Spotify and Enya

"(The transfer of interests, ie deposits, plots etc. on properties within a development is not disposing of assets). "
So what if there is a charge against it, say by a Bank?
Could you then become liable as debts can go with the property?

"The administrators main objective is to pay off the creditors."
Agreed, but when they have reported, otherwise, they could be selling what they want now and perhaps making the situation where the company could not be allowed to trade as assets had been disposed of.
Are you saying that they could be selling land, properties, part constructed properties, as we debate?
Sorry, they cannot until they report on their findings.
HELP, lawyers please, correct me if I am wrong.
Are there new guidlines which Administrators now work to, which allows them to dispose of assets prior to all facts (devts and assets) known?

You say "(The transfer of interests, ie deposits, plots etc. on properties within a development is not disposing of assets). "
So what would be the outcome if there was to be an investor who was interested in the entire development, only to find that numerous properties, maybe the golf development or hotel, had been "transferred", during the period of administration, that could result in the writing down of the best possible value of the development.




This message was last edited by alm on 6/18/2008.

Hi Alm

I will do me best to answer those points, i have some experience with administration in the UK and have gathered some info about this in Spain.  The administration we are talking about is called something like concurso.....its a voluntary administration which asks a panel of joint experts to look into affairs, requested by the company and the aim is to secure the creditors and the company.

The experts are from banking, law and business and are able to make decisions about the way forward for the company.  They have power to make projections and even some decisions about the realisation of money and payment of money.  I doubt if that means they can sell assets off at will.

Disposal off assets being sold off in the way you describe would be something taking place by the company, which may force someone to force them into administration to protect their credit, which would be very different.  That kind of activity would be seen shortly before a company goes bust, in my experience.

If it helps to understand the changing of plots, houses and deposits, look on it as not selling property, more exchanging property already sold or developed, within the asset database.  It may even improve the whole worth of the asset by doing it.

Hope that helps

Brian

Hi All.. Just a word of warning to anyone who is offered a transfer if that becomes possible.
Prior to the administration I read on another forum that A client was offered a transfer from SADM to Playa Golf. 
But even with the discount San Jose were offering because of all the delays etc. the client discovered that they
would be able to purchase a similar property second hand on the complex at a far cheaper rate.
San Jose were obviously over-valuing there properties considerably.
Worth keeping an eye on.
Maurice

Regarding a developer over-valuing there properties considerably, this goes on everywhere and for various reasons.
Be it to raise funse or increase profits.
Just as many developers, even in UK, will not allow you to advertise a resale, until such time as the entire development is sold. Just to protect their interests. 

Hi Thanks

To be honest i am not able to make any objective or informed decision about transfering myself either at the moment, i dont see the merit of it from here.

Some people have different circs and will have a good reason im sure.  I take your point about the values of property though, i would prefer to have my money and re-negotiate rather than take a chance with a property or a site i didnt even want in the first place.

Thanks Maurice

Hi Briando,
I have been reading the thread from work and thought that as we are all in the same boat and waiting to find out what the administration process brings that I would add a little to the thread. It is a very stressfull time for us all and even though some of us have differing view points and ways of coping with the situation we are all here at the mercy of high finance.
Those of us who are working with the aim of wanting our properties are pragmatic and trying to make the best of a bad situation. We donot begrudge those who wish to pursue their money from doing so nor do we expect them to deride our wish to fight for our homes.

It has become very intense on the forum and it is stiffling open exchanges of information and ideas. I hope that we can reach a stage where we accept the differing view points and respect all SADM purchasers no matter what their prefered out come is.

I wish you all good luck and the utmost success in what ever out come you feel is best for you.
Me.....I want my House
Tony R17 18

Thanks Tony

I hope you may agree the exchange of information on this thread has been balanced, open, honest and useful to the contributors.

Dear Brian , 
             This has been an excellent strand and yes well ballanced. I did like your explanation of what the leagal route is about being slightly different than over here with the concourso part. and the linking of the administrators role in this process.
Brianmags

Regarding the costs of resale, I can confirm that the actual resale price is far less than being quoted upon transfer or purchase in many areas around here. Bare with me on this next bit, a friend of mine in the UK has considered an exchange to Playa Golf however another friend of our's, their neighbour (stick with me) is selling an identical property for neigh on 40k less than what they are being asked to transfer for, making an immediate loss, but only if seen as an offload investment property.....and guess what, fully furnished as well !!!!!

