Cameron promises in/out referendum on EU

 Didn't see that one coming! Where does that leave the massive ex-pat community? In my opinion, Britian owes it to its 2.5 million citizens living in other EU countries not to exit. Britain owes it to its exporting (and importing) businesses - overwhelmingly dependent for British competitiveness on the single market - not to exit. The free movement of people and economic prosperity matter more than whimsical far right/anti-trade politics.

Just remind me once again Who took us into the EU  ah yes one Ted Heath and who voted for this  ah yes we did. We need to be in not out we get more from the EU than we realise and we are better off in. This will roll on and on we dont have an empire any more so lets just get on with it and get as much out of the EU we can.

Long live the difference. Long live the revolution.

 How about the jingoistic view that Englands laws are decided by the English ( sorry Mr Scotland  Alec Salmond already decided for you ).

The in /out referendum is risky but it puts an end to all the messing about  then England can be in or out no more messing about 

As I remember,    I did not vote to enter an EU,  which could/would control UK,  but a common market,  where countries could freely trade.

Interesting comment I just came upon at :-

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

Britain's entry into the Common Market (later to be transformed into the EU) was also illegal for another reason. The Prime Minister who signed the entry documents, Edward Heath, later confirmed that he had lied to the British people about the implications of the Treaty.

Heath told the electorate that signing the Treaty of Rome would lead to no essential loss of National Sovereignty but later admitted that this was a lie. Astonishingly, Heath said he lied because he knew that the British would not approve of him signing the Treaty if they knew the truth. Heath told voters that the EEC was merely a free trade association. But he was lying through his teeth. He knew that the original members of the EEC had a long-standing commitment to political union and the step by step creation of a European superstate.

European politicians need a wake up call to address the many uncomfortable realities that are decimating people's lives.

European citizens should all be fighting for consumer rights and protection from a justice system that ensures fair and consistent enforcement of the law, in order to counter corrupt practice and lack of accountability from banking, corporate and political arenas alike.

We all deserve better from the existing European system and we should all be pushing for far greater accountability and major change to the status quo.

Sadly the present system is not working and in the process it's effect on all our lives cannot be under-estimated. Change is needed but its up to European citizens to demand that change from their political leaders, across all political persuasions.

 Well interestingly, the polls are already showing a comfortable win for the 'in' argument - and rising steadily as the reality takes hold.

Personally, I have always believed that the growth in UK is more linked to the stance on immigration, rather than the EU.  I don't think a stand alone UK (minus Scotland) is attractive.  

As I understand things, once one has held a residence for 5 or more years then the right to residence becomes permanent.

As a longstanding resident here in Spain, and with my family having multi-national ancestry (Ireland, Wales and England), maybe we will be safe anyway!

I do not really believe that the British people could be so stupid as to leave the EU, once the debate has disclosed the advantages which have been assiduously hidden by the rightwing press and Little Englanders all these years!

 Meant to say growth in UKip - sorry!!

Ads, 

                           whilst in general  I tend to agree with what you say, the problem as I see it is that in effect you are saying that the EU, as a whole,(United States of Europe) should have laws which protect us.

 I would argue  for an EU with considerably less universal powers.  Although I do not live in UK, I do not believe that the EU should be able to dictate what the UK chooses to do in relation to it’s internal systems, problems, laws, immigration etc.

Cameron has said he will allow a referendum in 2018! A week in politics is a long time, never mind 5 years. Anyway, the rate Cameron and his bunch of Hooray Henry mates are cocking everything up, he will hopefully have self-destructed by then. Come to think of it, the EU may also have disappeared by then as well.

 what is often at fault is simply the way the UK applies the laws - which leads people to beleive it is a European court being unfair and treating countries differently, when it is often just how the law is applied. 

Roly  

what is often at fault is simply the way the UK applies the laws - which leads people to beleive it is a European court being unfair and treating countries differently, when it is often just how the law is applied.

 Fair enough have a debate or even a vote about Britain's relationship with the EU but not something as extreme as a referendum on membership. But as someone has already said, the argument for staying in has never been properly articulated due to the noisy sceptic rantings of the Tory right and Tory press. I would welcome a calm and measured presentation of the real benefits of European membership. It would surely win the day then.

 What Cameron said is a far cry from what might happen, he said the vote on the EU which will be an "In or Out vote" will take place after the next General Election...IF...he wins again.

So hows that for blackmail then.

Come on Parsnip......... when did you ever see that bunch of loonies in Westminster behave in a calm and measured manner? They are incapable of any sane behaviour let alone present a measured and truthful set of facts concering this issue or any other come to that.

I fully agree with your point though.

Woodbug

 I am not suggesting that MPs present the pro-EU case Woodbug but people like business leaders and academics maybe.

 An extremist from the left would have a very different belief from one from the far right.

Isn't that the same with every debate, regardless of the issue? Like I said, the Pro-EU lobby needs to present a case that is grounded in fact and use credible representatives from business and academia to articulate this.

the Pro-EU lobby needs to present a case that is grounded in fact and use credible representatives from business and academia to articulate this.

 The problem with a referendum is that the general British public is very misinformed.  Those who vote will believe that, amongst other things;

The EU is making Britain give prisoners the vote.  It's not, it's the ECHR.  Britain signed up to that in 1950 and ratified it in 1951, a long time before they took up EU membership.

The EU makes Britain treat everyone on the NHS for free. It's not, it's the British system that makes it resident based, not contribution based.  That's why people from outside Europe also get it.  The EU simply states a EU citizen should get the same level of treatment offered to its own citizens, which is what happens.  In Spain, even Spaniards who haven't paid into the system don't get full cover.  That is changing, though.

The EU won't allow UK to sell bendy bananas and cucumbers. Again, a load of rubbish.  Food standards were part of British law long before they joined the EU.

That if Britain leaves the EU then the immigration problem would be solved overnight and everyone could be kicked out.  Sorry, wrong again.  The majority of immigrants in UK don't even come from the EU.

That the EU is making Britain sell things in metric measures so the pint will disappear.  Wrong again, Harold Wilson in 1965 introduced the Metrication bill, again a long time before Britain joined the EU.  In fact, it was the EU who said they had no objection in items being shown in pounds and ounces alongside kilos and grams.  The pint is safe.

Unfortunately some parts of the British press relish in giving out scare stories and prefacing them with "a European ruling" which alludes to the EU when it isn't.  Cameron is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.  Many people in Britain are clamouring for a referendum but they are being given wrong facts.  Now he does give in and say there will be a referendum, he gets slated for that as well.

The support for UKIP is going to have consequences pretty bad for Britain.  They will never get in to form a government but will take votes from the Conservatives thus ensuring a Labour victory at the next election.  Then watch the UK go down the plughole.

I also don't think the government will take much notice of a couple of million expats in Europe who, in general, don't even bother voting, try and find ways of not paying tax in UK but are quite happy to take benefits like the WFP despite not living in UK for many years. But it's their right so they will ensure they claim it with no hint of embarrassment whatsover.  I think the government, any government, would quite like to wash their hands of this section of the community.

What is needed is a little more positive spin on what Britain gets out of the EU rather than the headlines like those above or the "it costs us 50 million quid a day" and so on.  So what, exactly, are the benefits of the EU to the UK?  It would be nice for someone to actually spell it out for a change.