Is It Time For Plan B

As I said anything worth reading only took a few minutes. Nothing changed here then.Nope .Not irritating me just embarrassing yourself. Think someone has been around the forums too long.

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Ooooooooooh! Just like the old days BEFORE JUSTIN BANNED YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a thought "Chimps" you wrote:
 

. HOWEVER I HAVE  3 YEARS INTEREST ONLY AND SOMEONE WITH A 4 YEAR CONTRACT  IN THE AREA. THE FAMILY LOVE IT.

Has nobody told you that it is unwise to give anyone more than an 11 month contract?  squatters rights etc.  You may never see the inside of your apartment again!

There are many things to be done depending on how the finantial/economic situation developer in the comiong months.

First thing to bear in mind is that this is going to be a buyers market for many years ahead. And with that no-pressure by sellers and running the show

If you are pursuing cancellation ( action that can also be called: "restore action" as it put balance in the contract after an abusive contrat") You have got several  finantial assets:

-A potential credit against a developer for the refund of x plus legal interests.

- Buying rights on the property in between ( the developer cannot sell to anyone else till the contract is effectively cancelled and your money refunded).

- A better position within the creditor´s meeting ( if that ever happened)

So... it is not just a matter of contract cancellation at whatever cost, it is a matter of re-establishment. Many of the clauses of many of the contracts I have seen duting the last 3 years and a half are corrosively abusive. Repugnant.

I am enlisting some of the games you can play with the above mentioned assets at hand ( but I am not a finances expert.... so please, make your conmtributions! ):

- You can negotiate a great price reduction with the developer along the judicial proceeding and complete on the property at a much reduced price and with much reduced interest rates

- You can sell your buying rights to someone else and withdraw  the claim,  negotiate with both developer and new buyer on the payment of the judicial costs ( it seems German and Norwegian have already some money to look for some sun).

It is all a matter of some fluctuants, not rigid factors such as:

. Evolution of the market

. Flexibility of developer

but the possibilities are there ( together with many other ones, I am sure)

that.... together with the awesome sensation of being back in control of the situation or at least of a great deal of it. What do you think?

Could we all together transform the current situation in a win-win scheme?

Please send your ideas and have a great weekend.

Maria

Hi Maria . A very positive post. The only one that i cannot see working is this one, especially on illegal builds:

 You can sell your buying rights to someone else and withdraw  the claim,  negotiate with both developer and new buyer on the payment of the judicial costs .

I am currently in contact with several people in difficult situations. Your ideas are encouraging and worth a lot of thought.

Fine Post Maria

Any more plan B ideas we can play around with.

Natuarally as pointed out there are always going to be problems such as illegal builds.However may be exchange for a legal build may be an answer for a few. Just turn the tables and the hunted can in some cases become the hunter.

As we are saying. Its a buyers market. Try to avoid having to be a seller. Banks are starting to talk,FACT. Developers are having or will have to start talking.FACT . Why because they are going to have to.

Rent it out but try to retain the asset. As is said of course be aware of the laws regarding renting and ensure you have a very good rental agency and suggest a recommended lawyer to check things over.As in the U.K ensure you do your best regarding tenent selection as thats vital.Dont rent to anyone unless you do the homework first.

If you have bought at the top the its not good short term I did that once in the U.K £20,000 and I thought I had lost the lot when the market crashed . Sold it 5 years later for £73,000.

The asset in Spain is property. It may be a negative asset at the moment but in reality only if you have to sell. In the future hopefully it will be a positive asset and only if you sell.

U.K Stock market 4 months ago 3,400 Now  5,000 as an example If you had or decided to sell at the low then bingo you would have lost

Spain will come back. We can only guess when.Much of it will be confidence in the legal system.

Reality is that will not count for much when it hits the bottom (maybe now?) and people smell profit.Banks will start lending

What ever now is the time to consider a deal. If only I had the cash now.? Any good mortage brokers that can get me 90% loan to value ,Interest only for 5 years ? Any good agents to find me that deal ? Solicitor.Well pass for a moment on that one.

Maria thanks for those details and I'm sure that this might work for some, but please bear in mind that this would never work for those clients who would be left with a substandard apartment/development complex far away from the marketing literature, or for those who wish to gain justice against developers continuing malpractices (non provision of BG's or illegal BG's).

How else will the system change except by immense pressure (from all quarters, professionals included) on those who perpetrate, abuse and rely upon a legal and court system, which is in dire need of review. The ultimate solution in these situations should not require a client to compromise in any way or form, but to address the problem at source, to make errant legal professionals and developers truly accountable, to provide a court system that has enforceable realistic timescales. I trust that you would not suggest a shift in practice, “playing them at their own games”, when considering the above scenarios, and thus avoid some very unpleasant realities that need addressing in this whole sorry saga.

My concern is that all this will achieve is to encourage those who have abused the system in the first place to continue with their malpractices and provide them with a "get out clause".

Are not the offers I am suggesting also a way to submitt developers and contracts to fair agreements?

There are different solutions to different cases to different circumnstances.... it is just a matter of looking to the particular case. Do not you think so?

You can sell your buying rights to someone else and withdraw  the claim,  negotiate with both developer and new buyer on the payment of the judicial costs .

The point made by Maria and highlighted by Tish is a sound one.

