| The Comments |
A Labour minister told families struggling with the soaring cost of living to stop being 'so bloody miserable'.
In an astonishing message at a time of rising prices and falling incomes, Transport Minister Tom Harris said that despite the escalating credit crunch, 'our citizens have never been so wealthy'.
And he claimed we were spending money on food and clothes in sums that would have 'made our parents gasp'.
His extraordinary outburst came on another day of desperate economic news:
- Britain's biggest mortgage lender said it feared house prices could plunge by up to 9 per cent by the end of the year
- Experts warned rising prices could push a quarter of households into fuel poverty
- Official figures showed a huge unexpected rise in public borrowing.
Opposition MPs said Mr Harris's blithe insistence that the nation should cheer up was 'breathtaking' when Labour had fuelled the squeeze on family finances.
They pointed to the scrapping of the 10p tax rate, soaring council tax, looming increases in road tax and recent figures showing pensioner and child poverty on the rise.
They are likely to contrast Mr Harris's 'cheer up' message with the downcast attitude of most of his Labour colleagues as the party slumps in the polls.
Tory Treasury spokesman Philip Hammond said: 'Tom Harris's breathtaking comments raise Labour's arrogance and complacency to a whole new level.
'Like his boss, Gordon Brown, he clearly lives on a different planet from ordinary hard-working families - who are struggling with soaring living costs, stagnant earnings and falling house prices.
'The short answer to Mr Harris's question asking why everyone is so miserable is, "Because we've got Gordon Brown as our Prime Minister".'
DID YOU KNOW?
- Tom Harris earns £92,100 as a junior minister and claimed £153,862 in expenses last year. That's one reason to be cheerful!
_______________________
0
Like
|
Roberto
Remember Gold is money, so it does not go up in price, what you are witnessing is the devaluation of euros or pounds against gold, Ie it takes more and more pounds to buy an ounce of gold.
I am amazed at the hidden costs of buying and selling property. With buying fees ie agent and iva and property tax and sellinmg fees and legal costs and then cgt if you are fortunate enoough to make anything, my guess would be that you would need to make 30% odd jsut to break even. Of course tahts if you can find a buyer at anything like your ask.
I calculated for me to buy a property here its going to cost me the same pounds as euros, so if the property is 200k euros its really 200k pounds. Makes it look might expensive in most areas.
BTW Sandra = thanks for the kind comments, whilst my museing may be controversial, my motives are sincere.
_______________________
0
Like
|
Roberto
Depending when you bought it in 1989 gold was somewhere between 300 and 400$ an ounce. Today its hovering around 900. Silver (my preferred metal) was around 4.5$ and is now around 17.
So if you had bought gold soverigns as I would have advised you could be looking at a nice protection from paper money and of course no stamp duty, cgt or vat. Selling costs would be perhaps 1% and its a totally liquid market, you coudl sell today 10million $ worth and get an instant quote without affecting the market.
Altho gold pays no interest, it has no maintenance costs either.
The problem with property in comparison is that in a highly suspect market like Spain you have to time your exit very carefully. Also if no one at the time wants it, your property maybe worth 500k on paper, but 350K to get a buyer.
As far as I can see now there is no liquidity in the property market in Spain. If you must have a buyer yopu might have to cut your price in half.
A huge liquid market exists in Gold and you can sell your gold online anytime of the day or night and get an instant quote at spot.
I am also able to derive a significant income form my holding, but thats another story.
_______________________
0
Like
|
Echo that last thought. Although I may sound flippant sometimes, I really find TJ's posts interesting and they are very much appreciated.
So, thanks for that Sandra, based on that last chart (looking at the 22 ct) it looks like I could cash in my bling for about 63% more £££s than I paid for it 9 years ago. Question is, then, how does that compare to property, or other investments that I could have made? I realise the timing was critical, but just as an example, I bought a property in 2001 and sold it two years later for 71% more than I paid for it. Plus I lived in it and derived an income from it. Can't do either of those with a tacky bracelet.
I really want to understand this, but am still struggling a bit. Please help.
(BTW, I realise I would have paid over the spot rate for my gold, and would get well below spot for it as scrap, so I know the above figures aren't the best to work with)
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
0
Like
|
Hi TJ222,
You're right of course. Here's a better price for very little extra 'Googling' and there are probably even better ones.
http://www.howcashforgold.co.uk/
| |
9 Carat |
£4.25 |
| |
14 Carat |
£7.19 |
| |
18 Carat |
£9.50 |
| |
22 Carat |
£11.83 |
| |
24 Carat |
£12.99 |
I just love your posts by the way. Always interesting, informative and with up to date info. Thankyou.
_______________________
0
Like
|
Hmm either those prices are out of date or they are gettinga good deal.
24 carat is 99.9%
11.21 per gram is 320gbp per oounce or 640$. Spot today is 870.
