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A seperate thread for this subject seems in order, so people who don't want to talk about it can ignore it.
The following letter has been send around by some concerned neighbours:
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APPEAL FOR EXTRAORDINARY MEETING
Dear Neighbours,
More than 100 days have passed since the election of the Board of the Community of Property Owners of Don Juan Phase I. Some neighbours have noticed with growing concern that none of the many problems we have at the urbanisation have been solved, and that new problems have arisen by decisions made out of personal and subjective motives. Therefore these owners are requesting that an extraordinary meeting will be called, covering the following subjects:
- 1. Cleaning Service (current situation/termination of the contract and clarification of point 4 section b of the Minutes from the General Meeting 8 november 2008)*
- 2. Security of the urbanisation
- 3. Mail
- 4. Entrance (road) to the complex
- 5. Telephone lines.
Best regards,
some concerned neighbours
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*
Point 4 section b of the minutes from AGM November 8 2008:
In order to be able to change or terminate the services that aren't satisfactory, we propose that contr cts with the different providers for the services we need (Maintenance, Cleaning, Security, Administration, etc..) are only signed for 3 months at a time and are renewed every 3 months, and possibly revised by the Community Board, based on earlier checks and of course keeping in consideration suggestions of the neighbours.
approved with 66 votes in favour, 12 against, 8 invalid and 1 vote abstained.
This message was last edited by vecinos_donjuan on 3/4/2009.
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The following letter is the explanation I have send to my contacts to let them know what is happening at Don Juan:
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Dear Neighbours,
A group concerned neighbours (including myself) at Don Juan are trying to collect enough signatures to initiate an extraordinary meeting of the community of owners, to get information from the board about some issues that are worrying them. To make things clear: nobody want to dismiss the current Community Board, we are calling for this meeting to get informed and want to voice our opinion on some issues and the priorities they have. I have attached the official letter that has been handed out to this e-mail.
To clarify the mentioned points:
1. Termination of the cleaning contract. The contract with the cleaning company has been terminated in a way that raises questions about the professional attitude of the Board in this matter. (I posted a more detailed analysis on the Don Juan forum at www.eyeonspain.com in the thread "community matters"). The neighbours want answers about the way this dismissal has been handled, and also the right to have a vote in the question whether the company does a satisfactory job.
2. Security. Since November 2008 there has not been any security guard at Don Juan Phase I, even while in the different general meetings the community always voted in favour of security and voted for a budget that included security. The fact that phase II and III have a guard does not satisfy us, because this guard has been strictly forbidden by our own Board of Community to enter the areas of Phase I.
3. Mailboxes. It is still not possible to receive mail at our Don Juan addresses. This has to do with some regulations from the national post company, that requires a change to the existing mailboxes. The fact that no mail can be received is not only inconvenient, but causes problems with official authorities.
4. The access road to Don Juan. We want more information about the progress of the negotiations with the town hall and the train company about this road. It is a big inconvenience that has a great impact on the (rental) value of our apartments. We acknowledge the fact that our own Board is just a bystander in this problem, but we want information about what they are doing to put more pressure on the parties involved.
5. Telephone line/internet. This point also influences the value and rentability of our apartments. We want to know what is being done to arrange this for Don Juan I.
As mentioned before, I endorse the calling for this meeting because these points have a big impact on the comfort of living here, the value of the apartments and (in case of point 1) the professional image of our community. Joining this request does not mean you disapprove of the current Community Board, it is a formal way to ask for information and for your voice to be heard. Even if you cannot attend the meeting, you can give your proxy-vote to someone else who will join and that way influence what is going on at our community.
If you support the request for an EGM (and I would strongly advise you to do so) you can send an e-mail either to me on this e-mail address, or to donjuan_vecinos@hotmail.com in which you state your name, your NIE (or passport number) and your apartment and declare that you endorse the request for the meeting. We only need 25% of the owners to agree for this meeting to be called.
If there are any more questions please do not hesitate to ask me, or any of the other neighbours at the email address mentioned above.
Best regards,
Saskia
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Hi all,
As some of you might recall from the 'Community matters' topic there was a meeting planned. It has been a productive and positive meeting between a few advocates of an EGM, two committee members (Ana and Javier) and our administrator Irma. I wasn't present but Saskia attended.The committee representatives were glad with the quiet and polite attitude and excused for the impolite behaviour of president Pepe last Saturday.
