Hallo

Thanks Riccers. I have emailed Anna in Granada so see what she says. I will post the reply.

Thanks Jonny

I have been told that Fairways will not be completed until at least April 2009.

Cheers,

Jetdog.

Hi Everyone,

I just got back from visiting the Medina complex on Friday 14th March 2008. Please feel free to ask me any questions you wish, may be we can all help one another out. I also have lots of pictures that are just a few days old.

I am purchasing in ME23, ground floor, phase 1, and I suspect that to complete early April. Some of the apartments still didn't have kitchens or light fittings in them, and the ground workd around the pool was no where near complete. I also spoke to one of the ladies running the Guaranteed rental scheme face to face - always a good way to judge the honesty and integrity of a person. Sarah Bowden of Royal Executive - who are running the guaranteed rental schemes - seemed honest and had answers to a variety of my tricky questions. I believe rent is paid 6 months in arrears to cover themselves should an apartment not get rented out for brief periods. Margaret Corley was back in the UK talking directly to the tour operators, I believe.

It does look like we will pay for wear and tear, but not damage, obviously - a similar situation to dealing with any rental company in the UK. We also pay for laundry out of the rental contract, I specifically asked that the 5% is gross, and we have decuctions from that, and I did see an estimate that about 70% of that 5% will be paid to us. After speaking to everyone I was left still pleasantly surprised. With a global housing market down turn, we have good valuations on ME23, (I believe the valuations will be complete this week), and a near enough 5% pa yield could make these properties look attractive - well that is my hope any way. It keeps me from getting less stressed in the current climate anyway!

If you need any more information then please post a message.

If this is true then I would not be happy with the situation at all. The fact that they are still being vague about the guaranteed rental figures means that they appear to be making things up in their favour as they go along.

Also 70% of 5% equals 3.5% yield. Once you take into account that the rent is paid 6 months in arrears then the rental yield drops to about 3%. This is well short of what was advertised when the properties were offered for sale.

The terms of the rental agreement as promised have also changed. I can't believe that the reason they gave for paying rent 6 months in arrears was to cover themselves in case an apartment was not rented out for a brief period. I thought that was the point of a guaranteed rental scheme (taking the risk out of renting by guaranteeing it will be rented whether it is occupied or not). Who do they think has to cover the mortgage for the 6 months?

Could someone also clarify whether the rental company that is managing this is still Royal Executive or has it changed to Royal Peninsula or are they using 2 companies now? Does anyone also know why the Royal Executive website (www.royalexecutive.com) is now a banned site advertising Viagra, etc? This is all very worrying.

Perhaps Margaret Corley could clarify the situation regarding the guaranteed rental scheme and whether she still thinks that the managed rental scheme will achieve a rental yield of between 10 and 15%.

Hi JetDog,

I had an email on the Guaranteed Rental Scheme providing bank details for payments. The email came from an address at RoyalExecutive.com. I checked the website (www.royalexecutive.com) this morning, but did not find it to be banned, in fact it did have information on rental schemes of various types. I have also looked up who actually owns the web site, and where they are registered - thanks to a very valuable friend in IT:

  Joaquin Jerez Aragones
  Avda. Severo Ochoa  28
  Ed. Marina Marbella 6A
  Marbella  Malaga 29600
  ES
  Domain name: ROYALEXECUTIVE.COM 

The bank details for the payments for furniture are under an account called "Royal Peninsula Vacations SL", with an address of, Bank BBVA, Puerto Deportivo, Local 31, 29600 Marbella, Malaga, Spain.I am a little confused as to why the bank account is under Royal Peninsula and the Web site under Royal Executive - I might phone up and enquire on this one. I agree that the rental terms aren't quite as good as they were glossed up to be. It will be interesting to see what the actual yield is after "overheads" are taken out. Either way I'm keeping a close eye on any developments.

Hi Guys,

Still finding it difficult to understand when the completion date of medina 23 is, I was origanally told that it would be December 2009 and to my shock horror have just found out its next month from reading these posts..

Should of learnt by now after living in Spain 12 years that you cannot rely on the developers, lawyers, agents etc...

When is it going to completion?

Thanks

Next month will be the completion date for Medina 23, which is the first phase of Medina Elvira Golf.  Both Fairways and Tee 17 (and probably some of the others) are meant to be completed mid 2009.  Maybe this is why you seem surprised.

Thought you all might like to see some pictures of ME23 taken last week....

Inside ME23 Phase 1, taken last week.....