_______________________
0
Like
|
Roberto!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope this helps .
http://www.gold-traders.co.uk/what-we-buy.asp
SCRAP GOLD PRICES
| 9 carat |
£4.25 / gram |
| 10 carat |
£4.72 / gram |
| 14 carat |
£6.62 / gram |
| 15 carat |
£7.08 / gram |
| 18 carat |
£8.49 / gram |
| 22 carat |
£10.37 / gram |
| 24 carat |
£11.21 / gram |
This message was last edited by sandra on 6/12/2008.
_______________________
0
Like
|
The way to buy gold for most people is to buy coins and the great advantage of UK coins of the realm like Soverigns is that they are both vat and CGT free. If you like collecting things as, you can buy rare coins that have what is called a numismatic value on top of its gold content.
Wether you buy coins bars or whatever you should be looking for its premium in percent above spot. Ie today spot gold trades at 870$ an ounce, so a Krugerrand might cost say 886$ or 2 percent above spot. The price above spot will be lower if you buy ten coins rather than one.
www.taxfreegold.co.uk is a good to site to learn and to buy.
_______________________
0
Like
|
Craftmanship my a*rse. I never wear the damned thing, because (apart from making me look like a complete....) all the links are stretched to breaking point after a few years wear. Much better to buy 9ct Ratner's crap, I reckon!
Tola bars? Are they anything like Toblerone bars? Just thinking about Rixxy's suggestion.
How many coffees? Well, according to TJ, we could be in this slump for a long time, so I'm thinking at least 2 or 3 thousand cups to tide me over (based on 3 or 4 a day over the next couple of years, shall we say?)
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
0
Like
|
Roberto, I'm out early next month, if you want me to pick some gold up for you!! Although, you don't want to buy jewellery though - you pay per gram for the "craftsmanship" - buy tola bars! Want me to check the prices for you???? How many coffees are you planning on purchasing????
0
Like
|
Do they eat garlic bread in Norway, then?
Smiley, I'm looking right now at how many coffees I should be able to buy with my bling. Looking at the recipt from the gold souk in Dubai in '99, I reckon I paid about £7.24 per gram. Presumably it's not pure (22ct rather than 24) and presumably I would only get "scrap" value (well, it is a bit garish, and does make anyone wearing it look like a drug dealer, or at least a complete w*nker), but I'd love to know what it would buy me now. From what I can make out, gold today is around £14 per gram. So, was this the best investment I ever made? And should I rush back and buy loads more?
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
0
Like
|
|
|
Again, I understand the theory perfectly, but I still maintain that the bloke in the cafe next door to me will not exchange a coffee for a bit of gold, from me or even a US navy pilot. I could try offering him my Dubai bling bracelet, but with so many look-see men pedalling their knock-off Rolexes, I just know he won't believe it's worth as much as his damned cafe solo. For God's sake, the man won't even accept a €500 note! As far as he's concerned, unless you've got the exact change, you can p*ss off. (That's why I don't take my morning cafe solo there!)
This all reminds me why I dropped out of Economics A-level classes. Theory is all well and good, but it didn't help me get a pint in the pub opposite the school. Somehow the publican didn't understand demand and supply theory. To me it was simple - I demand, he supplies. He just kept coming up with some BS about me being under 18 - whatever that had to do with it.
Joking aside, TJ, do you really think gold is the best investment at the moment? If everybody thinks the same, couldn't the same thing happen as happened in 1980? I mean, certain conditions now are comparable to '79, aren't they? I know, I know, look at the long term....but then, couldn't you say the same about property, or even the stock market?
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
0
Like
|
And pirates always have a gold earring to keep the hip out of salvage.
Roberto - just buy chocolate - everyone likes it and you can make money on it!!! 
Ive just realized - my dad must be James Bond! He was always adamant (but changed that identity too) to have gold of some sort around, just in case!!!!!
_______________________
Quite frankly m'dear, I don't give a damn!
www.herbalmarbella.com
0
Like
|
In the words of Dads Army - We're all dooooooomed - bring on the Three Horsepeople (even thats PC these days) of the Apocalypse - backpackers from China hmmmm thats an interesting thought - will they have left their cameras behind.
Best thing Rob is to buy an oil field - I know where you can get one for 600,000,000 USD - then you can take a flask of crude with you to trade for your coffee - mind you a flask of crude would probably buy you 10 coffees unless you wnet to Starbucks and then you would need two flasks!!
James Bond always has a strip of sovereigns or Krugers secreted in his attache case as well as US Navy pilots
_______________________
Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com www.marbellamortgages.com www.comparetravelcash.co.uk
0
Like
|
But last time I checked, my local tailor only accepts cash or credit cards. And when did you last try paying for a coffee with a piece of gold? I need convincing. Please excuse my naivety (ignorance), but how exactly does this work?
