Early Retirement- E106/Insurance/Pay into System/Pay as You Go

Thank you amga2 for your message. The problem that your clients in the U.K. have is whether to believe that there will eventually be a successful outcome.  Can you honestly say that there can or will be a positive solution to this situation, which is so confusing to us, as we are not familiar with the  Spanish way of dealing with these matters? Is it simply a matter of time before the licence is finally granted?

It is in everyone's interest to remain supportive, so please keep us regularly informed as to your dealings with the authorities at Campos del Rio, as often the press coverage is not reliable.

I have been following the "threads" in relation to the affairs of Trampolin Hills for some months now. My interest / concern is NOT in connection with the new development outside Murcia but the original one close to La Torre Golf. I purchased "off plan" like many other "fools" (NOW THERE IS AN ADMISSION) and have parted nearly €200K and NO Guarantee only to find my property is Mortgaged to CAM Bank (direct information from CAM) and is unlikely to evergain formal planning consent. For those of you who know the "site" my plot is the first villa on the left as you go up the hill immediately under the "Great Wall of Murcia"! Whilst I have to say that personally I feel Antonio is "full of s..." most of my communiations have been with Rafael ... nice guy but TOTALLY ineffectual! I have instructed Iberbrit in La Manga to commence an action for "Breach of Contract" against the developer (I understand they are acting for other Trampolin "clients"). My understanding of the posistion is that the situation within the company is extremely dire and that the staff have not been paid for some months. I can imagine that whilst Antonio and his "cohorts" drive around in "flash motors" this does not sit too well with the staff never mind his clients. On a personal basis I just want out of the whole thing resolved (who doesn't) ... Rafael said he would complete over 12 months ago and since then all I have had is a string of "broken promises"!

I don't think that any of the "three stooges" are totally "corrupt" in the true sense of the word but are all incredibly naive ... they have been unable to differentiate between what is "company money" and what is "personal money" ... indeed Antonio considers it to be one and the same! This, of course, is the real reason they are in trouble now. I agreed to purchase this b...... "white elephant" I guess 4 years ago and in desperation have now purchase an alternative property in Mallorca so simply want my money back. However, what concerns me is that I believe that Trampolin will go "bust" and that all those in my position will be dangerously exposed ... I believe in the principle of "safety in numbers" and so we have to form some sort of cohesive group to protect ourselves. I have noticed how many people "hide" behind "usernames" ... I am not doing that ... my name is Andrew Wilford and I can be contacted on my UK mobile 00-44-7760-333332 or my Spanish numebr 00-34-678081017. I will be in Mallorca from next Saturday and intend ... Air Berlin permitting ... to fly in for a couple of days during that week.

Can anybody "out there in cyberspace" throw any POSITIVE (and here positive may als be negative) light on the situation. I personally don't think this is just "political" but more likely to be financially. Raff tried to give me some bull about a payment for a road and €1 million but I already knew this to be untrue. What I believe has happened is the following using my property as an example:-

(1) they obtained a valuation of some €396K for mortgage purposes.
(2) they drew down some €300 K (I THINK ... don't know the precise amount) on mortgage.
(3) I agreed a purchase price of €285K and have so far paid +-€200K
(4) on the basis that THEY COULD GET licences I would have to pay Trampolin €85K and they would have to pay CAM Bank 300K ... in short to complete with me they will have to find a NET +- €200K ... multiply this by say 100 properties and then you see the problem!

I stressthe above figures are by way of example but for sure the principle is accurate.

HI 

Firstly im with all of you and yes it is very distressing, however we need to keep an open mind and until it all goes belly up , continue with some faith.  They have not as yet gone bankcrupt and are stil a solvent company.  WE have to think that it could not be possible for a very very small town hall tobe our demise. Somebody somewhere will have ti intervene.  This whole development is massive, we are not talking a small plot of land.  These guys ata the town hall really do not know whats hit them or what is about too, have you spent time in Campos del Rio, they are a one horse town with no horse, this guy must be pooping himself, if he did get all that money, hes obviously become a millionaire overnight hypertheticall y speaking of course. And theres no way he can repay that monies, yes it stinks but not as much as if and when this does not go ahead. Campos del Rio will be wiped of the map, the locals will mutiny before then i think.

