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Hi all
I'm getting pretty pee'd off now, reading all the various threads that have now turned into "getting the upper-hand" arguments.
People slagging each other off for this and that !!
I thought a forum was for open discussion on issues that have common ground.........not to criticise each other because he said this....and she said that
All the purchasers, at the various sites that are in financial difficulties, are very rightly, highly concerned about their/our future, and rather than continue to have a go at each other, we should all be wanting the same thing.......either our houses or our money back.
Whether or not we get either, is is the hands of those who are playing gods ,( Judge/Administrators/SJ ) ,just now !!
My message here is simple:-
Can we have some form of unity here, and yes, open debate.........without the personal attacks, of which is doing no one any good, whatsoever !!
IWMH or IWMMB.
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Baz & Sue R10 - 36
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Baz
While you're at it could you please turn some of my bottled water into red wine?
Seriously whilst I echo your sentiments it will never happen after watching theses forums for three years now they have always been the same. You just have to seperate the wheat from the chaffe.
Cheers
Dave
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Hi Barry
When you say we should all be wanting the same thing.....either our houses or our money back.....isnt that two things, (with the word either being in there).
Ive been saying for ages and ages, you dont get a cbhoice, as far as im concerned if the builder carries on, everyone has the same opportunity as they did before, if they are out of contract they should be entitled to money back or if they want a house then carry on and get a new contract.
The arguments seem to come from either one group or the other trying to get the upper hand.
Thats my concern anyway........if there is a tendancy to give the builder a chance to just build at the expense of refunding on defaults....surely thats wrong, isnt it Barry?.
I think so anyway.......
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Best wishes, Brian
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Hi All,
There is no upper hand. There is choice and as many times as those of us who want our houses have said that we respect any ones right to wish to try to get their money back that sentiment is not reciprocated.
Barry is right that we should all work together as we are all in the same boat, except perhaps for those who are not SADM purchasser.
Lets all try to get on and not take out any frustration, anger or fear on other purchasers.
All the best to you all
Tony R17 18
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You see
When i read thing like .'those of us who have said this respect others', gives the impression that you want to talk as a group all the time Tony.....can you not just pass an opinion or make a comment without the..... we did, we want, we will....bits all the time.
This is when it makes me feel like finding out exactly how many and to what extent you do actualy represent people. You belong to a secret society on SARC, and you may even have a trouser leg rolled up as i speak......please leave it out sometimes will ya...it starts to invade every post that begins..
Brian
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Best wishes, Brian
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But often, a person feels confident when they can claim to represent others.
It is the first thing many realise when they first start in business.
As an employee, they could demand payment due to their employers and feel quite superior, when they are speaking for themselves and their business, it is often a different matter.
Security in numbers is the term.
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Hmmmmmm
Well all i know is i would like there to be at least one thread where it can be an individual post and response without havin a gang mentality creeping in or something being thrown at me as though its on behalf of the rest of the world.
Thats all i was meaning really....nothing too deep
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Best wishes, Brian
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Hi Everyone,
we (meaning everybody) have to listen to each others side of the argument and respect their views it may differ from mine or somebody else and if we all take time and stock of the situation that we all are in then things would be better so lets stop the bitch bitting and slagging off of each other just because you dont agree with their view point. lets all try an get along and start delivering real information again.
this does not stop people giving construct comments / arguments
briamags
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Thats great, at last we have approval to state an opinion, despite it not being supported by many.
Mine is tha San Jose Inversiones will go to the wall.
If not in its entirety, I don't believe they will secure funding to carry on major developments, if for no other reason, that contractors and suppliers are often reluctant to business with a company that has a recent poor track record for payment. Of which there must be many.
One has to also take into account the massive increase in materials and energy this year alone (steel 25%), so assuming their costings were on a 30% margine 3 or 4 years ago, how could they build-out at the prices agreed at that time and perhaps not finish for another 2,3 or 4 years.
I suppose the question for those who really want their house is, would you be prepared to agree to an increase in cost of say 30%, to get your house. With a company who have not always been truthful with you and have already ended up in the position they are in.
The current situation may be blamed on the financial market and drop in sales. But, the bottom line is mis-management.
If the Administrators allowed the company to continue, would you be happy with those directors and mangers being given a second chance to manage your money, which you have already paid them?
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I agree I also think SJ will go to the wall. I don't see any other way out as The Spanish government have said they will not assist any of the companies like UK government Northern Rock scenario and who can blame them as most of the companies are at fault in many ways for their own fate and have acted outwith the law . I don't think they will be able to re finance in the current climate when much bigger concerns are finding it impossible to. I thought a takeover bid on at least some of the sites may have been the answer but there is little chance of that now . I don't see them realising any capitol from selling assets in the current climate and feel the figure put on assets is paper figures only and not realistically what they could raise .We must also remember that the Admin have a huge responsibility in all of this and will be very unlikely to recommend continuation , if it is not sound , viable and sustainable . Alas I don't think it is .l really don't see any way out for them or us. It makes all our discussions about what SJ will or will not do a little futile . What can they do ? I think SJ have acted very badly in all of this and would not give them another penny under circumstance's also think that when all the facts are known there will most probably be criminal proceedings as well not that it will help any of us or lesson the misery of losing our dreams. I would just like the judge to see us all as consumers not creditors . Most of us were not in this to make money just to buy a home holiday or otherwise. We are not commercial enterprises just honest consumers . So what are our rights as consumers in Spanish law.
