Johnzx,

I am completely confused by your post regarding paying your tax in UK.  If you are permanently resident in Spain, then that is where you should be paying  income tax on your worldwide income.  This is not a matter of choice.

Bob But, if one has already paid £60, 000 in UK taxes, will €4 a week really help?

But I would like to choose who I give it to as I did last year, the only year I got WFA,

All this argument about a few quid.  I think the winter fuel allowance should be abolished completely and the Government should then make a similar payment available to those entitled to pension credit.  The savings made should be used to increase the basic state pension by a penny or two. This would mean only those in need would get the allowance and we would hear no more of those wealthy pensioners getting the allowance and spending it on everything but fuel.  Those on pension credit are already in the benefits system and little money would need to be spent to pay them a fuel allowance.

I am not in the wealthy pensioner or pension credit category, I'm not even a pensioner until 2019 BUT I am fed up of people using the WFA, travel permit, free prescriptions, etc. as a reason why pensioners do not need a higher pension.  I would probably suggest getting rid of the travel pass, but I know that well off pensioners do not use buses regularly and nobody is charged if the pass is not used.

Well said Patdean.

There is far too much greed.

More than half the people getting WFA don't need it, and most don't spend it on fuel.

Quote "Oh my WFA allowance is next week, more money to buy presents for my Grandchildren".

For those saying they have paid in for it, No you haven't. It wasn't introduced until 1997, 1998.

Sorry Jarvi.

Yes we have paid in for it, where do you think it comes from?, from Taxpayers of course? not from Bankers bonuses, and what's wrong with additional presents for whoever, do the druggies who get benefits and not paid in only have to spend it food and their illegitimate children, of course not, they spend it on drugs fags and booze -  wake up and smell the coffee, I live on pension and  whoever says I'm not entitled is COMPLETELY WRONG, It should be a personal choice, those who really can afford not should be allowed to opt out, in the UK or wherever else in the world they now live or spend their winters in warmer climates.

Greed is wrong, necessity is NOT !

I see people are generalising as usual "most don't need it" !

Actually millions DO need it.    The UK state pension is the lowest in Europe and there is an e-petition on Downing Street for people to sign to try to get it amended.    Basic pension is £110.15 per week and alright if you have no private pension you may be entitled to pension credit but this only tops up to £145.40 and £222 if you are a married couple.    For people on here saying that £40,000 is essential to live on when a couple retires get real, these sums look a little sick don't you think, yet I don't know many on more than £300 per week even with the addition of their small private pensions.     We live on approx. £1300 per calendar month and that includes all our small private pensions which are not much and there are millions as I said previously where the woman didn't work 30 or 40 yrs ago choosing instead to raise a family so had no private pension anyway or chose to work under the married women's NI reduced stamp whilst continuing to work.    We are in arrears with our gas and electric at the moment and that is whilst we DO receive the WFA, god knows what we would owe if we didn't.   We use our car which I bought just before retiring, just one day per week to shop and we eat meat on Sundays only.

We both worked but I carried on working whilst raising our 2 children and chose not to pay full stamp as my husband had a very low paid job and we needed the money.

Every one's circumstances are different, but the number who are using WFA to buy grandchildren's birthday and Xmas presents I would sauggest are definitely in the minority !!

J White, do you have an email for the petition, and totally agree with you!

johnzx

If you don't need it don't draw it, simples!!

You are very fortunate, even if you worked hard all you life or was left money it is a personal decision, give it charity, also where do the figure more than half who receive WFA don't need it, again a free choice send it back which possibly won't work so give it to a worthy cause, or me!! I worked hard until 65 without claiming a penny other than HNS service which I had to relinquish when I came here!

If you don't need it don't draw it, simple !!

I want it abolished as it and other 'benefits' are being used as a way of paying almost the lowest pensions in the developed world.  The WFA  was introduced by Labour as a sop to those who were calling for a decent sized state pension.  Now the Government can say 'look at all the additional benefits our pensioners receive' and Government supporters then talk about our rich pensions getting WFA, travel passes, free prescriptions etc.

If you get the allowance and feel uncomfortable about keeping it.  Pay it to a charity instead.  If you return it to DWP, it will probably end up in their Christmas party fund.