All agenda points for the proposed EGM have been discussed where the committee members informed the meeting of the current state of affairs. On several issues they were presented with counter proposals which could solve some of the open issues. The general consensus was that the information flow from the committee to the owners could be improved and that further discussions with all the owners could help in sorting out the major problems the community still suffers from. A perfect reason for an EGM.
Regarding the contract with the cleaning company, the most pressing issue at hand, the committee listened to the arguments and acknowledged that the arguments in the original letter were not all well considered. The EGM proponants argued that there is even a severe risk that, based on the argumentation in the original termination letter, the community could be sued. The committee members agreed to seriously reconsider the contract termination after consulting the other members. As timing is important in these matters we hope that a solution will be found and presented next Monday.
Max
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Cannot see the point to be honest.
Certainly none of the points are important enough for me to jump on a plane simply to witness factions having a go at each other.
It is OK requesting a meeting at the drop of a hat if you just need to take a trip round the corner.
I have put my faith in the elected committee and trust them to get on with the job.
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This is not a matter of two opposing factions. None of the many people who signed the appeal for the meeting so far want a divided community. At the meeting with the board-members yesterday we all agreed again that nobody benefits from battles, on the contrary that it is important we all work together to build this community.
As already explained earlier by David and René, and expanded on by Solgre and Max, the community has big financial problems at the moment. Some claims from Gestagua and Endesa-Sevillana are still under investigation, and there are still debtors (inlcuding Arrohabitatge). The comittee is working hard on this issues, but it takes time.
You can't spend money that you don't have, even my 5-year old daughter understands that, which means that choices have to be made how to spend the money we DO have. This asks for a revision of the budget that was approved at the last AGM, to prioritize the on-going problems, decide where to spend the money on that is available, and which issues have to wait until the cash-flow problems have been resolved. I have received many e-mails from neighbours who would like to have a vote in these decisions, and are perfectly willing to resign to the majority decision. (although my daughter thinks she will get a lot of votes for her proposal to spend the money on westports dolphins and pink princess-dresses for the gardeners)
Everybody understands that the comittee is doing a lot of work behind the screens, and that they want the best for the community. However, at the meeting yesterday it also became clear that the comittee wasn't aware of everybodies priorities and concerns, and also that neighbours can help with some ongoing issues by suggesting other possibilities. I received for instance a very interesting e-mail from a neighbour who has been talking to the Spanish ombudsman about our problems with the road, the mailboxes and the telephone lines, who would be willing to help put more pressure on ADIF, but needs to work together with our community board for that. The same goes for other issues: sometimes neighbours know how to save money or how to solve outstanding issues for less money. Last but not least do we want to avoid a costly legal battle by firing our cleaner in the middle of a contract without proper reasons.
As Max mentioned, the meeting yesterday took place in a very pleasant atmosphere, the emphasis was on understanding each other, and combining our efforts to find the best solutions for the community. When we paid for our drinks in the end there was some leftover money (because one of the neighbours insisted to pay for all of us) and we collectively decided to invest that in two lottery tickets, the possible winning of which will be put in the community fund. Who knows, this meeting might even have been more fruitful than we already think ;)
This message was last edited by Saskia on 3/5/2009.
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In my view there is no grounds for an EGM. Following the unseemly scenes in block 2 last Saturday a meeting was arranged between representatives of the activists who are trying to force a meeting and 2 members of the committee. At that meeting all of their questions were answered - indeed following that meeting some tried to withdraw the paper they had signed supporting the call for the meeting.
The call for the meeting was based on them having listened to Toni's version of the sequence of events that lead to the termination of the cleaning contract. It is a pity that they did not wait until they had met the committee before calling for this EGM. They are not to late to stop their activity.
In my view the committee was elected to do a job and we will be judged at the end of our term in office on the basis of what we have achieved. It is one thing to think there is room for improvement but to call an EGM without even having discussed the issues with us is very disappointing. Things have been and will continue to be difficult but there is every avenue of communication open to the community to make suggestions as outlined in the committee's report. Since I was elected I have had numerous requests for meetings or just information. I or any member of the committee remain willing to discuss people's concerns.