Anyway i feel better for that little repertiore and murieboy get a rip this is not like you, evad have you anythoughts send me a message

HI "Reach High"

I have read what you have to say and I THINK wqe are talking about 2 diifernt things / developments. I believe you are talking about the NEW development (which maybe called Campos Del Rio ... I don't know) but I am talking about the original development. Aside from all that I think the situation is the same on both counts (a) they don't have formal / proper planning for EITHER development and (b) they have spent all the cash and now cannot pay to complete what they have started. Back handers and black money are it seems common place in Spain so maybe to "bribe" an official is considered "normal". My property is completed and I could move in tomorrow but ONLY if I pay the balance of the monies due but I would never become the "owner" because there is no planning authority for the villa. No complaints over the construction ... in fact it is very good but to give Antonio a further "chunk" of money to buy another "flash motor" and still not own the house would be insane in the extreme. In fact I think ALL Trampolin clients (myself included) should be detained uder section 16 of the 1956 Mental Health Act! No one in their right mind would part with the sort of sums of money that we have without this being in exchange for Title Deeds AND THAT IS IN THE UK! To do this in Spain was an act of lunacy ... from my side I got a friend involved (sorry Sean!) and he paid for his house IN FULL and has no Escitura!

I don't say we have been conned and I dont think we have been "hood winked" but I do feel we have been foolish in dealing with 3 individuals who treat clients money as their own! Again ... Trampolin Hills and NOT Campos Del Rio ... they constructed a wall ... then raised it by a further 5 metres ... they were to build 3 houses according to plans yet built three blocks of UGLY apartments ALL WITHOUT PLANNING! The authorities are likely to ask them to knock the whole lot down ... my villa included! Antonio now things of himself as some sort of "Big Time Hit Man"  and that everyone will do exactly what he wants ... he can buy SOME of the people SOME of the time but NOT ALL of the people ALL of the time.

Sadly I think you are wrong ... or that is the EXPERT advice I have and that they are going to go "BANG" any day now. THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO PROTECT OURSELVES AGAINST! I have no problem in exposing my number to all of you but if anyone wants to speak to me give me a call ... i will call you back if that is what is required!

Latest news Antonio defeinding his business dealings: (published laverdad.es today)

Antonio Martínez: "If it were a corrupt, would not have paid 5 million euros to Treasury '
The chairman of Trampolín Hills defends the legality of their project and accuses the mayor of River Fields' not being honest with his party "to conceal their dealings with the company
J. Gizzard
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Antonio Martínez, president of Trampolín Hills (2,800 homes and a golf course in Campos del Rio) is between a rock and a hard or "with the ass in the air ', as he describes the situation colloquially. The project is stalled because the council does not give final approval, since the local government (PSO) does not have a majority because of the abstention of the mayor and a councillor motivated by their former business relationship with the company and, Furthermore, doubts have been raised about the validity of the guarantees that would ensure the money advanced by hundreds of customers who have already bought a house.

The property conflict with judicial referrals, has generated also a political dispute between the PSO and the PP, calling for the resignation of the mayor.

After several weeks of cross accusations and complaints, Antonio Martínez has lost patience yesterday and decided to speak out to defend his honesty, the legality of his project, and the same, criticizing the mayor, Miguel Navarro, who feels responsible for "Halt the project and jeopardize the dream of 2,000 families and jobs for 400 people."

"These days I have said everything, that if I am a swindler, a corrupt ... But how can accuse me of swindler if I have the opportunity to make the houses. Let me give three months ahead and I am 200 licences and in that time I will make 200 houses, "says indignant businessman.

"I have not ido"

"I am here, I have not ido, I paid taxes. If it were a corrupt, I would have long with bitches and would not have paid 5 million euros to VAT tax, as I have done ', insists on defending his honesty. Accepts that Justice is investigating the project, but is more assured by the municipal action with respect thereto, by the project itself. "The DB filed a complaint in its day-shows-and I have already declared to the prosecutor, which is what I have everything because I have nothing to hide". According to the prosecutor became interested in linking the mayor with the company. "The PSO is Cabra me because I said what the 200,000 euros (money that the mayor claimed by the sale of houses Trampolín Hills), but it's the truth," he says.

Antonio Martínez said that trade relations with Miguel Navarro Trampolín Hills, and that are now left him unable to vote in favour of the project, were closer to what has been reported (even now, being mayor, a relative very close to he has bought a house, "adds), and wondered if the PSO did not know these facts before proposing it as a candidate for mayor.