J White, I would sign the petition as well.  I know many people where who DO need the WFA.  someone on here got shouted down because he said he was receiving £143 state pension.  Thank you JWhite for mentioning £145 as many on here would not believe him.  Yes we are the lowest in Europe just now and without the stats in front of me we are among the highest in utility bills here in the UK.  My partner is into alternative energy ie geo thermal and we have photovoltaic (sp) on the roof so we manage our bills ok.  But without the underfloor heating I would definitely move to warmer climes.  We spend most of the winter months in India, which still works out cheaper than staying here.  I do remember feeling bad about collecting child allowance back in the 80's and in fact asked to return it, but was politely informed by a DHSS officer "you have to accept it, even the Queen receives it".  I kept this money in a bank account in my sons name and he got a lovely surprise when he reached 18.  And, I almost forgot of course donated to my favourite charities.   I am constantly amazed  by the whacky society we now  find ourselves living  in.   I used to write to HM occasionally regarding matters such as this and in my downstairs loo have a few letters from the Palace in response, which is always a conversation piece at dinner parties.   The most recent was before this government was voted in.   I sent a letter to HM the Queen requesting her intervention to dissolve Parliament and got a very involved reply regarding constitutional intervention and objection. 

Brickwork and those who are interested in signing, here is the link :

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/51449

We have a long way to go, but perhaps if you mention this to your friends, we can get it discussed again in Parliament.   Considering some Spaniards get about 3 or 4 times as much, it certainly is a bone of contention with me !

Please pass on to as many people as you can and spread the word.   MP's look after their own pensions, we have to look after ours.

Hear hear JWhite I am onto it and agree with you, we all have to do our bit don't we?  I have always been an activist and proud of it.  Thank you for the link.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/51449

The above petition refers to an EU Summit that discussed the state pension levels in the EU and the aim to reach a level of 40% of their median wages as their basic state pension by 2007 and thereafter work towards 60%.

Our median wage is something like £26,500, so 40% would mean a pension of £10,600, almost double our maximum basic state pension, I'm sure we would all be happy with that, we're not greedy.

You will notice the position of Greece and Spain on the list, obviously getting almost the same state pension as workers get in wages is not sustainable, but reaching 40% would be a conservative aim.  We would then be in a similar position to France and Germany.

PS.  I think the median wage is also very low, so who is getting all the money?

This message was last edited by Patdean on 29/06/2013.

Pat thanks for that information and I agree double the state pension sounds reasonable to me.  I am laughing here at your PS, I wonder!!!!!!!!!  Could it be residents of Westminster?

Anyone know if this very same government who is stopping the measly £3.85 a week fuel payment know if they are also stopping the weekly "Unchecked" amounts of child benefits sent over to Poland...to name just one country...of £20.30 1st child,  and £13.40 subsequent children.

Kinda puts the stopping of the fuel payment to our "Own" people into perspective dont you think?

Some interesting points of view on here...

My view is that people not living in UK should not get the WFA. Yes, I realise that it gets cold in Spain during the wintery months, buts there is no denying the number of months that people in UK suffer the colder weather (minus 14 degrees last winter .... brrrrrrrr) far exceeds that experienced by expats in warmer climes. In my area of Spain, whilst the winter months can be cold during the evening and night time, the temperatures certainly would not have dropped to the levels experienced in UK.

Yes, it is true that Spanish properties are designed to keep out the heat but surely people realise that when they purchase / rent in the first place? People do chose to move abroad to retire .......

Having said the above, I am also of the view that the basic state pension is a disgrace for our older generation in UK and any rise has been paltry, to say the least. However, given the severe austerity measures that the Government are applying, we are unlikely to see any major increases on the horizon. The breadth of the welfare state is diminishing and benefits such as the WFA should be means tested.

 Edited to add:

Totally agree with Baz about Child Benefit ......

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/department-for-work-and-pensions-we-urge-the-uk-government-to-bring-uk-state-pensions-in-line-with-europe#share

The same pensioner activist has started a campaign on Change.org and I have posted the link above for anyone who is interested.  Most petitions I sign are from this website but the Government one is more powerful - if you get enough signatures.  No harm in signing both.

When I signed this petition, I suggested in the comments that Cameron pays more per week for his drycleaning than the £110 per week in basic state pension.  Perhaps some of you could come up with other examples.