Is It Time For Plan B

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10 Sep 2009 12:00 AM by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

Hello everyone.

Not so long ago if you mentioned that you have a property in Spain to most in the U.K they would have looked at you with envy .Investment, holiday home in the sun and the lifestyle it brings.?
 
Mention it today in the U.K and many look at you with almost a sympathetic look as they appear to know someone somewhere that has problems relating to the Spanish Property market or its laws.
Its laws or lack of it and the media it’s created here in the U.K will take many years, if ever to wash through.
We have many trying to fight for justice, one in particular that sums it up for thousands of others. Do I fight or take flight and count my losses now or risk loosing more. Sad and desperate situations that should never have been allowed to happen
 
Banks/Developers/Insurance Companies/Lawyers almost invite people to issue court proceedings in the knowledge that they can tie the claimant up for anything up to 10 years in a system that can’t or will not allow it’s self to be regulated.
There is little doubt that this system will not change unless it has to and the game now is they play for time in the anticipation that the markets will return and losses to the Banks/Developers and to purchasers are not crystallised.  Why because the doors of hell would open and reality is that apart from those that are well placed financially most would lose.
 
Reality is that you are where you are when the roundabout stopped and there is not a lot you can do about it as clocks can’t be turned backwards no matter how at times we wish they could.
So to the future!  Fight for justice to get deposits back? If you have a bank guarantee then maybe O.K but prepare for a long road ahead
Fight the developer. The assets that he once relied on to raise capital have crashed in most cases as one fine gent has discovered and any assets have been stripped long ago while the fight took years to go through the courts. The winner? THE LAWYER.
Petitions? Fantastic as any good lawyer wants change however as can be seen those inside fighting at times feel it’s a closed shop so potential massive momentum is stunted.
Also and understandably these petitions do get very personal and those that are happy object to the rantings of what they feel is a minority are offended by insults regarding Spain overall and its people.
One or two egos also play a part I feel.
Classic case of wasting time and effort when even those that are happy would wish the law is sorted as they could be the next victim or end up with property that no one wants as they can’t trust the legal system.
Good estate agents want change. Mortgage Brokers want change. They are neither stupid as they want a system that brings confidence back to the market. Yes even this forum owner must want the same.
 
Remember it was the Brits that ripped most of their own off and yes laws should have been in place but the law at the time just wasn’t established enough to even begin to deal with the problems on this scale. No Country would if something unforeseen to such a scale happened to them.  Remember the onus is on the buyer and as far as I know no one made anyone sign. May have been lied to and probably by U.K Agents on a fat commission and a flashy brochure. Don’t blame Spain for that. Blame the lawyer.
 
Those with property and have mortgages there may be better news. Banks don’t want your property anymore as they have enough already they can’t sell. Approach them to negotiate interest only periods of say 2/3 years. Remember they know just how long you could tie them up in the courts in very expensive legal fees and property that if sold would almost never cover costs.
Interest only period would reduce repayments by a massive amount and the option to rent to cover costs then becomes a reality for many until the market returns .Its keeps liquidity going through the banks and they need it like you or I to survive .You may not be able to change the laws but you sure are able to play them at the same game.
Don’t be bullied. Be firm and fair they don’t want another fight anymore. Those days may be in the past as they too pay for their folly. Don’t say it can’t be done as I have done it and without the stupid fees they wanted in the past.
 
Those that did complete years back are able to offset much of the drop in the market due to the currency situation and when it returns as it will one day then the gamble they took may prove a good very prudent.
 
Those that walked away .not complete perhaps feel that they have just cut the losses and indeed they may prove to be right also
We can’t tell the future and history will tell which proved the right course.
 
Reality it’s a buyers market and perhaps it’s a good idea to try to avoid being one that has to sell.
Banks/Developers/Insurance companies are using the law to buy time. Perhaps it’s about time the consumer did the same.
As it’s said. The time to buy is when no one wants appears to want it. When they want it it’s too late
 
The past is the past and anyone that has ideas to help ride the storm then I am sure that thousands would love to hear from you.
 