The industry is on its knees and this week alone, we have seen 8 immobilaria's in this area close business and our friends at 'Jungle Drums' a local free mag, have had 3 regular advertising contributors pull out. Which says one thing to me, you may get more than you originally planned if you dont want your house.

tongue in cheek, some comments sent over to us (Pilar / Javier  you know its in jest) 
non investors                                                    - I Don't  Invest Or Trust In Santa ana  - I.D.I.O.T.S
alternative forum                                              - Santaanadelmonte.NOT
Constructor                                                        - San 'No-way'
Man with a lisp                                                   -'Azucena (have you seen a) property built around here
Feeling foolish about your investment          - Jumill-iated
those that thought local government  bribery was at hand (or solicitor charges), probably written on a Casa 'blanca-cheque'
ALM                                                                     -Actually Like the Man, after all, and as Auntie Linda (and fellow neighbour) says, he forewarned us months ago and many of us chose to follow our hearts and not out heads, so i can say i'm getting to like the taste myself of 'humble-pie'.


Anyone want to add without being to personal please do so.

Darren

Hi folk, in terms of the re-sale values of white lilly's or in our case the Jazmin's.  If anyone is out visiting the Playa area in the next few weeks, could you give us an up-date on the current market values at ther moment.  We checked these in mid May and they were around the 158,000eu to 165.  Has anything changed?  

We would be most grateful

martin and sally

Hiya Martin & Sally

The property being sold that I was mentioning is an Azucena which is fully furnished and the asking price is €150,000 and negotiable, so I reckon €145,000 is nearer the mark. The whole area, not just PG is inundated with "Se Vende" boards with very few takers it appears, which means if those sellers want a quick sale, you can pick up a bargain if you're prepared to search around and not buy on impulse.  If you cross reference the costs of both the Jasmin and Azucena, it should give a fair indication of the resale value of the Jasmin at the moment.

Again, three of the businesses who we do work for are now offering a whole host of 're-possession' properties at ridiculous prices, some as much as 40% off current market valuation. Honestly, it's getting so bad people are literally going into their Banks and throwing their keys on the table and walking out

so it's definately a buyers market out here at the moment

Darren

Darren is correct,

We could pick up a resale property on Playa Golf,  lose our deposit and still be better off by about 20k than transferring through SJ at their prices.  There is one property (Azucena) we know of going for €129k

Added to this, if you are transferring make sure you don't incurr any unpaid community fees.  Because while SJ are in administration, they won't be paying community fees for the properties they still own.  Community fees are normally shared by the owners.  So either the current owners will have to up thier contributions or they are passed on to incoming residents.  Just something else to note.

Regards,

Steve

Thanks Steve .  We have too larger deposit to loose so.. 146eur doesnt seem too high possibly.

Any more info an we'd be grateful

martin and sally

lol, Steve is correct also !!

Behind us is an urbanisation of san Jose's and they have just changed the locking systems on the entrances because community fees have not been met. bang goes my lounging around the swimming pool. It actually gets worse than that. if properties stand empty, the construction company are liable to meet the Community costs for that proportion of the development. Now I dont know if this has happened yet wit San Jose but.....another developer who has had worse difficulties than SJ and gone to the wall have left a massive bill (30k+). Now the 50% of residence are left with a no win situation, either they stump up for the missing 50% to keep services running, or all utilities and services are suspended. 

Some interesting info though. i was in orihuela today finalising our E106 State  Health Compliancy and stumbled across an 'active' building site, and the constructor, yep San Jose Inversiones!!!!! When I say active, people and machinery in motion !

As an aside, something to make those retiring laugh a little, if you still plan on retiring out here regardless of what has happened with this purchase, I understand that as part of your state pension, and providing you comply with the age limit......the UK Government still pay you your 'winter fuel allowance'. Thank goodness for that because it's a really nippy 38c at the moment out here at the moment, weekend will be mid 40's and we expect the winter months to go down to at least 15c...brrrrrr. beauocracy gone crazy if you ask me !!!

regards
Darren

Darren,

Are you sure it was San Jose workers on the 'active building site' and not the Bailiffs moving stuff out. 


Steve.

Hi all

This was on a seperate thread from Darren.....which is of major interest.......Thanks


We have heard through today some information that all should be aware of if you anticipate being on the creditors list. Below is an extract of an email conversation i have had with representatives of San Jose regarding the claim process. i would suggest you contact your solicitors immediately to comply unless otherwise instructed.

"I believe the Court has already sent out to all creditors the letter. All clients that receive a letter this is confirmation that they are on the list of creditors. What clients must do once they receive the letter is get in contact with their legal representative and provide the Court with proof of payments made. As this is what they request on the letter. They also state to what address they have to send such documentation.

We originally thought that the letter would state the amount that clients have paid and that if they agreed with the amount they would not have to do anything, but as the letter doesn't state any amounts, if the client want to be 100% of the amount, they will need legal representation to do this on their behalf as the court will not be able to help those that do not speak English.

So if any clients ask you, please explain the above."

Any more info I'll post ok

Darren