ITV show on the Costa Del Sol

Roybud hits the nail for me.  The Spanish property market is totally different to that in The UK.  Because so many Brits were buying, we made it seem the same for a while, but the simple fact that they have loads of spare land and we don't surely is the basis of the problem.  In the UK there is always a demand for housing, the only thing causing a blockage at the moment is the lack of mortgages, there is a shortage of housing, so once the morgage supply problem has been overcome prices will rise once more and it will become a sellers market.  Where we live this is evident in the fact that there are loads of low-end and high-end properties on the market, but most of us in the mid price band are just sitting it out.  The majority are fairly elderly and don't have morgages and so can afford to wait.  When a mid-range property comes on the market, it sells fairly quickly, houses in our road seem to be selling well, albeit at a figure much reduced from a year ago.

In Spain, as Roybud said there are hundreds of thousands of unsold properties.  These will sell eventually, taking maybe decades to clear the completed stocks, but what about all those thousands of unfinished properties?  Who will buy them and finish them off?  If the developer goes bust, there is literally no value in an unfinished property and to take on maybe hundreds on a big development with untold faults and problems is a nightmare. It's going to be easier to start again with new deposits from more unsuspecting buyers (lots of spare land).  It seems that those poor souls on uncompleted urbanizations will be stuck, surrounded by a forest of derelict and slowly decaying concrete columns and unfinished facilities for a long time to come. In the meantime the Spanish homebuilding industry will be dead in the water and the fat cats will roll away with their ill gotten gains. When they do start again, they will move on somewhere else.

We were lucky perhaps, apart from a few confrontations with a developer who is still in business, we had a fairly smooth ride.  The appartement is quite good quality on an almost finished urb., with no part completed properies on the site.  However, we have decided not to live there permanently (another story) and can luckily just about afford to keep it as a bolt hole. So perhaps we can look at the situation a little more dispassionately than some. It could have so easily all gone wrong.

Mike

Oops!  Sorry for the typo's.

Mike

Thank you Team G for the link to the TV show, we had missed it and it made interesting viewing.  Bit sad for Wally brought a tear to the eye and obviously we don't really know his circumstances but personally we wouldn't have moved into a property with those conditions - or would we?  As we say we don't know his circumstances, but it is sad that he is not enjoying retirement.

Roxxy you did a good job there and came over very well.

Jojan

xetog

well said. Indeed it seems the buying process was a bit of a lottery. Homework or not, many were still get conned. Often by those we have to trust like lawyers, planning office/local councils etc, and even with a very black and white case, justice (if it comes at all?) can take years. The warnings are very clear now however.

As for the supply/demand situation in Spain, well as you say, what will happen to thousands of half finished unwanted properties? There is obviously huge amounts of money tied up in these, so something must give sooner or later?  The corruption and lack of regulation really has come back to bite Spains costas in a big way, and it's the poor victims of this like wally who are paying the costs.

morerosado

welcome back. That's good news indeed, and great to see many kind people helping to improve Wally's lot. It does make you wonder how many others are in Wally's position though?, who's plight has never been highlighted, and so just walk away or try and live on a half finished building site. How on earth have people found themselves in this position?. No BG?, no LFO?, false promise? no regulation to stop developers just walking away from their responsability?. It's a situation that is just part of the bigger picture that Spain now finds itself in, and must bring about changes fast I think if it wants to ever get out of its current overbuild mess.

Don't forget that part two of the ITV mini series called "Spain paradise lost" will be aired tonight 24th June at 9pm BST. (10pm Spain)

Links to the official ITV Press release for Ep1 and Ep2.

I will reserve my judgement until I've also seen this episode.

Well I do feel sorry for the people in Almeria if they had did there homework but the brits at the beggining of the programm!! how dare they think that "they will do things" the brits way!!! not even learing the language etc!!!

The couple in Benidorm sorry i think left their brains on the palne!

So

Whats the difference between the hair dresser marching into Marbella, he will probably make a lot of money, and the couple in the cafe/bar going skint.

RESEARCH,PLANNING, INVESTMENT, DELIVERY.

But its not rocket science, the same rules apply the world over.

Steve

There's another thread (here) started today by someone thinking of buying a business in Spain. They've noticed how cheap some bars / cafes are now being offered (although they're actually considering a laundry).

I hope they do their research, planning etc. etc. When the bit on the Benidorm bar couple started with "they re-mortgaged their house in the UK......" I said "oh-oh! Here we go".  When they said they didn't think they had a good chance of selling the bar, since the last owners took 3½ years to find them, I thought "oh jeeeeeeez!"

No, it's not rocket science. But it seems some people just can't recognise a bad smell even if you smack them repeatedly about the face with a dead fish. Still, at least the sweet, concerned agent who flogged them the bar is in with a chance of a repeat commission, and good to see Union Jerk still doing well out of the continuous ebb & flow of Brits.

