What would you do differently?

Having been around on EOS since the start, I find it interesting that in the early days most of the posts and questions being posed were about buying; now there seem to be more about selling. Also interesting that so many have responded here with "rent don't buy".

When I think back to the date of completion on the small property we purchased in Spain, and read all the coments for the last year, I am so disapointed in the Spanish Laws, I feel that different zones make their own rules up and none are controlled by the Spanish Government.

I would never encourage anyone to purchase in Spain unless the Governing bodies clean up the crime against property byers. Previously I did not tell about the Lies that the Notary told us at the completion. She said that our final payment for the purchasing our property would be held with the same size Bank draft payment from the Builder. Until the work was completed on the complex which ment 57k would be held at the Notary Office. If Builder has not complete the work then the fund would go to the cost of completing the unmade road and many other areas. If you add up what all the purchasers this woud be a huge sum.

After several months we contacted the Notary who said the Builder had been paid as all the work was done. Total untruths by whom. When the Completion was arranged we were told by the Lawyer, to attend the Notary's office smart clothing as it was important to impress the Notary. More lies 8 years on and the work on the Complex is still not completed. It appears that all the so called Spanish officials, live by the lies they tell to all those who would would be stupid enough to purchase a property in Spain. At age 64 one would hope to be able to trust the so called Spanish officials. We are not stupid, the lesson learnt has cost us dearly.  We are still paying for the evil deads they have inflicted on our Complex. How many other people have been cheated in Spain, only time will tell.

Therefore each and every one of the officials we trusted when purchasing in 2007 should not be trusted. But they do have the Spanish Laws on their side. which leaves great holes in the trust one receives when purchasing in Spain. Want to sell the property then you will have to pay heavy tax even on the Capital losses you have made. Just caught in a big net of crooked dealing. We are very dissapointed, just wait to be able to spend our retirement in Spain once we have the Habitation certificate. We pay almost €1000 a year for administration, plus the taxes and insurance. I am so pleased we did not give up our home in the UK, at least we feel save even though our standard of living is not what it would be if we had not stupidly purchased in Spain.

So will such a shift in perception with negative knock on effect on the real estate industry be the wake up call i.e. will this educative process and comprehension of some uncomfortable realities be sufficient to act as incentive to better regulate the real estate and legal conveyancing systems in Spain to the longer term benefit of all???? (Alongside good consistent judicial rulings that adequately compensate those so badly compromised during this last decade, I might add. Otherwise this will be perceived as rhetoric which will do little to reassure. The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak).

Pitiful cash investment interest rates have helped to fuel property purchase, there are a lot of folk out there with + £200K earning circa 2% p/a. We were very tempted to part with €160K for an apartment that we had viewed pre cash at an asking price of €360K, however we didn't and very likely wouldn't even have considered it had we been earning say 5% p/a on our cash. As it happens we now have 2 dogs and have settled into retirement very well, the last thing on our agenda is to dip our toes into the cauldron that is the Spanish property market. 

I can't think of much I'd do differently.  I had made a start at learning the language (probably up to A2 level, more or less) before coming out full time, and chose an all-Spanish inland village in order to force myself to completely immerse in the language (much easier when you are on your own, obviously).  I live right in the centre so didn't have any of those illegal-building problems, nor a track that floods or subsides, nor problems getting internet.  The wonderful city of Málaga is just under half an hour away, and I stay down there in the historic centre a couple of nights a week to soak up the atmosphere and enjoy the local eateries.  The combination of village and city is just perfect for me.  I kept my cottage in Dorset and visit there for one week in ten, so keep close contact with friends (of course Facebook helps with that too).  Here in Spain I explore Andalucía and the lovely nearby mountains, eat out or in my neighbours' houses a few times a week, and life is good.  I work as a volunteer at a Málaga soup kitchen, which originally I began in order to get a different "type" of language practice, but now do it because I love being part of this much-needed organisation.  My favourite thing that happens rather regularly is when a Spaniard asks my nationality, and is then surprised when I say "English" and replies "But the English don't learn Spanish!" :-)

Tamaraessex and others who would not do anything differently,

It's good to hear your positive experiences but I wonder do you not see any need for greater regulatory controls within the real estate industry and conveyancing system in Spain to better protect purchasers, those such as Poedoe who have been so badly let down by the existing conveyancing system in Spain?

