Hi - let us introduce ourselves

Looking at a possible swap to MCC and seing Aldea, Huma and MCC next weekend.

Does anyone have any news or reviews re Mazzaron Country Club..??, in all likely hood I'm pulling out as the realisation is I won't be able to use a potential villa of mine until late 2009 or 2010 and thats taking the p**s.

Parador Spain say a decision is imminient, Parador England seem less positive and if anything seem to be pushing me in the direction of MCC.

Someone here was very positive about switching to MCC and had done so a while ago.  It is a lovely area.  But do have a look on the discussion boards - they do not have many of the promised facilities and it could be many, many years before they do.

Also, you will see that there has not been significant appreciation of these properties since they were built.  Many are offered fully furnished at very reasonable prices.  This is good of course, in terms of purchasing now.

Bri  

Nothing wrong with Mazzaron Country Club and from what I hear the owners all seem quite happy

I think there are some problems over the social area...not quite to the standard you would expect at present

I prefer ACC and surrounding area myself but I suppose that is natural as I have bought near Huercal Overa

MCC is not the only alternative and as you are going over you may as well look at other alternatives...some nice re sales and we have a builder who does not start marketing until the villas are 3 months to completion.... So whilst buyers can still pick the fittings they want , there is no long wait to move in

Avoid Camposol unless you do a lot of research and buy with full knowledge!!!

Now is as good a time to buy as any!

I've seen plenty of unhappy posts from MCC owners which talk about unfinished/sub standard  facilities at Mazarron.

I know I sound really cynical, but I tend to view positive posts about Huma as posts from Huma plants/employees.

One of the posters off here and Viva has been after Huma for over 4 years over MCC (he/she is pursuing things through Andersons, as am I)  so a word of advice:

Look before you leap

Not so with this poster but I am a customer....buyer at ACC!!!

From what I know the probelms centre around the social club area but sometimes it is better not to slate a development unless you know the full facts

Which is why I did refer to 'the standard of the social club area not being up to standard!!!

And there have been lots of posts on various forums by owners of MCC who have seemed happy  

It is not for example like ' dare I say it' Camposol!!! 

AND if you go to the general discussions thread here, on EOS, you will find many posts supporting Camposol.  It is what you want and your own expectations, and how long you are prepared to wait for facilities.

Bri  

Well, all I can say is that I've checked out both developments, and wasn't impressed with either.

I went up to see Mazarron a while ago (Huma offered me a deal when I told them I wanted my money back from Almanzora) and thought it looked under-maintained and the facilities were pretty sparse.

Spoke to a couple of people there and they were unhappy with the maintenance of the place and the fact that Huma was charging them for facilities that were apparently free (or so they had been led to understand)  Apparently the daughter of Antonio Subiela has been given the pool area to oversee?  Which is not going down too well. 

I guess it's a matter of expectation and personal preferences.

Val123

If you are coming out of ACC now then your timing is good

If you want to bring your money back to UK the exchange rate is now in your favour and if you want to buy now then it is a good time.

Whilst the prices for the best developments in the best locations are firm , it is a slow market [ just like UK now] and if you adopt the same approach to buying a re sale in Spain as you do in UK,then you will get a good buy......find what you are looking for [and there are some very nice properties ] then make an offer

Be reasonable as owners of nice re sales are in general not forced to sell....but remember that if your first offer is not accepted you can always increase it!!!    

You could even say Dec/Jan are the best months to buy!!...and you could be using it within 6/8 weeks

ACC when it gets the green light say between Jan and April 2008 will for most of us not be ready until circa late 2009

Hi Brian

I decided to pull out of ACC quite a while ago, and have been forced to engage a solicitor in order to get a refund as well as interest plus compensation. 

By law, Huma are completely in the wrong, and yet I am forced to spend money on legal representation.

In short, this ( and other experiences in the Spanish property market) has put me off. 

After Huma's behaviour to date, I fail to see why people think that Huma will suddenly behave professionally if and when this site is built?  Do people really believe that the facilities will be up to standard?

My personal belief is that ACC won't be built (if ever) for a long time - and the facilities will be greatly scaled down, making the properties harder to rent out, and for the elderly/retired who want to live there permanently, a lot less convenient especially if they don't drive.

The Spanish developers seem to be getting away with it, and the MEPS have raised this and other issues such as "land grab" with the Spanish government.