Martinez accuses the mayor of "not being honest with his party" by failing to tell their business with Trampolín Hills and the consequences. These relations are not confined only to the sale of houses, which Navarro received 200,000 euros, but also intervened "as a broker in the purchase of 20 or 30 plots of land for Trampolín. The businessman says that even "I had to pay double the fee for homes that sold for not denouncing it, did not pay their share of the commission to real estate through which made the operation".

The president of the promoter thinks that the mayor acted with some resentment. "I do not think I have forgiven you stop outside the purchase of the latest farm, where he wanted to be the runner, but I was not wanted because the candidate for mayor," says the entrepreneur.

Martinez denies the allegations of PSRM-PSO spokesman, Jose Ramon Jara, who is pressing the mayor to resign. "I do not press anyone-indications, what I am saying is that they are the ones who govern the city council and they have to give a solution, because the PP is in the opposition and merely doing his job." In his view, the mayor could vote, because "the municipal secretary has made four reports saying that you can do, but he prefers not to vote, since it could incur an illegality that could cost him the disqualification.

With a lot of bitterness and anger, the employer asks' why not give me permission if everything is okay. This must fix it, "says, and suggests a possible solution:" To vote or resign and run list.

Am I alone in thinking that the this forum is not the right place for the spat between Trampolin and Bayside? I feel that these private battles should be conducted between those involved.  At the moment the majority of Trampolin's clients are looking for facts on the situation at Trampolin Hills - not any other development.

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN..

THIS TRAMPOLIN HILLS FORUM IS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO BUY OR ARE INTERESTED IN TRAMPOLIN HILLS GOLF RESORT AT CAMPOS DEL RIO.

WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE RANTINGS OF EVERY TOM, DICKHEAD, AND HARRY WHO FEEL IT IS THE OWN PERSONNAL SOAP BOX. IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING INTERESTING TO SAY OR WISH TO CONTRIBUTE IN A POSITIVE MANNER YOU ARE WELCOME. IF NOT PLEASE PLEASE START YOUR OWN FORUM.

REGARDS
BRIAN    

Hi All,
Whilst not wanting to bury my head in the sand and pretend everything is hunky dorey, I am getting rather fed up of all the prophets of doom and gloom intimating that we've al lost our money and that they're going t--s up any day now.Every day I read the comments on this forum hoping that one day I will read that the licences have been issued but until then I prefer the witty and amusing banter that most of you guys enjoy here. If I've lost my deposit (which on phase 2 is not a bankrupting amount) then I've lost it, i'll get over it and recover from it, however if this resort does eventually get started (everything crossed) then we'll all look forward to many years of sunshine and cool evenings with plenty of chilled Vino.
Incidently,I received an e-mail from my agent today who visited the site a few days ago and says there is a fair bit of activity on the site and the mood their is upbeat.

So I say...... lets keep positive and one day soon maybe we'll all get the out we are all hoping for.

Re - last post............ it was of course suposed to say outcome not just out but I got distracted by my six year old. .......... just wanted to clear that up

I agree ipl1964.  Whatever we may wish we could contribute to the current situation, if what we want from Trampolin Hills is a home in the sun on a lovely golf course, preferably sooner rather than later, then there is nothing we can do about it at the moment. We have to leave it in the hands of  the people who are negotiating, and who understand local politics far better than most of us. If things do go sour, then we will have to deal with that at that time.  In the meantime, let us keep a positive thread going.

I know where you're coming from Brian, but I do see the relevance of the earlier post from Bayside. Yes, of course you could say it was doom and gloom (which it was), but the personal way he explained his situation needs to be taken on board by all of us. All of us, by now, have overcome our earlier naivety, with regard to the Spanish way of doing business. So when genuine people from not an altogether different development (same promoter), come on and pour their hearts out, it should be respected for what it is. I personally don't like all the negative vibes surrounding TH, but we can't run away from it either. No smoke without fire. But I do agree that we all need to stay together on this one. For the good, or for the bad.

A footnote to Bayside. I'm sorry to hear about your ongoing problems with GT and wish you every success in your efforts to readdress the situation. I believe that the structure of this or indeed any forum is set up in such a way as to protect it's users from cyberspace and all the bad things that can happen on a personal basis. With this in mind, I suggest that although it was very admirable of you to relinquish your message board anonymity by posting personal details about yourself, you really should edit it out ASAP. 