Many thanks to tax exile for the pics, this confirms what another purchaser had told me about the status when he visited early March, and I agree with with Jets comments

so clarifications and my comments

1) ME23 Elvira is now coming up for completion, builder has been trying for this month but photos on this site and info rec'd indicate to me that May/jun is more likely at earliest

Now to the main stuff-

2) Remember you are liable for the mortgage as soon as you sign for it, so make sure its correctly linked to the rental companies future payments, ie if you accept getting paid 6 months in arrears instead of monthly as promised - then at least know when the first guaranteed payment is( see points below) - .

3) make sure there are no get outs on the basis that the surrounding areas , like pools and gyms are not complete, thereby giving the rental Co an out on payments to you but you're still tied in to the mortgage payments, get them linked.

4) be aware the certificate of habitation can be applied for but can take months or years to get - another potential get out for the rental company

5) If you don't like getting paid 6 months in arrears then tell them so and fight it, it was not the original advertised deal

6) is it a guaranteed payment - check this out and get to see the contract first - ie who is guaranteeing it ?

 Conclusion from the above - don't sign until you are fully satisfied with the deal, 3% is not what we signed up for - we signed for 5% paid each month plus index linked and guaranteed.

As to the companies involved - somewhat convoluted - but here is what I know

a) Peninsula Project Management  (PPM) - this is ran by the MD - Gaspar Lino - this is the developer and builder of a number of the individual developments on the total development area, there are others and you can find them easiiy on the web via google searches. - PPM are the main developer who you are buying from for the rental management schemes- and they advertise and offer the rental schemes as part of their sales mechanism (I believe there are some developments on the overall site where PPM act as sales agents for other developers - not sure on the rental offers there) - important to note they are not the same company offering the rental scheme, and your purchase contract will not make reference to it - future purchasers might want to think about this.- happy to offer advice offline

b) Royal Executive (RE), this is the company owned by Margaret Crawley, they are supposed to take the lead on the rental management of the properties in conjunction with PPM above.

c) Royal Peninsular (RP), is a completely seperate organisation - from what I undertand this is listed in Companies house in Spain by Margaret Corley, initially my understanding was that  this is a joint co of Peninsula and Royal Executive - but whatever - they are the ones identified as responsible for organising the furnishings and for the management fee,  they are supposed to look after and manage the property and offer either the fixed rental (5%) or the variable rental scheme for the years you sign up for.

d) Peninsular Vacations S.L Now it seems the actual rental contract is between you and this company. this is a recently created company in Spain, with Margaret Crawley listed as the owner, and as the SL indicated has limited liability - however the other Co's were S.Ls as well ??.

On the Web site for Royal Executive - yes I also got the banned web site messages for ages and ages and gave up looking - but it depends - if you use google you are getting out of  date links to the wrong site, if you type in the link then you go straight there and not to an older google link,..... - so it is online, but it adds little value from what I can see .

Peninsula PM site has always been reasonable

Peninsula Vacations SL site does not exist from what I can see

Folks

Just a final point - NET is NET is NET, ie there are no deductions afer NET, otherwise its not NET !!

unless of course you drill a hole in the jam jar after packaging it.....!!! which would make it less than promised - (and having done so - of course its still not NET) 

-   we need to prevent this -

I rest my case on NET - you need to re-read the original adverts.

Deep

I'm on Medina Golf so I'm a little further away from completion and don't have to decide just yet.  I don't understand the need for the 6 month arrears in payment either as I thought they said the Guaranteed Rental Scheme was insurance backed, in which case there is no risk to them if they get blank periods.  Also a return of 3.5% puts it in the same category of return as the  French ski leasebacks I rejected because the return wasn't good enough!  At least those offered 3 weeks usage though and Medina doesn't allow any if you take the guaranteed rental.  The tax we'll pay on rentals in Spain is higher too as in France you can offset mortgage interest payments and you can claim your VAT back. 

It's beginning to look to me that the variable rental route will be the only reasonable course to take, as I'm convinced that will give a better return, although perhaps not in the first couple of years.  Also it's more reasonable to expect to have to pay for wear and tear if you are at least getting some use yourself.  On the other hand it is completely unreasonable to pay for wear and tear if you are not even using it.  The French leaseback schemes do not usually expect you to pay anything other than the "tax fonciere". 

I would also suggest that everyone contacts Margaret Corley herself to discuss this unsatisfactory situation with her. If everyone complains then perhaps something will be done.

Jet

I agree with Jet, if that contract had any input from a clients solicitor then they should be debarred.

Cardiffan, interesting about the comparison to the French set up as I know others who looked at those and decided the returns were not worth it, and here we are in a similar boat. I think you are right to stay away from the variable scheme for the first few years, but then again it would not be a good idea to sign up for a guaranteed scheme that is not what was promised as we will have to live with and fund it for some considerable time.