After cases such as the hotel (Agarribico I think it's called) in Carboneras, why am I surprised that the Spanish government have done nothing even when the EU intervenes?

So, I will either be investing my money in the UK property market (which is bound to remain stable even with the current lull)  or somewhere like Cyprus/Cape Verde/Carribean - all good investments, with better short and long term gains than buying in Spain.

I also own a house in Spain, which I am shortly putting on the market.  It's a lovely 250 square meter 4 bedroom house in a prime location, with pool.  I am not looking to be greedy and increase the price by much more than I purchased it for 5 years ago, and have taken the advice of the estate agents (I spoke to 5 agents and went with the median valuation)  re: a realistic price, instead of plucking a figure out of the air as many seem to do.

However, the local estate agents confirm my thoughts:  the market in Spain is almost dead at the moment and likely to remain that way for at least another year or so.

I think you have summarised the 'downside' not just about ACC but about buying in Spain in the past

I think it is fair to say that for each one who has had a problem there are very many more who have been very happy with their purchase....'the upside to buying in Spain'

I also hold the view that things are changing quickly and that today anyone buying for a life style reason with professional advice can do so with security 

And if they buy now they will look back in a few years time and find that they have made a good buy, had lots of enjoyment in Spain and the profit is just a bonus

If you want to buy to rent out then you have to be very careful with your selection and ' manage and market it properly  '

Buying to flip is not an option now.....on any decent development you will have to complete the purchase before selling on

Finally, if you think there have been some bad scare stories about Spain over the last few years , just wait until the so called ' emerging markets' start to explode!!!! .....massive problems out there!!!  

Very Good informative posts to read. Thank you..

From a lay mans point of view, I'm concernerd that Huma may not want to continue with ACC. (regardless of 'go or no go decision') The reason being, that due to the slow down and flooded market they may actually find it difficult to sell the remaining propertise anyway. These would have to be at inflated / increased prices so that they recoup costs of non build period. Who's going to pay higher prices now ?

Unfortunately it is all going against this developer at the moment.

It is a buyers market. So it makes any decision to 'pull out ' of ACC easier..........

6 months ago I disagreed that you could find a property elsewhere at ACC 2004 /5 prices. This is no longer the case. There are plenty out there with sellers that will snap your right arm off for a deal...............Sellers know this, and are rightfully trying to sell at todays prices because tomorrows prices will be lower !

I think that there is a much more down to earth acceptance of the reality of the property situation now on this board.  I agree with almost everything that has been written in the last few post, including that the emerging markets are heading for a fall!!

We also bought on another development in Spain, and as I have said many times on here, it may not be perfect, but we have had a lot of fun already out of it.  And it is absolutely try that at MCC they have to pay to use the pool, and in my opinion, those people offering rental property with a pay per use pool - are not attractive!!

I would also just want to add a word of caution about the UK housing market - and I speak as someone who has properties around the UK.  It may remain steady, or it may dip by up to 10% depending on where you are - I cannot think it will dip more than that.  But markets everywhere move in cycles, and usually 10 years is a good length of time to feel secure about.  SO if you cannot wait 10 years to see significant returns - stay away from the property market at the moment.

Bri  

Hi Bri

I'm in the south east of England, so am confident (or as confident as you can be) that the situation is reasonably stable, and any "blips" in the property market are short lived.

I certainly believe that the UK is a better bet than Spain, especially if you're looking for a short-medium length return on your investment!

I think I'll be dust by the time that Spain starts to see the kind of property boom that the UK has had!

Emerging markets are trickier.  I never went for Bulgaria, and some other Eastern European countries, but others swear by them. 

For me, the dodgy weather alone makes them a bad bet if you're looking to rent the property for more than 2-3 months a year, or unless they're also close to a good, accessible ski resort, in which case you have a lot more rental months.

So, for me the countries I mentioned in a previous post are the ones I'm looking at closely!

Good luck to all whatever You decide to do!!!

Hi Val - good luck with your sale and purchase whereever.  I think the problem, or one of the problems with all of us and ACC, is that we simply missed the property boom.  People were flipping and making money without even paying a single month's mortgage, and where this happens (as in Florida at the moment) the downturn is dramatic.  I am surprised there has not been more of a downturn in Spain, given the amount of property still to be completed and to spill onto the market, but I agree with you, it will be a long time before the market recovers.  More than a couple of years anyway, because unlike in England, there is no real shortage.  They do have a problem with affordable housing for the young, so the pressure is on to stop building for tourists and start addressing the shortage for young Spaniards.  