Most certainly ads. It has to happen for people to regain confidence in buying here. Even if we don't want to sell, after our demise,  our families probably would like to.

Those of us who escaped without tooooo much hassle appear not to have bought via the UK property exhibitions.

Atlas International was based in the town I lived, actually knew the original owners,  and had I liked their style of properties , fortunately I didn't, might have bought from them. Certainly saw no reason not to trust them.  Consequently cannot understand how the Brit based companies got away with scamming their own countryman. 

IMHO, It was, and is, a disgrace.

Good point floella and perhaps more should be done from the UK to better regulate these UK exhibitors.

But I also worry for those still "allowed to" purchase properties without legal licences in place in certain regions of Spain, and the need for adequate compensation structures to be put in place for those previously compromised through no fault of their own, alongside tightening of regulation to prohibit these ongoing sales from taking place (which just perpetuate the problem).

You do what you do, you're only human and will make mistakes, some of the benefit of hindsight cock ups we've made in the UK don't bear thinking about. By reading some of the posts on this forum I am certain that we would have made many mistakes, but one of them wouldn't have been to buy in what some members refer to as 'The Real Spain', which appears to be located as far away from the coast as is mathamatically possible, which is just the where we find ourselves in the UK, however I've not found anywhere remotely similar to the Peak District National Park in Spain.

I think that if you get the location correct then you can sort out the other matters at your lesure, however if you find yourself in an area/property  that doesn't live up to your expectations and is difficult to sell, that is a completely different scenario. I reckon that renting before buying is sound advice. 

What is required is a better regulated system that minimises "mistakes" by imposing a structure to ensure existing law and good regulations are consistently adhered to in a timely fashion, and not a legal lottery without adequate time constraints in place as sadly currently exists.

Failure to review reform of a conveyancing system where "mistakes" of the nature identified by Poedoe and others are "allowable" and sadly common place in certain regions of Spain, does a grave diservice to the real estate industry and to the image of Spain as being a good place to invest.

It shouldn't have to be this way.......

"....what some members refer to as 'The Real Spain', which appears to be located as far away from the coast as is mathamatically possible". This phrase always makes me laugh. Most of the time, those who smugly claim to have avoided the beer-bellied Brit concrete jungles of the Costas and "discovered" the "Real Spain" are basically covering up for the fact that they couldn't afford to buy nearer the coast. I know this will offend some people. But I'm offended by the implication that because I live on the coast, and in one of the original resorts to boot, I don't know the Real Spain. What a lot of tosh. It's like suggesting there's no difference between Blackpool and Mousehole - they're both on the coast after all. The one thing I would not have done differently would be to live in some god-forsaken deserted tumble-weed pueblo in the middle of nowhere. 

(Peak District National Park sounds good though!)

Great post Roberto, I've been told on this forum that the run between La Cala and Puerto Cabopino is not in the 'Real Spain', and that the fisherman that I chat to on the Calahonda beach are not 'Real Spaniards'. As you imply I think that there are a plethora of skint members who have convinced themselves that living in goat fettling nowhere is the 'Real Spain', good luck to them as it keeps them well away from me. 

It would be good to hear how the Spanish perceive this debate about the real Spain and thejr thoughts on what they would have done differently, instead of just a one-sided perspective perhaps!

I'm sure that the Spanish are not going to post on an ex-pat forum, and that they couldn't actually care a scoopy doo.  

I prefer to believe that there are Spanish people who care deeply about the situation but I take your point about this being an expat forum.

Perhaps if anyone managed to watch Cameron's bit on the TV news this evening you should have heard the best  "One-sided perspective" you will ever listen to. 

