Condado - the signature course.

Hi all

• Agree with most others that it is a great layout with tremendous potential.
• The greens are superb.
• Bunker positioning spot on with pristine sand.
• Lakes looking good now fully topped up.

• A quarter of a mile hike from pro shop ('club house') to the first tee.
• When you arrive there, the approach to the first tee is nothing short of abysmal. J.N. signature course = quality & exclusivity - far from it I am afraid. The tee marker sits in a rubble strewn embankment with sparse planting & inadequate landscaping. At the back & sides of the tees we just have bare gravel or an array of weeds trying to get a foot-hold. First impressions count. 
• The practice putting green area is surrounded by......................nothing. Compare that to La Torre where there are abundant evergreen shrubs & flowering plants to one side and fountains with decorative seating areas to the other then you realise we are on another planet (Mars) as far as the finishing touches are concerned. Even El Valle which has just been open a couple of years is very much more picturesque around these areas and in fact everywhere across the course.
• The area in the centre of the course that looks like it was a builders compound is still there as a blot on the landscape as you are walking the fairways or getting ready to tee off from the elevated tees.
• So, we were led to believe that Condado would be based on a dessert theme (like El Valle), so let's get some dessert theming going on then ! Get some cacti and those spikey leaved plants indigenous to the area planted around the course. You see plenty of them growing wild in the surrounding fields and by the sides of the motorways as you drive around. Polaris have thousands & thousands of plants stored in the compounds just over the fence from Condado, so they need to get some in and around our course sharpish. I am quite sure paying visitors (at 65 euro's per round) will not be keen to return quickly just because the layout is good and the potential is there. It will be more like 'Oh we will go there again in a year or two when it is 'FINISHED'.

Hi all

Weve just had four days at Condado and i agree with all the points Billbo makes.The course is very tough the greens fast and the surfaces superb but the course does have an untidy look about it and is not quite as pleasing on the eye as say Hacienda del Alamo.All in all potential for a great course but needs some finishing touches.

I agree on the points made about surroundings. There is a lot to do, and the course really needs a clubhouse that will start tieing the practice area to the course. The good thing is though that the actual playing area is fantastic. That would be very hard to fix if it wasn`t good from the beginning. I have read some feedback on Norway`s primary golf website, and the praise the course receives is endless. Also talked to one of the pros playing the Hi5 tour. He stated that it was probably the best course he had ever played.

One challenge is of course that the area surrounding the golfcourse is enormous and it takes a lot of planning, money and work to get it right.

I think we need to have patience while pushing gently. A course like this will never be left in this state.

Hi,

Just got back from 3 days on condado and played 48 holes of the signature course and it is a real quality layout we were very impressed.  The course is very undulating and visually decieving and clever, with cavernous bunkering and some of the truest putting greens you will ever play on even if i think jack had a few too many san miguels when he designed a few of the greens especially on the back nine.  Be warned if you miss the greens here you can easily take 3 or 4 more shots to get it in the cup, very very tricky.

The fairways and rough just need time, time to mature and thicken up because there are some horrendous lies to be had in a lot of places, however they have done a cracking job on the design and all the holes are a joy to look at and walk through as I would have expected having played a few nicklaus signature courses.

I will agree on the rest of it though, the first day we played I was very, very surprised by the areas around and between the holes and tees, to put it bluntly they have just let it go and have made no effort what so ever to tidy it up there are weeds every where.  A jack nicklaus signature golf course looking like that, I don't think he would be amused if he knew and I saw no one working on the course the time we were there.

Any way I will give em a chance, it's only been open 2 months, I'm back out at the end of may and I would seriously be expecting all of that to have been cleared and landscaped properly by then.

I though could not get bored of playing it, it will be a real cracker in a few years and a club house would really be the icing on the cake.

Hi,

Would like to chuck my views in

I have played all the Polaris courses including the Signature course and am a member of the Belfry back in the UK so used to great greens and decent course.

I actually agree with some of the comments on untidyness but as regards the course itself, the greens, the fairways and the layout - its stunning and the best course on the Polaris trail.

Bear in mind that it has only just opened and when the clubhouse is done and they tidy it up this will be a fantastic experience and the fact that property does not line every holes it makes for a very different round of golf.

If you look at Riquleme now compared to last September its so much neater and actually a very good golf course.

Im convinced this will be amazing (and no I dont work for Polaris )

From reading these posts, it would seem that as yet, nobody has any ideas or plans on when the course and the surroundings will be landscaped.

Has anyone heard anything, or are we all just assuming it will happen ?

Hi Billbo - if you have photo's of the course and practice areas two years ago and then one year ago and then today have a look and see how far CDA has come in that time. 

I think you will agree by the same time given to EVGR (2 years)  & LTGR (3 years +) etc. CDA course will be ahead by miles. Just a little patience is all thats needed. 

I think it's great and can't wait to get back.  Regards Tim

When I played the course in January there was a team of people doing the work and they said its a rolling program. Has anybody seen any activity in the last month?

Hi Tim (& rest of folks).

Yes, Tim, I do have quite an archive of how the course has come on over the last year or two. I do not for one minute doubt that the course layout is the best of the Polaris circuit. I tell this to everyone back home and also the friends I visit on the other Polaris courses. Patience is a virtue I know, but I remember these grasses being planted on Condado over a year ago now and it was obvious then that without decent soil to bed them into and watering until they got established, there would only ever be one result - dead plants & trees. The frustrating thing is that we can all see this happening but what are the course management team doing letting this carry on to this day. I see it as 1 year wasted that the course should have been maturing up and we are going to have to start from scratch (excuse the pun, golfers ) again.