I certainly did not mean to put people off buying property - I would be a hypocite to do so.  I just think people have to be careful, and realistic whereever they buy.

Have a good weekend,

Bri 

Goodness, Brian, I have only just read what you said a couple of posts ago:

'ACC when it gets the green light say between Jan and April 2008 will for most of us not be ready until circa late 2009' 

Are you really saying that it could be as late as April before a decision is reached?  And is that based on info locally that you have said in the past is reliable (though I seem to remember the good news was to come out in September 07).

With all due respect, a lot of people have listened carefully to your many reports which have always been positive (far too positive in my view, as you know).  Your reassessment must be  utterly depressing  for those still hanging on. 

It may just be worth letting us know where the April  date is coming from?  It is becoming more that a bit of slippage.  And if April is realistic, then taking into account Val's excellent point about Humas possibly not going ahead because of viability problems (ie. unlikely to sell property there at the moment), it seems to me to be a time for serious reassessment.

Bri

My views have gradually changed over the last few months

The new PGOU was passed circa April 2007 and the word was that the Junta would expedite their decision

It eventually became clear that after the sectional reports had been completed the new  PGOU was delivered by the Local Council to the Junta in September 2007

The expectation was again that the Junta would expedite their decision and that there would be a green light before the end of 2007

On reflection this was probably too optimistic and in reality I suppose , just like in UK, government approval of planning matters do tend to slip

Also from a little more research ,a PGOU approved within 12 months of the plan being first approved by the Local Council is not bad  going 

In government ,anywhere, nothing much gets done between mid December and mid January so we are looking for the green light anytime before Easter

When I was in Spain in October everyone was very positive and on site talking about compensation packages {???} .....but waiting!!!!

I hope like everyone else that 8th January 2008 will be the date!!!

Do I think it will be built?.....yes and I am staying in at least for the time being but if I wanted to be in Spain now then I would get out

And there are some good well built re sales available

Getting out means accepting that I am walking away from a potential good profit even in this slow market and it is a great location

I'm in no hurry [ besides an agent, I am also an investor]

We have all waited a long time, many much longer than me and to be realistic even when the green light is given for many it will be a long time before your property is built

Huma say that they will have them all built in 12 months!!!....developers are by nature optimistic    

[ my estimate of build time does not include the part built ones ]

I hope I am wrong about both dates and that I will have a Tarifa delivered to me December 2008......... !!!!

If you have decided that you are not prepared to wait, then start the get out process now    

Gasman

Will be interested in your views on MCC

Regds

Mike

Thanks for that clarification Brian.  It is not likely to be the 8th of January, since the big Christmas celebration, the Three Kings is on the 6th which is a Saturday this year - I think you will find the 8th January is a National holiday.

I would be concerned still that Huma are not going to be able to raise the cash to fulfill their obligations, never mind give attractive compensation packages.  I am assuming that they are preparing to sell on OCC to try to raise some much needed cash. And don't forget the courts forced them to hold back a very substantial amount of money for them to build the promised golf course at MCC (not yet built I understand).

Also, those wanting to look around, you will find a lot of new and resales being offered fully furnished - so do remember that when thinking about compensation packages.

At least have a look at what is available.  I have said it before and no doubt will say it again, you will be very pleasantly surprised.

Bri 

The golf course at MCC has not been built and from what you say you have perhaps not seen MCC

Problems and all it is worth a visit as it will give you an idea as to the general appearance ACC will have

Not a bad location but not in my view as good as ACC

A lot has changed since MCC ,as now developers have to build at least circa 70% of the infrastructure before they start to build the properties and if a golf course is planned  then that is included

Because the government does not want developers making promises to buyers that they later do not supply

This makes it much safer to buy in Spain  now than in the past

One interesting point about ACC.....since Jan 2007 all new residential properties have to have solar hot water [ as well as a boiler] so as ACC will effectively be a ' new development' will we get solar!!!  

Most re sales are sold with furniture but anyone buying should just treat this as a free extra and when making an offer just base it on the vacant value, compared to others!

Agreeing a purchase in Dec/Jan is perhaps the best time of the year for a good buy!!!