We are a couple retired at age 60  wanted a small house in the sun and a to keep our house in the UK so in 2012 we purchased on Camposol near Mazarron after searching for two years with many visiting trips and rentals . Three years on we are selling our house at Camposol and would say overall its not a bad spot to buy a little holday home as prices are still rock bottom . So whats been good ? 1. The ease of getting to and from Camposol by low cost airlines, low cost car hire, deserted motorways,  2. The fact you can have a bit of company if you choose to at the many bars. 3. The Port of Mazzaron is a lovely spanish seaside resort 10 minutes away . 4. The weather is fantastic 5. The Urbanization has every facility you would ever need , Supermarkets, doctors, vets, dentist, Insurance agents, banks bars and places to eat. 6. due to the many tight fisted brits living here ,( prices are low ) , quizes, karaoke, etc are the norm all year round. loads of the full timers love it ! NOW the bad side 1, Red Tape red tape and more red tape . even as a non resident you will be involved in lots of paperwork. 2. The committees and residents asociation etc.  ( CRA For example) Full of "retired people" up their own ar,,s" on a power trip . Camposol has lots of these commitees,,, Stear well clear !!! .3. poor building specification , most houses are built with poor noise insulation and maintainance is continuous with pebble dashed cement everywhere needs painting ( go for a low cost DETACHED HOUSES. ) stay away from semis and flats.  We finish every trip with three days at the spanish end of Benidorm ( old town which we really enjoy... people watching ) .. 4. Selling and buying this is the worst part fo Spain as you wil be stung at both the purchase 10% cost at each end  of you spanish dream, Estate Agents fees are rediculous, Notary Fees, and Tax tax and more tax ,    We wanted to buy abroad weve done it and now moving on. Camposol has some stunning houses and most of them have private pools and large gardens 4000 pools !, Now the Euro is rock bottom so good time to start looking.

Final Advise,,,,, as other posters say rent rent rent first.

Absolute tripe, Roberto. Why do people on here try and live peoples' lives for them and think that everyone is the same and wants exactly the same thing? Pigeon-holing people is stupid.

We bought in 2001 on the coast, Orihuela Costa. Great for holidays but packed with the type of Brits (and other nationalities) that everyone complains about on here in the Summer. Winter was dead and loads of places closed down for months. Yeah, fine for walking on the beach but getting flooded every rainy season wasn't too nice. No chance would we actually live there. Not that keen on "full English" and John Smith's on draught or the "best fish n chips" on the coast.

Moved the other side of Torrevieja near La Mata a few years later. Again, close to the beach but getting on it was impossible in the Summer. Loads of apartment blocks being broken into because no-one live there.

In 2009 we moved "inland". Not to an some tumble weed pueblo in the middle of nowhere but away from the crowds and the desolate areas of the Costas depending on the time of year. If we want the beach we drive 10 to 15 minutes.

So, we've owned two places near the beach and actually on the Costa. Now we have a great place we want to stay and live in, it's our home.

Which pigeon-hole do you want to slot me into? Or Tamaraessex who seems very happy in her Spanish town?

The mistake people make is that they think we all want the same thing. We don't, especially on circumstances such as visiting for a week or two or actually living here.

Don't know Bob. Where did you find your Real Spain?

I think this thread has made interesting reading. People express themselves better on forums such as this and most of it is constructive. It is unlikely many would do that in face to face contact and especially in groups where heated arguments always develop.

I don't think posters make assumptions that everyone wants the same thing or try and pigeon hole folks. Mostly it seems to me they offer the simple benefit of their own experience. That in historian terms is valuable primary source. You either take note of it or not.  

Everyone has regrets in life. Everyone wishes they had done something differently at some time in their lives. Anyone who does not accept that is living in denial. Life is a journey, a vivid changing experience. Making mistakes is part of the learning process. Self-confidence gets stronger, we grow and become more rounded people going on to do things differently.

It’s being afraid of making mistakes that limits you and your only life time experience.