This message was last edited by julie anne on 7/21/2008.
This message was last edited by julie anne on 7/21/2008.This message was last edited by julie anne on 7/21/2008.
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Hi Julie Anne
we have put some info on our web site about that there is 2 or 3 pdf documents which you are welcome to download and read at leisure but basically we have rights but the problem is that we as ordinary creditors are 4 th in line for payout. there is the consumper protection laws but if they don't have the money or enough return on their assets then we have very little hope of getting funds unless we become privaliged creditors. but that all has to await judges decision.
The best hope for all would be its continuation (dont shoot me not plugging) as then we would hopefully have an asset that in a couple of years maybe sooner be able to sell on when we come out of the credit crunch. I realy cant say which way it is going to go I hope to god they get funding or I am out 40K. this is they whole problem with this mess.
I can't see banks honouring their BGs as it would probley amount to more than they require to complete phase 1 and the villas. the Banks will always cover their Backsides .
anyone got any other senarios where we all get what we want in the end if they dont get funds then I want my money back i have said this often enough.
brianmags
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Brianmags
I have read all the stuff on your site to inform myself I was really just thinking out loud after reading Maria's post today on the general forum .I just feel things are looking pretty crap now what ever you want .I don't think we are going to get a good outcome at all with the way things are now in Spain. I really don't want a holiday home anywhere in Spain in fact I have no wish to even visit Spain again . The dream for me has become too tainted. I used to love Spain and all things Spanish I have been learning the language for many years . I just cant get enthusiastic about it anymore for me the dream is over . As for getting my money back I think deep down I have already written the money off that way I wont be to disappointed later on when it becomes fact.
I am supposed to be going to the North of Mallorca in August as I have been doing for over 30 years and for the first time in my life I don't even want to go .I just hope they hurry all this up so as I can forget about it and get on with my normally very happy life. I am so angry at SJ and we all know how destructive harbouring feelings of anger can be. I just want it all to be over I am usually a fighter and don't let injustices go very easily but in this case I don't think there is any point SJ have got us all ways we don't stand a chance whatever we want.
Good luck one and all I think we are giong to need it.
This message was last edited by julie anne on 7/21/2008.
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Hi Julie Anna ,
thanks for the reply and yes I believe we are all in same boat what everwe want and I realy do love Jumilla its a beutifull area with some seasonal changes as well that was what we liked and the wines are of a superb quality much underated. on a personal note I realy don't have any connections or secret deals with SJ. I am just like the rest of us a purchaser/creditor just trying to get something positive out of this mess but not just for me but for everyone. I know its hard to believe but there are still some of us who have ulteristic attitudes to certain things and I can't just sit by with out trying to do something if I fail I will have least tried. I suppose thats because when you work in critical care you don't just give up untill you at least have tried to do something thats just the way we are. sometimes you win sometimes you don't but at least you feel better for trying.
good luck to us all and I wish we all get what we want whether thats your money back or your house lets try and keep positive until the judge has made his decision
regards brianmags
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One other thing .Just incase there is anyone out there still beating themselves up about not getting a Bank Guarentee dont bother I did all my research before I gave over any money and went to great lengths to get one and to check it was legal. I neednt have bothered they seem to mean nothing to the banks concerned .These banks should not have issued them without ensuring SJ were securing the deposits wIth them in a secure account .Why did the banks issue them. the whole thing is crooked from start to finish. Good honest people stand no chance at all if dealing with people who are crooked but sanctioned by the officials and banks of Spain So dont beat youself up over any of this .We really had no way of protecting ourselves from all this. JA.
FIN ofcourse I will go to Mallorca I have great friends there and my family is looking forward to the break . I dont blame the Spanish people just SJ and perhaps later the Admin . I hope I will have cause to thank the judge we will see ! 
This message was last edited by julie anne on 7/21/2008.This message was last edited by julie anne on 7/21/2008.
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Hi Julie Anne,
I know this is a bad time but you might be lucky because of that BG yet you have at least got that right and why did our solicitors allow us to sign contracts without BGs that is clearly their responcibility to protect us as clients did they no all they cared about was the money they would be getting and half that up front. And when we need then to act for us in this concursal what did they do they inflated their rates to screw us even more. No they are as much to blame as SJ Maybe more so. Why are they asking for so much to represent us when it should only cost anout 1200 euros or so not 6 or 10% of what we put down as deposit. if I loose my money I will try and get the solicitors to cough up maybe we should all do that what say you all I know there are some good ones out there but most of them haven't been involved in these purchases. We trusted our agents and the solicitors they recomended as most of us didn't have the time to search for one of our own
brianmags
end of rant.
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Brianmags I do agree gosh I dont know what my buds on the other forum are going to think of me today .I have agreed with you a few times today. There is a long list of people we could go after if we have the energy and money Lawyer ,agents many of them sold on developments they new were not yet legal or had been stopped by the courts ,banks and then criminal action against the directors of SJ the skys the limit however I dont think it would be worth the stress levels . Some lawyers already have these options infact I know of one who thinks the criminal action for dammages and asociated losses is the preffered route .Now wont that be interesting. JA This message was last edited by julie anne on 7/21/2008.
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