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10 Sep 2009 4:43 PM by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 Thank you Maria

You have a good point that you can probably buy property say 30% + down in many areas so deposit not lost (well in a sort of way)

Some that have completed have probably lost 30% as they bought at the top but  have taken only a paper loss.May be maybe not they may lose more but the bottom will be somewhere and from there hopefully it will rise.

Interest only over 3 + years and coverered by renting then nothing is lost.If the market doesnt improve in 3 years do the same again. It will one day.

If someone now buys at the bottom then maybe they make money or recoup losses.

Your comments regarding lawyers fees are relevent and I am sure that many would agree with.

With help and advice from within the forum perhaps some may wish to look to reposition themselves and move the tables around a little.

Clearly not for everyone but perhaps one or two may just stop and have a rethink.

 


 



This message was last edited by Chimps on 10/09/2009.



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10 Sep 2009 5:22 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

How many people can rent their property out on a regular basis, enough to cover mortgage interest. Not sound advice in this economic climate.





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10 Sep 2009 5:33 PM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

Now I am totally confused........wouldn't the developer's lawyer's fees to date have to be met by the client if the client withdrew the claim? Yet more money out of pocket? And how on earth does the client find a buyer for his property/deposit in a market that is massively over supplied, plus as Tish has pointed out the rental income is far from guaranteed given the over supply of rentals also?

If it's not a rude question, why can't the developer be expected to find a new buyer and settle with the claimant, instead of putting the onus on the very person who had done no wrong, i.e. the client who presumably had a valid claim against the developer. Unless I have misunderstood the procedure, It's extraordinarily arrogant to expect the client to have to make good a situation that he was not responsible for.........

Please explain the logic and how consumer's rights are being protected in this legal scenario as I can't see the justice in this.

 



This message was last edited by ads on 10/09/2009.



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10 Sep 2009 6:10 PM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9419 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

I know of a developer who was open to offer  reduced prices in properties  and the reduction was equal to the amount the buyers are trying to recoup in a different development.


 



This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 10/09/2009.

_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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10 Sep 2009 6:20 PM by ads Star rating. 4134 posts Send private message

 

 



This message was last edited by ads on 10/09/2009.



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10 Sep 2009 6:22 PM by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Tish

Capital and interest repayments before the new interest rates 2100 euros

After new interest rates capital and interest 1660 euros.

Interest only 600 euros. Rent for 700 (where previous you could rent for 1,200) and community fees are covered as well. If its the right price and as not many are buying rental companies appear very busy. Rented mine out in just over a week.

At the end of the day the property is now wiping its own nose.It was a financial problem and now its not at least for the time being.

Ads

Quite right and no one should have do what you say. Perhaps plan A is much better for some. 

Think maybe many developers wouldnt object it someone had withdrawn proceedings. Logic has long gone for many and lets not go down the protection of legal rights issues in Spain.

Regards to you.

Thanks Maria. Keep it coming .  Plan B  Is for a multitude of options.


 

.



.



This message was last edited by Chimps on 10/09/2009.



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10 Sep 2009 6:50 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Chimps ,where is your property? 

So every month you are paying out 600euros interest only.  I doubt very much you rent that out  52 weeks of the year. Year on year.  With the abysmal exchange rate that's an expensive holiday home! Also, 700 euros can't possibly cover repayments + costs.  



This message was last edited by Tish on 10/09/2009.



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10 Sep 2009 7:07 PM by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Tish .Advice
1 Plan A ? Not sound advice to rent? THEN DONT.
 
2 Plan A. Interest only delays the inevitable loss? THEN CARRY ON PAYING CAPITAL AS WELL IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT WITH THE EXCHANGE RATES AS THEY ARE. (That’s good advice.)
 
3 Plan A? Better to cut your losses and walk away, learn from the experience and get on with your life. THINK SOME MAY JUST FEEL THAT IF WE CAN THEY MIGHT JUST NOT LOSE ANYTHING OR LIMIT THE LOSS. 
 
4 Plan A?Word has it that prices wont go back to that paid?  DEPENDS ON WHAT WAS PAID AND IN WHAT AREA.! COULD BE RIGHT BUT THEN ITS DAMAGE LIMITATIONS AS THEY WILL GO BACK UP SOMETIME.
 
