de un escrito presentado por unos veintitantos vecinos en el que le solicitaban entrega del acta de la Junta del 16 de mayo, solución al problema de falta de riego en el césped, luces del aparcamiento de los jardines 8 y 9, etc.

Resulta penoso, que después de las cuantiosas inversiones que se han realizado en nuestro resort y sus jardines, al cabo de un  tiempo de su entrega, estos ofrezcan este lamentable y deteriorado estado. Es muy difícil de entender como propietarios, que después de estar pagando una cuota excesiva de comunidad, tengamos estos servicios de  mantenimiento tan malos.

Ni RPM, ni nuestra presidenta de nivel I, exige a nuestras compañías de mantenimiento la solución a estos problemas. Y si lo exigen, no consiguen el objetivo deseado. Lo que si exige a nuestros Presidentes de nivel II, es que se les pague puntualmente, aún a pesar de que son los responsables de que nuestros jardines estén secándose, tomándonos por tontos, ya que si no se presta el servicio correctamente no hay obligación de pagar.

Tengan ustedes la completa seguridad, de que sólo deseamos el bienestar  en  nuestro resort y juzguen si hemos actuado correctamente o no a la vista de lo expresado en este comunicado.

En espera de sus comentarios y su apoyo moral, reciban un cordial saludo.

Condado de Alhama a 10 de Agosto del 2.009

Mr Kev1:
The reunion has been completely legal.
RPM does not know what he says.
The actions we are taking against the RPM.
The chairs are responsible people.
There is no single type of interés.Nuestro interest is to fight for our resort.
We were not dry.
Do you know that the lanterns are arranged after one year?
Do you know why they have fixed the lights in the garage 8 and 9 after 8 months?

If you need further explanation, pidanoslas and I'll be.

Greetings.
 
 
 

 

I think there is a lot more to be understood here before people can stand together on either side of the fence. The revelations that are coming out now back up my gut feeling that RPM are inadequate and incapable of representing the owners interests (a lot of the things listed by preside 5 are certainly there and obvious for anyone to see). I have always beleived RPM are a puppet for Polaris and are in no way strong enough to challenge the things that have not been in our best interests. My own personal experience of RPM is that I have not even been able to get something as simple as a copy of a list of communal faults logged for Jardines 8. This is after 3 face to face visits while at Condado in July and 3 e-mails since.

For those that think RPM are doing a good job based on the evidence of say one trip over to Condado and seeing a few gardeners out cutting grass and watering gardens etc, - I think you/we need to understand all the underlying issues. I also do not know anything of the other proposed management company but recognise that those people in perrmanant residence at Condado are the ones who can really see the issues, not us who only go once every 2 or 3 months.

As far as I can see, the only positive outcomes that we as owners have benefitted from so far are those that were instigated by the association of owners that formed around the same time as RPM came to light. As mentioned in previous posts, we need to get the relevant information communicated to the owners in an official manner as soon as possible.

I, personally require a lot more to come out into the open before I feel confident to stand at either side of the fence with any great level of conviction.

Regards,

I am going to telephone Polaris tomorrow to ask them what the situation is.  This confusion is not at all healthy.  I agree that we elected the Presidents and am happy that they work well on our behalf  - eleven out of 12 independently elected Jardin Presidents voting the same way surely must have good reason to feel the way they do.  However - as I mentioned before, I won't be supplying any bank details etc until I get proper confirmation from PW.  I will post their response tomorrow. Arlene

I agree that we need more information before standing on either side of the fence. I want to work through the presidents network. I also know that a meeting between a few Jardines presidents / residents not communicated to others does not properly represent me as an owner on NARANJOS. They should be working through the correct channels and not just be inclusive of those that agree with their point of view.

It is so frustrating !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Billbo

You have inadvertently hit the nail on the head.

There should be no fence.

The only fence here is the one created apparently by Jardines officials acting independantly of the whole of the resort.

I am happy that the elected officials do the job to the best of  their abilities but something like this must be for the WHOLE i repeat again the WHOLE of the resort.

This is what needs rectifying and the sooner people explain WHY THEY ACTED INDEPENDANTLY as if there was a fence across the Resort seperating Jardines from the rest that is what I want to know so this whole dam stupid episode does not happen again.

I dont want to know at this stage about RPM or PW or any other contractor or company.

I will repeat.

WHY HAVE CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS ACTED AS IF JARDINES WAS A SEPERATE RESORT ON A SERVICE WHICH EVERYONE RECEIVES AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO PREVENT THIS SITUATION HAPPENING AGAIN.

I dont want others speaking up for them and telling me what a good job they are doing as obviously from this catastrophic incident some are not!.

Finally

We can do without all of this infighting when the resort is finally taking shape (a Bar, significant supermarket, golf course etc)

I accept that someone should also be getting the fundamentals right and maintaining the Resort as per their obligations but if there is a problem no doubt all of  the Presidents will agree this and take the corrective action by meeting as a representative group, identify issues, set deadlines for resolution, and measure performance.

I have no indication this formal process has been implimented. If it has I apologise.

If this does not resolve the situation then there must be a formal escalation process which involves financial compensation or 'penalties.'

The Presidents must have the right to call a triparty meeting with PW, RPM and resolve any issues surely.

I did say I wouldnt post on this subject again but as the discussion was wavering off the main issue I felt I had to comment and reiterate what I thought should be done.

