The August 2009 EGM

Hi Irene,

From the 44 proposed rules there are only four or five legally acceptable. The rest is illegal.

If people vote for this set of rules at the EGM they will be personally bound by them but nobody else. No future owners, no absent owners or people who object to this set. If you give your proxy be aware that you could end up being bound by the complete set while others can do what they want until a proper document is passed.

Max

After having read the first issue of the “Rules of regime” and the incoming comments on EOS I see very little of respectful and constructive comments and suggestions from the nighbours.

Most comments are presented in negative wording with very little, if any positive suggestions of improvement.  

In the document I´m missing any wording on compensation to our board. Work could be volontary with some financial compensation for expenses.

Wilander, I support your comments.

Given the language barriers and the difffering legal systems, it would definitely benefit the whole community if those who are competent to help the committee do so and in a positive and supportive way. No amount of carping is going solve the disquiet over the proposed rules, the majority of which are based on common sense and basic civil behaviour.

There is already evidence of point scoring leading to the next  EGM - let's not allow this EGM to degenerate into the fiasco which became of the last EGM.

Hi i just to needed to point out when i said i don't like these rules most of the rules are fine to me  it was just that we are not allow to stop  none paying in the pool that part was illegal to put in and it would not be passed and the committee had to change this.bye Irene

Dear All

The new revision is ready.

The full committee has been working very hard to update the first draft which was far from complete.

Thank you all for your input because these rules are not the rules of the committee but rules from the neighbours.

This to make life at Don Juan pleasant with respect to eachother.

In earlier comments it was stated that these rules would be illegal.

These rules are internal rules where the owners together decide on. Most of them are based on social behaviour and when offending these rules anyone can notify the one who breaks the rule and ask for a solution. As respectfull neighbours we hope that the offender listen to the comments and work together to find a solution.

Next to the internal rules there is the spanish law. We have decided to copy some of these into the document to have the full picture for everybody what is allowed and what not. But I have to make clear that the law is always leading goes above the internal rules.

Therefore we clarified that into the introduction of the last version.

Ofcourse the last document will give discussions because we cannot fullfil everybodies wishes 100%

But we as a community board looked at the rules with 5 persons individually with common sense and discussed with eachother to come up with the latest version.

Maybe for some not 100% perfect but we can always make changes and create new version.

What I do know that we need to have a set of rules as soon as possible to start with otherwise there is no regulation at all till the next AGM.

Therefore its in everyones interest to come to the meeting or give your proxy vote on what you agree on.

I was notified there is an email going round of worrying neighbours.

Its sad that the board has to receive it from neighbours that worry about the worried neighbours.

I  really disagree attempts to split the community into 2 parts because working together is the only solution for a win win situation.
 

For more information and questions you can always ask one of the board members or speak with the administrator.

Best regards,

Rene

Hi Rene,

" I was notified there is an email going round of worrying neighbours.

Its sad that the board has to receive it from neighbours that worry about the worried neighbours."

I'm sure I send the e-mail to you and David and even got a response from you. Nothing secret about it.

I and some others however don't get the circular e-mails from the committee. When I asked about it, I was just refused. I hope this new draft will be published on EOS so that people have a chance to contribute to it. I can't reliable comment on the rest of your post without knowing the exact contents of this new draft although we discussed it yesterday. 

My statement that it will only bound the neighbours that vote for it is still true and can't be helped. After you posted the new draft I will comment in more detail.

Max

 By now I realize that some neighbours on Davids preferred list got a new e-mail with the updated draft of rules. We, as many others, are not on that list as we voted 'wrongly' in the last meeting.

Could the committee please publish the English and Spanish version on this forum so that we all can prepare for the upcoming meeting.  After all we want to be one community and not be eparated by personal favourisms or language barriers.

Max

Have you ever thought of taking up golf Max,  I here there are many good courses in your area.

 Thanks to David I finally got hold of a Spanish version of the rules version 2.0 draft. There certainly are a few improvements, but unfortunately these don't change the fundamental flaw.

The committee doesn't post on EOS so this is my personal opinion and not an "official" post. Max has raised some legal issues with regard to the draft rules. I spent 2 hours with him and understand his concerns. Subsequently I have been in touch with his advisor\ community law "expert" as well as our own advisors.

The central issue is the difference between stututes and rules. We are proposing rules which are enforceable in law. Max says we are trying to establish statutes (which we are pretending are rules) which require unanimoty rather than a simple majority.

The legal arguements are to much to post. So let us be clear we don't have valid statutes and althougfh rules have less impact we can still go to the town hall and prosecute someone who breaks the rules.

Sadly, thanks to Max, the community lawyer, will be at the meeting at the community's expense and will explain this in detail.

Irene I understand why you are confused but I hope you are capable of understanding the presentations made at the meeting and will cast your votes accordingly 

What's this about the community lawyer? Did the community (as a whole) engage this person's services - if not, I do not see why I should pay for his attendance to look after some specific interests/interest groups.

May someone would care to explain to me what  I should pay for this lawyer .