Marbella - what can one say? If I had 5 million notes to splash on a luxury pad, and Kristina the Impaler opened the door, I'd run a mile. Is it just me, or is that woman scary?

The hairdresser? He's not gay, you know? The man doth protest too much. Should have opened his salon in Torremolinos.

The village of the damned in the middle of nowhere (Almeria) - I'm mildly curious. Are the affected only British? I know this was a show made for British TV, but are there any other nationalities affected?

And before I get slated for my lighthearted, tongue in cheek response to a show highlighting other people's misfortune, may I put it on record that I genuinely feel for those poor devastated people. What an absolute disgrace. I hope that smug looking arrogant fat cat mayor gets his comeuppance, and that these people see some justice, soon.

Well said Roberto, spot on! There are those that find themselves in problems through their own ignorance and lack of basic research etc and those that are innocent victims of the Spanish system. Both deserve our sympathy but for different reasons.

The first group have a dream of running their own business in Spain but have no previous experience, not even in the UK, and have not done the research that is needed. Who do they turn to for advice? Everyone involved is in it for the money: The friendly agent? she has seen it time and time again as naive Brits keep on coming but that doesn't stop her making the next sale and clocking up another fee, knowing full well that within 6 months they will be putting the property back on the market as they struggle to stay afloat - another fee! The lawyers? well the less said about Spanish lawyers the better!

The second group are innocent people who put their trust in a corrupt, incompetent and totally shambolic government and legal system. Again, hard working Brits dreaming of enjoying the latter years of their lives keep on coming and what have the Spanish done to protect these people? The Spanish authorities should be ashamed of themselves. These people purchased in good faith, trusted the developer, the lawyer, the notary etc etc and it still didn't stop them from being sold a property that was illegally built - isn't that fraud?

The Spanish need to get to grips with these problems and clean up their act - fast! They have taken the phrase 'buyer beware' to a completely new level. I sincerely hope that all of the people featured in the programme and those in similar situations across Spain are able to resolve their difficulties and get their lives back on track.

roybud

well said. It's great to read posts like your last one. I think you are smack on with both groups, and it's good to see someone with an understanding of  just how often, far too little real research is done before starting a business in Spain, and also, just how badly the Spanish authorities have treated many people. Not just those of us from the UK, but also to it's own people, by corruption and lack of regulation causing so much damage to the costa's, and the whole property/tourist  industry. 

As you may or may not know, I fall very much in to the second group. Despite a 7 year fight for justice, and a very black and white case of lies and deception, and a developer who is in court several times a week sometimes, for bad dealings, and could go bust any day, the judge in our long awaited case has taken over 9 weeks so far to make a decision, and lawyer tells us that all we can do is wait.  It leaves you thinking that however much you are in the right, the odds are heavily stacked against a fair result in a reasonable time frame.

My God, Kristina the Impaler (thanks Roberto) boy, yes, she was scary.  Was that a permanent botox on the upper lip and a set of false teeth underneath or simply sellotape holding the lip up?  If she's the Queen of Marbella society I'm glad I'm a pleb!  Mind you, the missus didn't half fancy that house, though, especiall indoor pool and the lift.

Absolutely no sympathy for the Rusty Nail owners, anyway who thinks running a bar (with absolutely no experience) would give you more time together needs their head examining. 

I did feel very sorry for those who had all the correct paperwork, LFO, mains supply and deeds etc only to be told the regional authorities are overruling the local authorities on rustic land.  However, this has now gone through the EU who have told the Spanish to clean up their act or lose EU funding so let's hope they get sorted out soon.  Too late for that couple who have already had their home demolished, though.  

I do think there is a case for freezing the developers assets and paying the owners back out of that rather than the owners trying to get compensation.  Also spotted the "Down with Atlas" placard so no surprises there.

As times have toughened the developer has totally vanished, is no longer in

Re the aforementioned tv programme, 

I was outraged at the british community who are based in Mairena (I think that's right spelling but not sure) the smugness of their lifestyle with the Kareoke bingo etc. and bragging about not having to learn the language, it was stated that they outnumber the Spanish residents 4 to 1 these are the people who want to create little britain in spain they infuriate me.  Re.  the couple who bought the bar in Benidorm the guy said he didn't know one end of a beer keg from the other and had to ask customers how to make drinks.  Why do people want to run a bar without experience, I have been in the catering trade for over forty years until I retired and you have to have health and hygiene/health and safety knowledge unless you want to poison or injure your patrons. Also what is it with the brits that they want to serve you in a tea shirt and a pair of jeans what is wrong with a smart short sleeved shirt and a decent pair of trousers! at least try and look the part. I was so sorry for the people in the position of waiting to see whether their houses would be demolished it must be a daily living nightmare, however it's lovely that previous posts have shown an interest in wanting to help, because I think that with a lot of us in Spain it's a case of before the grace of god go I.