Joe

 

Thank you "Joe 1" for your comments ... I was not unduly concerned abot the comments made by "rough diamond" ... his behaviour is perhaps epitomised in his handle ... say no more. I feel any and all comments made on this site concerning the behaviour of Trampolin Hills ... REGARDLESS of the development ... are highly relevant to us all. The degree of missinformation peddled by the company is far from helpful and the manner in which they respond somewhat shabby. The first time I used the site with my "Bayside" handle was yesterday and whilst the point you make about anonimity is WELL TAKEN I had simply felt that it was time to stand up and be counted ... too many individuals have appeared not have the courage of their convictions in the past; that said YOU ARE RIGHT! My exposure of the truth concerning GT has done is to expose a somewhat "dirty tactic" ... WHICH DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR THE CREDIBILITY OF EITHER GT OR ANTONIO. Just look at his post entitled "Hello Andy" and my replies.

To take the point (if indeed there was one) made by "Rough Diamond" I think the various "threads" started on what is essentially ONE problem are becoming confusing. MY comments were about GT ... his about just one development handled by GT. The reason for the company's difficulties is the same REGARDLESS of the development ... they have simply chosen to ignore their own Spanish planning regulations and taken money from clients which they have suddenly assumed to be their own personal money to do with as they wish. What needs to happen now ... REGARDLESS OF THE DEVELOPMENT ... is that we need to act together and cohesively to either (a) ensure the return of our money for breach of contract (as in my case) or (b) ensure that we get value for money and the properties we have paid for (again for the benefit of Rough Diamond) ... REGARDLESS of the development ... constructed. I personally feel that in terms of both quality and value for money ... IF WE HAD GOT WHAT WE WERE PROMISED ... GT produce a good product. Corruption amongst local officials in Spain is commonplace, construction without licences in Spain is commonplace  ... where else but in Spain would we willingly part with comparitively huge sums of money without having so much as a scrap of paper to confirm ownership. Not ONE of us would have been crazy enough to do this in the UK (assuming most of us are British but I guess the same principle applies in Germany) yet we have all gone like "lambs to the slaughter" allowing the developer to run of with our money and squander it on personal luxuries ... THAT IS THE ISSUE WE NEED TO ADDRESS. "Rough Diamond" is spitting his dummy out over what he sees as HIS PERSONAL ISSUE whereas we are all in the same boat and have to sink or swim together.

Anyway, thank you Joe for having the intelligence and perception to see where I was coming from  ... doom and gloom it maybe but I still feel the situation can be saved for us all and indeed with a degree of common sense prevailing GT may well be able to continue.

Bayside/Amga

Whilst I agree with some of the things you say, you must also keep in mind that a forum is a place to "discuss" topics in an adult and responsible fashion. Spats against other members whether it be one of the members or developments or another development or indeed against the promotors is totally uncalled for and is of no use to the forum members. Indeed this just puts you guys in a bad light if anything!

Amga
Please could you keep us informed of any developments, however small, as we are in the UK and we are at a disadvantage as to the current state of affairs at TH.

Just because its school half-term doesn't mean this forum has to become a public school playground! Cheers guys

Best Wishes

Jackie

A COPY OF THE LATEST E-MAIL I SENT TO PILAR WHOM I NOW AM GETTING NO REPLY FROM


AS IM NOW GETTING NO REPLY MY PATIENCE IS SHATTERED AND I FEEL ITS NOW TIME TO GO SEE A SOLICITOR FOR TO RETREIVE MY FUNDS AS YOU LOT HAVE BROKEN YOUR WORD AND YOUR CONTRACT THIS HAS PUT ME OFF SPAIN AND THE SPANISH PEOPLE FOR LIFE I JUST CANT BELEIVE THAT YOU PEOPLE WOULD BE HAPPY AND WILLING TO JUST SIT THERE AND WATCH SOMEONE ELSE FAMILY BE DESTROYED BECAUSE OF YOUR NIGHTMARE OF A PROJECT AND THE CONTINUATION OF LIES I AM REALLY REALLY ANGRY I JUST HOPE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT BECAUSE MINE CANNOT. I THOUGHT PILAR WE WERE GETTING ON WELL BUT I JUST CANT TAKE NO MORE.

