Is the EU responsible for Brexit chaos

Yes you do because you have failed to capitalise on that win for three years and I am satisfied to have a stalemate for another forty

Javi 17 million from a population of nearly 47 million eligible voters is not a majority. Incidentally contrary to what you seem to believe I actually have a very nice life thank you very much. This forum is a mere personal distraction.

Perry - If I can keep Customs Union, Single Market and get a final say via a new referendum on the deal then I am prepared to leave.  Otherwise, I am happy to remain and negotiations can continue from within the EU for as long as you like. 

An excellent outcome Perry. The numbers in parliament do lean towards that conclusion. Yet they seem unable or unwilling to get it across the line. The rabid leavers who seek a no deal are a small minority so logic dictates they should be defeated. I believe a final say second plebiscite is the only way the situation can be resolved in the long run with public consent.

There is probably only 10% hardcore remainders and 10% hardcore leavers, 80% of the population don’t really give a toss anymore and are more interested in the next episode of Coronation Street. That 80% are so sick of the whole thing that they would and will vote in anyone who they believe can bring it all to an end, any end will do.

Just remember whatt your dictatorship said perry and minky, "You cannot cherry pick, it is not an a la carte menu"

"Javi 17 million from a population of nearly 47 million eligible voters is not a majority"  - I wish you would get your facts right Minky. 47 million did not vote in any election, that is the total electorate, the turnout for the last one was 69% which means that 17 million is a majority. BTW I am glad you are enjoying your nice life subsidised by the UK Taxpayers.

Jarvi

BTW I am glad you are enjoying your nice life subsidised by the UK Taxpayers.

The nastiness and made up bits by the Leavers yet again. How do you mean "subsidised by the UK Taxpayers?" Haven't they already paid their NI and taxes and would be having the same life in UK "subsidised"? 

My husband and I, for example, still pay lots of tax into the UK on our pensions which we worked hard for, in my husband's case over 40 years of paying taxes and NI plus still paying taxes. I worked for 35 years in the NHS and, again, paid my dues.

Anyway, hope you are enjoying your life subsidised by the UK taxpayer. And, if you are of a certain age, getting your free bus passes, your winter fuel allowance and being able to get pension tax credits. Things those of us who live in Spain can't do.

But keep making things up. 

And, no, I won't be lectured by a bunch of people who protest their intelligence yet still haven't learned the difference between lose and loose.

mariedav

Can you point out where I referred to you and your husband specifically? "Haven't they already paid their NI and taxes and would be having the same life in UK "subsidised"? Who is they? Are you saying every single ex pat has paid 40 years worth of tax?  As for your comments re bus passes etc I get none of them, but it seems the nastiness that you say leavers are responsible seems to fit you entirely. If people want to leave the UK forever that is their choice but they should not dictate to the rest of us how we should live.

Javi -47 million did not vote in any election, that is the total electorate, the turnout for the last one was 69% which means that 17 million is a majority. BTW I am glad you are enjoying your nice life subsidised by the UK Taxpayers.

That is not the point I was making. Some people abstain from voting or cannot be bothered. However, they are still part of the electorate and have a view they just don't express it. So you cannot claim 17 million is a majority opinion.

You have no idea of my financial circumstances and I would appreciate if you would kindly cease personalising the thread.

Surely you cannot include the can’t be bothered and excluded people.

Next Prime Minister

Nigel Farage 2/1

Boris Johnson 3/1

Jeremy Corbyn 6/1

Dominic Raab 8/1

Michael Gove 8/1

Jeremy Hunt 12/1

Andrea Leadsom 20/1

Now, Jarvi, you have me intrigued. You say a life being subsidised by taxpayers but don't explain how they are being subsidised. You then say you aren't talking of anyone so, the intriguing bit, were you just having a pop at mickey and perry? In which case, how do you know their circumstances?

It sounded a lot like you were having a go at all those who have come to Spain to live, even falling into the mind set (common nowadays) that people who "leave UK forever" have no say in their home country even though it will affect them as much, if not more, than those who haven't. Those of us who pay taxes there, have families there and so on.

So, to clear up a point, who are these people living a life subsidised by the UK taxpayer? And if they were living in UK, wouldn't they be getting subsidised even more? 
 

Finally, as all these discussion seem to get into slagging matches among people who can't understand someone else's point of view, who exactly is telling you how to live your life? 

Minky, Where does it state in my post that I claim 17 million is a majority opinion? You yourself said "The support he seems to currently have come from they that voted leave.in the referendum", so that would be 17.4 million to be precise. As for being personal I quote "Incidentally contrary to what you seem to believe I actually have a very nice life thank you very much", so it was you initially who brought your personal circumstances into it, not me.

The UK pays more into the EU than it receives back therefore it is subsidising other countries and as such the people who live there - simple arithmetic.  

Simple arithmetic, if Nigel gets less than 17.4 million votes it means taht Leave has lost ground, right?

If you say so it must be right

As for being personal and insulting one and other, this is a BREXIT thread and that is what it always turns into. I find it quite nostalgic like the days of ‘’Watch with Mother’’.

There is never anything new to say, we’ve all heard it all before, so let’s have a nice personal slagging match that the paying advertisers enjoy and any potential new members the advertisers are looking for think I am not joining EYE OF INSULT ONE ANOTHER.

 "It's interesting some posters focus here only on one party"

Now Micky, that really is calling the kettle black when the whole thread of the argument goes back to you saying it was all the ERG's fault that Mrs Mays deal was not passed by parliament. And the refutation did not just mention one party it mentioned the Ulster Unionists as well as the ERG and Labour.

Agreed the Euro elections are probably a waste of time and money (but perhaps not, if we do not leave) but it has been shown in the past that when many of the electorate change the habits of a lifetime many of them continue to change their voting pattern. I'm sure this worries both the two main parties.

And - I'm all for strong language about duplicitous MP's (not the sort of stuff that passes on social media these days) but let's be nice to each other.

Since only 15 point something million voters turned out for the last EU election, Half of 17.4M  for one new party would be more than significant.

God I'm really looking forward to election night. If they are wasting all that money we might as well enjoy it!

On the opposition benches, there remains no incentive to prop up a deeply unpopular deal and a deeply unpopular government. Even Brexiteer Labour MPs (or the much larger group of Labour MPs in Leave-voting constituencies) recognise that the deal satisfies very few people and that there is no political capital to be had in supporting it. 

Meanwhile, supporters of a second referendum have their tails up and now see a straight revoke/no-deal vote as the most likely outcome. 

The withdrawal agreement bill is friendless amongst the UK's new purist and populist politics.

Source - The Times Brexit briefing.

The best prediction appears to be May gone by end of June. Johnson in and no deal thereafter. How that squares with the legislation that prevents a no deal is a mystery. The markets seem to believe it's a viable risk and Sterling has tumbled yet again. 

"More than half of Europeans believe the EU is likely to collapse within a generation, despite support for the bloc hitting heights not recorded in more than a quarter of a century. - The Guardian yesterday. Bring it on the sooner the better..

The EU will collapse within 5 years. France and Germany will be out within 2 years. Greece will be the loyalist member. This will solve BREXIT because we won’t have anything to leave.

The EU will go from strength to strength