This needs sorting or we may as well build a flippin fence now!!!!!!

rpm are useless.has anyone received an email back from them.have they done anything to lower our fees.no.the sooner they go the better imho.they are a polaris puppet organisation and should never have been elected.end of.

Hi Not Smooth - I understand where you are coming from but Jardines has been up and running for over a year now and a lot of leg-work has been done ahead of Los Naranjos etc coming on-stream.  Including time for the residents there to see how good/bad RPM are performing.  If it benefits Jardines then there's a very high chance that Naranjos etc will also benefit and, indeed the resort as a whole.  Surely this can only be a good thing??  Polaris are responsible for the new supermarket, bars etc - not RPM so none of this side of the development will  be affected.  I am going on the 8 out of 10 cats theory that all of these people, from many walks of life and who are - primarily  - Spanish and able to fight like hell for us (as seen at the initial meetings - they are most tenacious) - cannot all be wrong..........

Remember Arlene,

You are not likely to get an unbiased response from Polaris. I am sure they would paint a rosy picture of what RPM are doing (or not, as seems to be the case) . Here's how I see it:-

Polaris appoint RPM as a company with no previous urbanisation management  to manage Condado with a nice little arrangement in place where they don't create too many waves and make things difficult for Polaris to meet their obligations to deliver a fit-for purpose product. Create a smokescreen for a while and keep fobbing off the owners enquiries over communal issues for a long enough period of time until the warranty expires. Then Polaris will just act dumb & ignorant and say that faults are now the duty of the community to put right. The case of the sewage issues of Jardine 12 would be a classic case of this. Any re-work needed here is likely to be very costly & disruptive with gardens/roads being dug up. If Polaris are allowed to 'slopey shoulder' the likes of this, they certainly will. Other things like paths & pavements subsiding are evident around Jardines 8 and only become so after several months. This is down to the builders inadequate method of construction, not a few dozen people walking up & down to te supermarket each day ! There must be countless other things that we should be getting sorted out but are just sitting there with the clock ticking.

Just think how much money is actually involved with the purchase revenue going to Polaris for each single blockof the apartments - absoloutley staggering sums of money, and for that we want more than a clean swimming pool and grass cut twice a week. We want the faults that are there repairing-we have paid them well enough for the product.

I have witnessed nothing at all so far that arrures me RPM are getting up off their a**** and getting after these issues with any vigour. To me, they are just playing along with Polaris as all was meant to be in the master plan when they were assigned the management contract.

Regards,

Yeah - I am sure PW will tell me a load of cock n bull but I will give it a go anyway.  I seem to recall being told by PW last year that the company which installed the sewage system had something like a 16 month 'guarantee' on the work so if PW didn't get the issues fixed by this year we were all goosed!!  It was PW who told me this so goodness knows why they wouldn't have made a mammoth effort to resolve this for us as it was a sub-contractor who did this part of the work.  Jardin 13 is a bit whiffy too 1st thing in the morning and when I was over in March it was clear that raw sewage had, somehow, come up the waste pipe onto the roof solarium at some point.  Bloody marvellous eh??

Hi Not Smooth,

With you there on those most critical of issues. It should be one unified resort and it should be combined effort on behalf of the whole of the Condado development. After all, who wants one part of the resort to be well maintained and as it should be, and when they go along to the neighbouring phase it has been neglected and not presenting the image we all want to see.

I am one for giving credit where it is due, and on that count I champion the cause to all & sundry for where Polaris have done well. But, on the other hand I am not going to sit idly by while they take the p*** & neglect their obligations to put any of their, or their sub-contractors faults right. Polaris will absoloutley love apathy and ignorance being displayed by the owners as this will allow them to get off scott-free with millions of euro's worth of work that the onus will then fall upon us to stump-up. Call me cynical, but I don't see 'ethically responsible' as being one of the top bullet points in Polaris or any other Spanish builder's priority list. This is why it is critically important to get the facts out into the open so we can all make a educated evaluation of the situation and try not to make a lasting judgement on snippets of conflicting information. We all must try and get anyone we know who is an owner ANYWHERE on Condado to get themselves familiarised with the situation as soon as possible.

To that effect, I appeal to anyone who is up to speed with all of the issues to give us some information where we can all collectively send our personal e-mails so then at least we may be able to view the information that is considered too sensetive for an open forum.

Regards,

Thanks for the posts but we are again getting stuck in the detail.

RPM maybe the best thing since sliced bread or the worst contractor on the earth

I accept that what happens on the Jardines may happen in LN

IRRELEVANT

IT IS HOW NOT WHAT WE GET CHANGES MADE

All action needs to to be taken as a whole resort and not part of it

END OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Not Smooth,

Let's get his right. This is not your own personal message board, it is an open forum for discussion of issues between anyone who so desires. The problem is NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE KNOW THE DETAIL.

END OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I take it applies to your own personal contribution. Please leave the rest of us to decide when and where will will end our discussions.

Calm down Gentlemen, take a deep breath and count to 10, remember we're all on the same side here. :)

Thanks to Preside 5 for posting the Jardin President's reponse.

So does this mean that, at this moment in time, we currently have 2 management companies running the Jardins? 

Cappielow,

Exactly the type of thing I and others are trying to find out. We can do without self-proclaimed 'terminator of thread' people typing in bold text that they consider enough said.

Regards,