A number of buyers who were part of a Court Action to cancel their contracts decided to negotiate a very large discount from the Developer as they were warned by the Lawyer that they could go bankrupt at any time! The developer agreed to allow the contract holders Time to sell on their purchase contracts at a large discount. At the time this comprmise deal gave the buyer the opportunity to recover at least part of their deposit monies!

Not a perfect solution but it gave some Desperate Buyers an alternative to possibly losing all of their Deposits.

Further to your very good post Ads, if someone tries to "offload" their illegal build on to some other poor soul then IMO, they are no better than the original perpetrators. As you say, the system will never be cleansed if this goes on. I just don;t see how you could sell on your" problem"...not at least if you have an ounce of decency! Attack the poison at its base.

Hi

Pressure must never be taken off the fight for justice and in no way is anyone saying that.

No way should anyone offload illegal builds on some unsuspecting poor souls.

Illegal builds wont in most cases always be illegal. Thats where the investor moves in maybe.Sell the purchase contract at an agreed discount.

The idea and reality is that you put the problem back into play. Nothing is selling no one is buying so maybe time to deal.

It may be damage limitations, a way to end even or possibly in profit.

Thought.   You have a problem in Spain/Property+ legal system.  No you and Spain have that problem. They wont play to the rules then use their rules. 

The idea with Plan B is that its group of very experienced members of a forum. Put forward ideas and thoughts on various options.  If an option helps just one person then job done.

Nothing stops attacking the poison but maybe the its time for the snake to bite back

Banks. Keys or renegotiate loan.? They dont want the property.They can threaten this and that but it both your problem as with a legal system like they have they to know what mess they could end up with  with the massive legal fees.

They know to that like the purchaser they have everything to lose Or not as is the case.

Dear All,

Chimps said he was happy with his Spanish purchase, but he cannot be that happy if he is renting it out long term at a subsidised rate.

Is he renting long term because the holiday rentals have evaporated like the purchasers?

Or is it because he has changed his mind about living in Spain?

If lots of prospective purchasers are cautious and renting first, then there must be a rental market and possibly a growing one, though even renters are subject to the exchange rate and may not be offering much in euros.

Techno is pleased with himself having bought two properties, one to live in and one to rent out long term, so renting is working for him, as long as he has euro employment.

Is Chimps renting to residential worker clients with all their problems for a holiday complex?

How many years of misery will there be for the community mixing workers with holidaymakers?

What happens when jobs are lost?

If "thinking outside the box" is producing a mixed market is that acceptable?

Is this "buy to let" in Spain?

More questions I am afraid.

Regards

Norman

Miket- May I ask what reasons lay behind those buyers who were part of the court action to cancel their contracts in the first place? Had there been breach of contract on the developer's part?

You made valid points Norman. I wonder if Chimps will answer this time.

Ads,

Our Group Action was based on a Breach of Contract Claim, Delays, Quality etc. Had we been given bank Guarantees by our Developer we would have claimed against the Bank!

Dear All,

thank you Chimps, so basically you are making the best of things until the market improves.

which of course is all that can be done, but only if you can afford it, with subsidy monies available.

it seems that you have a 60% mortgage on a property that can only achieve a 50% rental and if there are no resale possibilities for the next three years a capital value of zero.

I guess it is not the best investment you have ever made?

I suppose the quiet family holiday maker may well be content holidaying on a residential urbanisation as long as the 6am workers are also quiet and don't keep the infernal balcony dogs close by.

the attraction in living on a holiday complex is difficult to comprehend and the rent would be exorbitant unless the owners were in difficulty and following "plan B".

it would indeed be a mixed market and not one to tempt me I am afraid.

I am intrigued to know what makes these urbanisations such that anyone would "fall in love with them". from what I have seen they seem to be much like council estates here but with pools instead of swings for the kids, what really makes yours different?

I personally have not yet given up on Spain, if I get my deposit back I may be looking for the original holiday home somewhere though it might be wise just to rent at 50% and save complications.

Anyway, thanks again for the information, I am sure that it helps everyone with a choice, though I don't believe that many do in fact have a choice and the finance to subsidise foreign renters.

Regards

Norman

Hi All,

Why has nobody congratulated ADS on such a great article on 11th September, rather than bickering about who gets the best rent?.

We all need to work together to change the way Spain treats the very people who have made the country what it is today,,,,,,,,without the English pound over the last 30 years it would still be like Bulgaria ( no offence please, just have vision of people on donkeys )........

We all need to make a stand against the corruption.

Thanks

Tony

tonypullicino

Talk about corruption!!.......a ruling  from a judge should be made within 20 days of the court case i'm told. On Monday it will 5 MONTHS since our case against a corrupt developer who is constantly in court for wrong doing, and now faces a jail sentence for the same.

We still haven't even had a ruling from the judge!!, despite a very clear case of corruption. When we sued the developer about 17 months ago, they were still in business, so we could have got our deposit back had the courts acted in a reasonable time. All we have now is our name on a creditor list for 7 years fighting for justice.

While the system fails people like this, what chance plan A to plan Z ????. It's little more than a farce and just wrong viewed from any angle. Until the Spanish themselves demand change I doubt the powers that be will take much notice of anyone. they never have in the past, and the result is their current property crisis.