Actually Roberto in practice the reverse is true. There is a saying that " a man may not accept your currency (paper) everywhere you go, but he will always accept your gold"
You are actually mistaken about money, but then I accept that so was I before I research it. What we think of as money ie a Euro note is not really money atall, but rather a piece of paper that we accept has a certain amount of value. When paper notes and coins were devised they were a call on a certain quantity of gold or silver. A UK pound sterling wwas just that, a pound of sterling silver. If you wanted you could go into a bank and exchange it for real gold or silver on request. The bank or central bank had to keep vaults of gold all stacked in neat piles. Since people needed small amounts of change it was practical to use coins and notes as a proxy for gold and silver.
Since the currency was backed by gold, the dollar was deemed "good as gold" and the currecy held its value as a store of wealth as bnaks could only print notes and make coins if they actually had the metal to back it.
Obviously governments were not keen on the gold standard because they could not print money or overspend. If the public felt nervous about their paper notes they could at any time redeem them for gold.
As soon as the money system left the gold standard, govs were free to print money at will, the result being a little like leaving a fox in charge of the hen house.
Til today US navy pilots have in their survival kit gold soverigns. The thinking is that anywhere in the world they land, friendly or not, someone will always accept their gold.
_______________________
0
Like
|
This is all very interesting, but I'm still not sure what I should do.
I understand that property is out. Seems the stock market is a no-no as well, and keeping pounds or euros in the bank sounds little better than keeping it under my matress. I know TJ extolls the virtues of gold and silver. The article said that an ounce of gold a thousand years ago would clothe a man in the finest suit, and today, an ounce of gold would do the same. But last time I checked, my local tailor only accepts cash or credit cards. And when did you last try paying for a coffee with a piece of gold? I need convincing. Please excuse my naivety (ignorance), but how exactly does this work?
I also follow the arguments about industry and food and fuel prices etc. etc., and that part of the UK's problem is that it no longer produces anything for itself. Does the same apply to Spain? I wasn't aware that Spain ever produced much in the way of industry apart from a few old FIATs made under licence. And what does Gillespie mean by "lunatic despot regimes will not be able to hold you to ransom if you are a mostly self sufficient country.....................Look at the Norwegians, Swedish and Danes". So, making (and buying) lots of boxy safe cars and flat pack furniture will save us from the Axis of Evil?
I'm sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic, I don't mean to be. It's just that I'm a bit bewildered by all this (very little brain, and long words bother me!) Just trying to make some sense of it all. From what I can make out, my best bet would be to move to China and buy a goldsmith business.
And bloody Hell, as for TJ's last remark about Chinese backpackers arriving in Europe soon, getting excited about "how cheap everything is as we serve them coffee. Just like stuff seemed incredibly cheap to us all those years ago when we first went to Spain and Asia" - all I can say is, I'm glad I don't have any daughters. 
_______________________
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
0
Like
|
And so the world goes round and round - someone speculated to me about 5 years ago that eventually the UK would become like a "gaol" for Europe - the US of Europe would send all the non workers and undesirables they did not want to the UK and the only people who worked there would be weekly commuters all living elsewhere in Europe - seemed a little far fetched and a bit 1984 but the way things are going I can start to see the credibility of such an idea - hope not but if it has little else to offer then I guess it could be so. Perhaps thats a theme for a movie - hmmm give that one some thought - Will Smith in the starring role - with his faithful dog by his side - deserted streets except at night when mayhem breaks loose.
_______________________
Smiley - patrick@marbellamortgages.com www.marbellamortgages.com www.comparetravelcash.co.uk
0
Like
|
Smiley
Of course you are correct. The idea was that the UK was too "sophisticated" to do this sort of grubby work making real things, anyway as you say we wern't much good at it anyway. The idea was that we would concentrate on "higher" things like technology and marketing and design. The idea was that these services we provided should match in value to the goods we import. Unfortunatley the UK's trade deficit is testament to that fact that this never happened. In reality we became a nation of shoppers and estate agents. With the help of the central bank providing cheap money, capital was missallocated on a vast scale, spent on houseing and consumer goods, rather than on production or savings. The east meanwhile was doing the exact opposite, saving and producing as well as churning out millions up millions of educated graduates.
In our country if your industry went into decline, rather than take this as a chance to retrain to a higher skill, people went on the dole and then on the sick, where they wouldn't be bothered by someone asking them to work. The gov. convinced us that unemployment was low when infact the long term sickness benefit was three times the unemploment bill. During the good easy credit times money was there to pay these sick people. But as a country we became more and more obese, wallowing in phoney wealth whilst the productive half of the world got on with getting richer in a sustainable way.
As our currency declines stuff like oil will get more and more expensive to us, whilst remaining affordable to the east who's currencies are riseing. In a decade Chinese kids will come here with their backpacks and exclaim how cheap everything is as we serve them coffee. Just like stuff seemed incredibly cheap to us all those years ago when we first went to Spain and Asia and you could buy a coffee for 5p.
_______________________
0
Like
|