Hi "Jackie in Hove" ... suggest you address your comments re "Spats" etc to Antonio. Just look at the other threads and how he tries to hide his actions . I ... JUST LIKE CP BOYD ... simply want the return of my monies which they have held for some 3 years. I am sorry but I feel I have expressed my concerns genuinely and openly and how they affect us all.

Hi,

 Have been in contact with TH to find out when the next council meeting will be. The following is what I received.

SORRY IF MY VIEWS SEEMED EXTREMELY STRONG YESTERDAY I AM NORMALLY MORE RESERVED AS REGULARS ON HERE WILL KNOW BUT I REALLY AM AT MY WITS END WITH THIS IM SURE LIKE MOST OF US. MY MAIN PROBLEM IS LACK OF COMMUNICATION AND RELEVANT INFORMATION BELOW IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

1. WERE EXACTLY WE STAND AT THE MOMENT.
 
2. WHAT HAPPENS IF THE PROJECT IS VOTED AGAINST.

3.SOMEONE FROM TRAMPOLINHILLS TO GIVE US A WEEKLY UPDATE IF NOT DAILY AND ONLY THE WHOLE TRUTH (HOW HARD IS IT).

4. WERE DO WE AS CUSTOMERS STAND LEGALLY IF ALL GOES WRONG (WITH BANK GAURANTEES OR WITHOUT)

5. AND OVERALL A STEP BY STEP GUIDE TO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, WHEN DOES IT HAPPEN, WHY DOES IT HAPPEN, WHO DOES IT HAPPEN WITH AND WERE DOES IT HAPPEN AND OVERALL HOW DOES THIS IMPACT ON ALL OF US.

IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANY FURTHER POINTS TO ADD PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DO SO. I FEEL IF WE GOT ALL THE POINTS WE WOULD LIKE ANSWERED AND THEN ALL E-MAILED AND PRIVATE MESSAGED THEM ON THIS FORUM TO AMG2 AND HOPEFULLY GET THE ANSWERS WE NEED SURELY IT CANT DO ANY HARM.

Hi guys

All our posts are now disappearing (from the bottom up) so I think we should start a new thread with the same title. There seems to be a limit to each thread strangely.

Cheers
Jackie

Hi

The older posts are still there. They can be accessed through the "NEXT" button towards the bottom of each page. It is quite faint, in grey, on my pages.

By the way, I agree with AP007. We must wait for the documents to be brought together, and for the vote to take place. However frustrated we may feel, this is a fact. It would be nice, however, to have an idea WHEN this is likely to take place.

Cost Blanca News Today (30/5):

Court battles over Trampolín Hills Resort

Guarantees are not valid in Spai

By Nuria Pérez
A MOUNTAIN of legal battles will be faced by Grupo Trampolín (GT) due to its resort in Campos del Río.

Some clients who bought a property on the resort are likely to take legal action against the company – which is itself considering a lawsuit against the town hall.

The first criminal lawsuits were presented this week in Mula’s Investigating Court by the lawyers’ office Valdés Albístur Abogados.

According to Francisco Valdés, the company has been accused of fraud by the clients.

“The money cannot be recovered through the guarantees,” he explained.

“Moreover the company has failed to comply with the terms of the sales contract.

“GT has been playing with the clients’ savings and they have not kept their promises,” he alleged.

He advised all clients to make a decision as soon as possible, as the warrants issued by Swiss Financial Corporation cannot be executed in Spain.

He said the guarantors were GT themselves.

CBNews contacted the Bank of Spain, who confirmed that the company Swiss Financial Corporation is not registered with them as a credit or bank institution. The Spanish General Department for Insurances (Dirección General de Seguros) also confirmed that SFC is not registered with them.

However GT chief executive Juan Francisco Canales said the guarantees had been approved by the Spanish Ministry for Justice.

“Some clients asked to recover their money and they got it back.” he insisted.

“In theory they should not have any problem.”

Sr Canales said they were not hiding and are fighting to have the building scheme approved.

He admitted the work on the first phase of the resort – 500 properties – should have been started in September last year.

“We are considering taking legal action against all councillors working in the town hall,” he asserted.

“We have lost 50 million euros approximately.

“A decision by Murcia’s court for administrative affairs states the councillors might take responsibility with their own wealth.”

Sr Canales said GT had started selling the properties, despite the scheme not having been approved by the regional authorities, because they had a building agreement with the town hall and the project had been initially approved.

nperez@cbnews.es