David i have a clear understanding of the rules and the Law from a lawyer i will not break the rules or the law bye Irene

We have spent 3 weeks at Don Juan this visit and have watched people come and go and we have used more of the facllities that we would normally. Our time spent has been wonderful and it is still a great place to live or visit and we need to make sure it stays that way. It has been quieter this year as alot of apartments seem to be unoccupied but it has to be remembered that when the economies all over the world pick up then Don Juan like other areas will start to get back the tourism it has lost and we need to be prepared so what is wrong with making sure we have rules/regulations/laws/statutes or whatever you want to call them put in place now. It has already been too long so we need to get these resolved as quickly as possible.

Community - Body of people having common rights, privilages or interests or living in the same place under the same laws and regulations................ ( can I just ask why does this not apply to any new future owners ? ) If they are expected to pay community fees then the rules would be issued to them which would need to be adhered to as what is being implied is that years from now when properties have changed hands no-one on the site will have to obey any rules atall ???? That cannot be right surely. Do we really want Don Juan turning into a shanty town ?

I have spent time at the pools and whilst I agree that some of the behaviour needs to be controlled  - (which the proposed rules should cover) -  generally people attend the pools to relax, play,cool off, socialise etc and allowances need to be made for this but also the attendees need to be made aware to show respect and consideration to others whilst there ( cleaning up after themselves etc ). If we do not have a detailed list of what is and is not allowed, which can be left in apartments or posted in communal areas, then what else can be expected but a free for all. At least if there is something it is a starting point to ensure that unacceptable behaviour is dealt with and it will give others something to point out if necessary. There does have to be a certain amount of consideration for the people who live closest to these areas but by the same token they need to understand that it is to be expected - people want to enjoy themselves in this area and if peace and quiet was what they wanted then why live by a communal pool ? By the way they do not appear to be in a bad state of repair and whilst certain improvements need to be made when community funds allow close ups of specific bits of the pool makes it look worse than it really is. By the way we all have our cross to bear we live by the bins that are emptied every night at 2 am !

There have been a couple of instances of really loud music and partying and again this is totally acceptable as long as everyone knows what the rules/regulations/laws allow for this sort of activity. If no-one is aware of what is right then how do they know they are doing wrong ? At least give everyone the chance to behave in a socially acceptable way using the agreed and voted on rules that the majority of owners/ residents wish to see put in place. We had an example last night of totally unacceptable noise levels by renters which was resolved by banging on their door to shut them up. Now, do they know that they should not have been that inconsiderate ? At least if there was something obvious written down we have a chance to deal with it. Pet owners seem to be taking more responsibility for their animals and what they do which is great to see but again it is important for the whole community that owners are aware of what is acceptable for the health/ safety and pleasure of everyone. - what is wrong with that ?

There does seem to be young children wandering around at times unaccompanied and not only by the pool - My worry about that is certain areas of Don Juan are not entirely safe and what would happen in the case of an accident and also have we all forgot about Madeleine McCann unsavoury and dangerous people are everywhere and her parents thought she was safe. We do not have a gated community so anyone can come and go as they please

Whether all the proposals satisfy everyone or not why is the committee still being subjected to negativity towards trying to make a better place for us and protect our overall enjoyment and investments. We thought this had all been resolved months ago at the previous EGM when various accusations and arguments were flying about then which were proved to be incorrect and thrown out. Please lets get down to what is really important and again not get lost in the 'detail´. We can appreciate that things need to be agreed democratically but the rules proposed are no different to what is in place in other communities which begs the question what is all this negativity really about ? It would be better if people had concerns to express them of course but in a supportive way and suggest where areas of improvement could be made. Why the need to go to lawyers for everything confuses me  - what is that all about - It appears again that there is some hidden agenda which is potentially dividing the community - and why ? We are in a very fortunate position at Don Juan as the majority of people want it to be the best and we need to work together to make sure it is. We need to move on and start to make improvements instead of going over old ground all the time. It is all taking far too long.

I hope everyone has made sure that their vote will be counted and again we offer our full support to the committee as where things have been changed so far it has been for the better. Everywhere looks well kept and clean and as said before it is still a beautiful place to be and lets make sure it stays that way.  

Bravo , Mozza.

Also having just returned from DJI after 3.5 weeks, I must say that my own block looks a lot cleaner. Though it is rare,  I also visited 3 other blocks and  I can say that the most of the stairs we used were very clean in all three and does show that the current cleaners are doing the job properly.

The committee needs and deserves our support  - they are working on our behalf to make DJI a better community. 

 Unfortunately almost all of the residents decided on the last evening before the meeting to boycott it. They decided it was worthless to try and have a say in the actual proceedings based on the earlier experience. They know they would anyway be outvoted by people who use the apartment only for a few weeks and then give their proxy to the comittee.

It is offensive to suggest the owners who use their apartments for a few weeks give their proxies recklessly - we have the same interests, rights and obligations as resident owners.  What are the possible reasons/motives for these owners to behave in the way Max is asserting?

Yet again Max finds it hard (no, impossible) to accept a democratic majority vote and will doubt contnue with his crusade.

 You said 'recklessly'. Read closely: I didn't use that word. I'm all in favour of democracy that's why I pleaded hard with the residents to come to the meeting. I can't force them.

There is no crusade: I wanted proper rules and not stuff which would be thrown away in court and ignored by lots of people. 

Max.