regards Kathy

Dear All,

what is wrong with speaking your own native natural language in a "foreign" country???

that is what they did when they holidayed there, why should they change now they are retired and enjoying the sun permanently???

indeed, why should anyone do anything that is patently unnecessary???

why should that outrage anyone???

as to condemning the "Rusty Nail" people, why?? they took professional advice and chose from a number of like businesses, were they misled, did the professionals con them???

was it a TV setup, did we get the whole story??

are they as bad as Justin who didn't even need a lawyer????

surely the CDS queen story was a setup or is the truth stranger than fiction???

who actually believes that the super-rich are still buying at the same prices?????

as to "Planning" what is EOS doing about it??? Where are the maps showing the rustic land???

Is it not true that all frauds in property, without exception are facilitated by lawyers????

are they not the biggest and main criminals???

how many and who are those involved in the development featured, surely one of them posed the question for their fat fees??

do those that complete on unfinished, unspecified, unsatisfactory  properties do themselves and the rest of us a serious disservice????

were they persuaded to do so by a lawyer by chance???

the program spent a long time displaying the "Rusty Nail peoples inactivity, they must have been short of content.

Regards

Norman

Hi Normansands,

Sorry to have made you so angry, If your comments were for me then I was just expressing an opinion, I think there is more to life in Spain than settling into an English community just because it is easy. Imagine you live in a village in the UK have lived there all your life then suddenly you are over run with foreigners who don't speak your language and more or less take over. And before you say that they are putting economy into the village remember those people have survived a lifetime without us.  I also stand by my remarks re. the couple who bought the bar.  The pair of them could have got themselves a part time job in the catering trade before they ever bought over here if it was only to know how to pull a pint and familiarise themselves with cellar work.  However I must agree that  agents are only out for themselves and it would be nice if they had the decency to discourage people who obviously haven't a clue but we all know that is not going to happen.

The corruption that has happened in spain did not happen overnight  and this has been known in the UK also, and yet people are still willing to close their eyes, not do their home work and embark on what they think is going to be their dream life but turns out to be a nightmare, and before you think I am being cynical I do feel very sorry for these people.

We have had an apartment here for six years and retired over here last year Nov. 2008 we also have a run down cottage in a village near Granada, which is a Spanish speaking village only, so we have to make an effort, they are lovely people and go out of there way to help us if needed. Since we have been here we have had lots of ups and downs for various reasons and are not out of the woods yet, but we continue to be optimistic. You cannot get a feel for Spain unless you live and not just holiday here.

Kind regards, Kathy

Did anyone notice that the only people on the Paradise Lost programme who seemed happy were those living in La Marina?

I have been to La Marina several times and really believe this programme did not reflect the actual way of life there.  Yes, there are a lot of Brits, but so what?  There are lots of Spanish shops, bars, restaurants etc (and why not? It is in Spain, after all) where Spanish is spoken and lots of the Brits do attempt to converse, or at least order things, in Spanish.  No more and no less than anywhere else in Spain, come to that.  The people, all nationalities, seem very happy with the way things are and even other Europeans converse with the Spanish in English which is, nowadays, the Lingua Franca.  Even in places like Costa Rica and Thailand the English language is the preferred conversation tool.  (Mind you, I ordered our meal in a Costa Rica restaurant in San Jose in Spanish and the waiter replied "Dankschoen" - he didn't get much of a tip off me, I can tell you).

I agree with you bobaol.   I have been to La Marina on a couple of occasions and found it to be a very friendly place where everyone is happy (Spanish & English). 

The comparison to an English village is unfair - La Marina was just empty fields before it was built and sold mainly to the British.  It was built and marketed for sale to  foreigners (mainly British but other nationalties as well) it is not the same as a village in the UK that has stood for a long time being taken over by say east europeans.

Also a lot of the problems in England with imigration is that people come over here and either live of the UK state system or take away jobs from the British (usually because they are cheaper and work harder).  The situation in La Marina is totally different - many of the people going there are retiring and funding the area by spending their British pensions on Spanish goods.  This is good for the Spanish as it improves their lifestyle (more money) and it is good for the residents in La Marina who are enjoying their lifestyle.

It seams strange that the majority of the people who complain about the areas like La Marina are not the Spanish but English people who do not seam to be able to tolerate other harmless people's life style.

If you want a make a complaint about British people in Spain then complain about the drunken violent youth culture that we have - when these people holiday in Spain they cause nothing but trouble and tarnishes the reputatiuon of the rest of us.