We should not foget that the developer was also a party to the advertsing of the guaranteed scheme, perhaps its time to bring pressure to bear there as well.

On the guarantee, its now becoming apparent to me that its not actually a "guarantee", its just an insurance policy in case the holiday company does not pay, if there are no contracts with the holiday companies then what - answers not required !

Deep

Hi I'm Vikki and I'm buying an apartment on Fairways with some other family members.

Just a note to say that I am going to visit the Medina Elvira in the next couple of weeks while I am on holiday in Estepona so hopefuly when I return I will be able to post a few pictures of Fairways.

We have had some difficulties in finding out information from all parties recently due to the fact that the third party who introduced us to the development, Andalucian Homes/Spanish Quarters, has fallen off the radar and left us without any contacts. However, I have been in e-mail and phone contact with Margaret at Royal Peninsula and Mar at Peninsula PM as well as my lawyers and have found that they have all been very helpful with answers to my queries.

My brother and sister-in-law visited the site yesterday and they said development has come on since we were there last (April last year). The main construction shell is now built and you can really get a feel for the aspect of the whole development and the views we will have. Jose Garcia showed them round and has said that the completion date is Sept 2009. However, I have previously been told by his office that it will be sooner, around April 2009, so your guess is as good as mine! On another note apparantly the actual 'fairways' on the gof course are very narrow, so i would suggest that you get some practice in now if you want to play and win!

Vik

We are in the process of purchasing an apartment at  Medina Elvira on Tee 17. The development is due for completion in July 2009.

I am getting a little concerned after reading some of the items in this thread as we have not recieved any information about rental agreements.

Should we have received anything from Peninsula? Or should we have made the initial contact with them regarding rental agreements?

Any information would be very useful. Thanks.

Caroline.

Hi Caroline,

I was never sent the documentation last year regarding the rental agreement and wasn’t notified by my lawyer or the developer who I purchased direct with.

Since I have been told that I can take the guaranteed rental, they was doing a big favour for me, but after looking at it doesn’t seem that attractive, which was pretty much why we purchased in the development.

My lawyer has also said that its worthless and not worth the paper its printed on, so now left with the dilemma of what to do with the unit.

Knowing that it is not going sell for at least the foreseeable future, as the market is so dire in Spain, I will be stuck with renting out personally, as with the variable option, I really cant see them marketing my unit if they have to get a return on guaranteed options, can you.

Since I have put the unit back on the market with the developer who have shown an ounce of interest of selling the unit on for me, even though I only want the original purchase price.

Just seems like another scam by a unscrupulous developer.

Although the rental schemes offered as an OPTION on projects being developed by Peninsula Project Management are not run by the developer  themselves but by an independent rental management company, Peninsula is justifiably proud to advertise the schemes as a value added service to their clients, as these schemes  are exclusive to Peninsula developments.

 Due to the building quality of our developments and the choice of locations, the independent rental management company has chosen Peninsula as the exclusive developer in Spain for its rental agreements with tour operators.The rental management company has adopted the name Royal Peninsula because it exclusively deals with Peninsula projects, even though the two are otherwise unrelated.

 As not all property owners who purchase a property from Peninsula wish to adhere or take advantage of any rental plan, it is not normal procedure to provide purchasers with information of rental plans unless they request it.  With thousands of clients and units sold, the developer cannot guess who wishes to take advantage of the rental OPTIONS on offer. It is up to the client to make the initial contact with Peninsula regarding rentals, once the client approaches Peninsula to request information, they will find Peninsula staff very helpful in forwarding information or if they cannot answer the client’s questions, they will put the client in contact with the rental management company, Royal Peninsula (Phone +34 952 768 302)

 Because clients are engaging an independent rental management company to manage their rentals, it stands to reason that there is going to be an annual fee. Once again I stress that when the client signs a purchase contract, they sign a contract for the purchase of a property, and the guaranteed rental is an OPTION which was offered to the client at the time of purchase; as an option, some purchasers wish to engage that service, others do not, and therefore it is not a service which is included in the purchase price of the property.There is a third party involved, Royal Peninsula (+34 952 768 302), and therefore it is to that third party that the client must pay an annual fee.  

 As stated by Margaret Corley from Royal Peninsula (+34 952 768 302) in an earlier post in this forum, the final rental contracts are the result of input from several lawyers as many clients originally involved their lawyers, and in answering their questions and suggestions, the final contract took shape.

To summarize:

Peninsula sells the properties- Peninsula is not in any way involved with rentals or rental management. When purchasing a property with Peninsula Project Management, the contract the client signs is a contract for the acquisition of a property and the price paid to Peninsula exclusively includes the property.