Tish. Forgive me as plan A is something I won’t accept.it means I lose now. Rather keep on with plan B. May lose anyway but at least I tried.




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10 Sep 2009 7:26 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Hmmm.? Sounds familiar.

  So, WHERE IS YOUR PROPERTY THAT YOU ARE VERY HAPPY WITH THEN CHIMPS ?(Following your lead with block capitals)





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10 Sep 2009 7:39 PM by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

 

I  could ask you the same question ?

None of your business really and neither is it mine to enquire about your personal situation.

As you said on another thread.These are simply my opinions based on my experience. YOU DONT HAVE TO AGREE.

You posted !

So every month you are paying out 600euros interest only.  I doubt very much you rent that out  52 weeks of the year. Year on year.  With the abysmal exchange rate that's an expensive holiday home! Also, 700 euros can't possibly cover repayments + costs.

NO IT DOES NOT COVER REPAYMENT COSTS.  ITS INTEREST ONLY ? 700 Euros rent COVERS THE INTEREST ONLY PAYMENTS AND COMMUNITY FEES,
 

EXCHANGE RATE IS NOT AN ISSUE AS I HAVE RENTED LONG TERM..Please look at the postings before you say its waffle.

NO ONE KNOWS IF I CAN RENT IT OUT YEAR ON YEAR. HOWEVER I HAVE  3 YEARS INTEREST ONLY AND SOMEONE WITH A 4 YEAR CONTRACT  IN THE AREA. THE FAMILY LOVE IT.



This message was last edited by Chimps on 10/09/2009.



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10 Sep 2009 7:44 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

So the answer is Green Hills.  You never change!!!





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10 Sep 2009 8:28 PM by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Tish

Reading through your postings you appear to have a lot to say for yourself regarding other people..With respect when you find you are out of your depth keep swimming.

Unless you have anything positive to ad then best not read this thread.The snide remarks and guessing games are becoming rather tiresome.





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10 Sep 2009 8:28 PM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9419 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

The current scenario: Cheap interests for mortgages, reduced prices in the market,  a good claim  against a developer.... once the action is advanced in Courts, if developer offers to you a good price discount in order to settle:

- Ask him to pay the legal fees you have paid to your lawyer for the cancellation action.

- Sign a new contract for at much reduced price, with an  specific completion dealine, Bank Guarantee and scale of price reduction for delays

- Hire a low interest, just interests mortgage or any of the good offers now in the market.

 You can even look for those developers who are willing to offer to you a property for the official price minus what yoy are claiming in Courts

 

Is not your position much better than 3-4 years ago when the market was so high!!

 

I can see it...!



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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10 Sep 2009 8:32 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Same ole threats too  Chimps

Some good advice there Maria.



This message was last edited by Tish on 10/09/2009.



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10 Sep 2009 8:32 PM by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Thanks again Maria.   Plan B ?   Turn the tables.  Look at all the options as the boot is perhaps now on the other foot,

It may be a very good time to look at all options.

Please enlighted me Tish. Who is Dan. Where has there been a threat other than to your ego. Please copy and paste for all to see ?
 



 

 



This message was last edited by Chimps on 10/09/2009.



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10 Sep 2009 8:38 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Chimps  I'm sooooo flattered that you've taken the time to read my posts. Was that all 660 of them? I'm definately not out of my depth....maybe just too close to the bone for your liking.





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10 Sep 2009 8:54 PM by Chimps Star rating. 117 posts Send private message

 

Tish

 

Dont be flattered Deary as anything worth reading took only a few minutes.(less in fact)

Why I am involving myself with this I dont know. Please if you want me to reply then stop changing your postings ,theres a dear.

The advice which you now have praised Maria for is ideal for Plan B.

Do you have any contributions. This is called thinking outside the box. Somehow I feel thats not up your street.





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10 Sep 2009 8:57 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Oh! Am I irritating you ? GREAT!!





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10 Sep 2009 8:59 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

From the first time you posted as Chimps you did not fool me. Nice try but it didn't work.





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