My point about the surroundings of the practice putting area is, granted the green itself is spot on but we just have this flat gravel ground around with the area that is used as a car park beyond that. Not very becoming to say the least and those living in the penthouses deserve a better view than that they are getting right now. It would not have taken much to screen this off and provide a decent level of landscaping around the putting greens. This is the first impression any visitor will get of Condado. When you look at the La Torre practice putting area, it is not something that has taken 4 years to appear. It was created right at the start with mature palms, shrubs & grasses which have now thickened up nicely to leave a very impressive back-drop.

God knows how long it will be before we  get our club house now but in the mean time you would expect them to compensate a little by at least making the entrance to the course and putting green areas considerably more attractive than they are now. I just hope that anyone in that management team also recognises this and once the finacial shackles are released one way or another they get cracking and bring the standard of the golf course up to it's previously promoted level.

Regards,

I left about 20 balls on the course, did anyone find them?

Yes thanks Mark

10E a dozen when you come back!

Barry

Sounds a bargin Barry, put me down for 2 doz next week

Phil

Agree with Bilbo- the course has some rough edges and some interior spots could benefit from landscaping but aspects of it are fantastic and I hope the PW recover from their financial blip and set to and get everything sorted sooner rather than later. I know we have people renting from about late May and they are expecting 5* across the board. Apartment aside I do feel some of the perimeter of the golf course is very rough and the parking area is little more than rough land. I fully understand Pw's position and am not bitter against them regarding the downturn as I actually think they have done their best at CdA in the present circumstances. Building trade wise I know how terrible things have been. I know individuals will have their own tales of woe against PW and we all know communication isnt their selling point but I hope this month we hear good news followed by positive moves with our resort. I understand the club house is to be built by Intercontinental rather than PW so I hope they are faring better within the present market forces.

Daniels,

''Jack N' designed CDA course, so whether JN likes what's going on with PW or not he can not remove his name from our course or his companies name from the rest of the PW courses. It is a fact tha JN designed our course no matter what happens the fact remains''

Bit like saying Arsenal Emirates stadium was designed to meet a certain specification but ended up like lil'-ol' Hartlepool F.C's stadium - cracking pitch but as far as the stands & terraces go, well not quite up to the same spec'. Emirates any more ? I don't think so.

Endorsements can, and do get taken away if the named client is not happy that it reflects thier symbolism with quality. Liken this to the sponsors of Tiger Woods !

Take a look at this link posted by tez and compare the development in Morroco which has pretty much the same weather pattern as our little neck of the woods. http://www.nicklaus.com/design/search_under.php?crit_sort=1&name=&state=&4_option=3&country=Spain&submit=Search

JN can & certainly will remove his endorsement from CDA if it does not meet the specification, otherwise his signature brand would have no value or standing at all.

Regards,

Bilbo, you can't compare these as Emirates will have paid Arsenal alot of Money  to have name associated with the stadium. Also the ground was already complete. The difference is Polris world will have paid JN alot of money for him to be associated with the project, this is not the same thing. It's like comparing a Horse to a Bull. You have made reference to Tiger Woods again not the same thing. He has been paid and hasn't delivered so therefor they no longer pay him. The only way Jack would be able to get out of it is if PW do go bankrupt otherwise they can and will sue him for breach of contract. Remember it's offplan so PW can get away with what they want.

Jack did design the course and that will always be the case, but there will be a clause in the contract that if he is not happy with certain things he will be able to prevent the course from using his name.

If polaris breach his minimum standards they will lose the right to use his name.

Although Polaris will have paid Jack a hefty sum for designing the course, there will be onging fees payable to continue to use his name, if these are not paid, again Jack will withdraw his name from the course.

brf,

Without getting too technical, I was simplifying it as a simple analogy in laymens terms (that's where HUFC came in) that most people would understand (not a dig by the way). Again, Emirates is a convenient image to spring to mind for most people of a superb example of style (both the airline & the stadium). The relationship of who pays who is insignificant in this example. Crux of the matter is as Darren rightly points out - don't reach the standards, don't get the endorsement - don't get the golfing traffic. I'm quite sure Jack's advisors from Europe already have him well informed on the status.

Finally, Polaris can't get away with what they want, that's why they are in bankrupcy protection.

Regards,

The course will still have been designed by JN no matter what happens to PW. In years to come 10, 20 years it will still be design by JN unless someone changes the design. Still being the fact JN designed it personally.

If an Architech designs a building but the builder cocks it up it was still designed by the Architect. Thats how it works.

Thats all I'm saying.

Daniels, your 100% correct, Jack designed this course only an idiot would disagree with you.

However if polaris(or whoever takes over) dont keep up their end of the deal, they will not be able to use his name, it will no longer be the Nicklaus Trail, Condado will not be able to be called a Nicklaus Signature course.

Condado will lose prestige, people will pay good money to play on a Nicklaus Signature course, without the name there is less chance of attracting the major tournements, less rental oppotunity, less tourism.

Keeping the Nicklaus name is very important.

Where I used to live Mercedes built a large dealership, after a few years it became a mitsubishi dealership. Yes it was Mercedes Designed, Yes it was Mercedes built, but you go and buy a car from their today and it wont be the same quality as a Mercedes.

I think there are two different aspects in regard to whether JN walks away from Polaris.

On the playing side the course will always be excellent as it was designed by JN and nothing will change this.  Doesn't matter if he takes his name away from the advertising/marketing etc or not.

On the commercial side it could have a significant impact as JN's name is a drawcard in the industry and can help put a course on the map.  This could possibly impact future development of the course facilities.

So I suppose your view on the impact of JN staying involved depends on whether you are looking at the course from a playing perspective or looking at the course as an important piece of bringing people into the resort as a whole.