People have been asking me about proxies as clearly most people will not be in Don Juan at this time of year. If there is to be a meeting the proxies will be sent out with the notice calling the meeting
_______________________
David
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Hi David,
Just to set the record straight as you were not there and I was. There were no unseemly scenes in front of my block. Our president had a bit of a morning mood, but apart from that it was a friendly meeting with the administrator. The meeting Wednesday with the committee did certainly not result in anyone wanting to withdraw his vote. The attendants all stand behind their original request as do a lot of other people. The average age of the mixture of Spanish and English supporters of the request for an EGM will be around 55. Referring to respected home owners as 'activists' seems a bit silly.
Furthermore the whole thing had nothing to do with people blindly following Tonia. The letter firing her and the contracts involved have been widely circulated and they raise questions. There is a serious chance that the community will get into legal and financial trouble by this unprofessional action. The committee has now threatened to send the police to stop her cleaning. Lots of people don't like this approach.
Information is fine, but a lot of owners feel they want to discuss and influence the current course. An EGM is a perfect occasion to talk about the issues raised and make new decisions in light of the new developments.
Max
This message was last edited by max! on 3/6/2009.
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Hi Max,
I have no intention of getting into another spat with you but to answer a couple of your points. I wanted to distinguish between the small number of people who have been actively seeking support for this EGM and those who have simply signed the form you are circulating. I did not want to be desparaging so I used activists. If you prefer to known as "Worried Neighbours" or some other description that is fine by me.
With regard to the "meeting" at the front of your block. You are right I wasn't there. However I have ear witness accounts that the raised voices could be heard all over Don Juan. I again don't want an arguement but I do not believe that Saskia's account is a fair, or balanced record of what actually happened.
_______________________
David
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Due to more pressing matters at home I have not been able to keep up with EOS but tonight have read all posts since February with both interest and dismay.
We cannot believe that the decisions of a duly elected committee are being questioned to this extreme. If a company has not acted in the best interests of our community and not performed to the contractual agreement, irrespective of whether a certain timescale has or has not taken place, then the contract should be terminated and we should all support that decision as it will have been made with the best interests of our community in mind, and by representatives that we have voted for to act on our behalf for the good of all !
We agree with Rene that it is far better to employ companies that do not have any personal interest in Don Juan and can be judged on their ability and and commitment. Professional companies will always act in the best interests of their customers as if not they will find one day they have no business atall. The responsibility that our committe has is huge and we need them to be able to concentrate on the really serious issues that face this community and not be subjected to what we see as a complete over reaction to an obviously justifiable termination of a contract. Why all this concern for this one incompetant individual ?
This present committee knew exactly what was and is happening in our community and still willingly volunteered their services to ensure we all get the community we desire. They should be applauded and supported for their efforts and we fully appreciate everything being done on our behalf. If only in the early days the rules and regulations had been agreed upon and been put in place earlier then alot of the disagreements that are still being aired now could have been dealt with. As it is we are where we are and the previous commitee has served and is no more and the new committee should be allowed to operate unencumbered without the questionable objections that are being raised.
The world at large at the moment is not a great place but Don Juan is and should be and if we can all get back to what is important it will be. We are certainly looking forward to spending more time there in the not so distant future.
We just wish to thank any committe member -( we have not had the pleasure of meeting the others yet )-who are prepared to spare their time for our benefit and we will support them. We also know that Rene and David will always act fairly. I personally wish I could spend more time myself assisting in any way but at present it is not an option.
Keep up the good work
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Why The Board acts as a dictatorship? I have a right as a neighbor to hear me. The Board decides and makes decisions arbitrarily, we send a letter to the resolutions, but there are issues that must be consulted with neighbors. This is a democracy, the Board may think one thing and that the neighbors may think otherwise are living. Neighbors have a right to be heard.
This way of proceeding of the Board I have not ever seen, I want a reunion as a neighbor. And if many neighbors support this request, the Board has to accept it. However, the Board tries to avoid such a reunion, send email, with messages in this forum, what they fear? Why will not you listen to the neighbors? This is not a dictatorship, and there are things that are not doing well, and the board must escchar can not be denied. We are in a democracy
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I agree, we are in a democracy and that is why we democratically elected the committee to act on our behalf in the making of decisions for the benefit of the community.
Let them get on with it to the best of their ability (which as far as I can see is acceptable so far if not exceptional).
If we don't like it then we can democratically elect someone else next time round. Personally speaking if I am not happy with the conduct of the members (which I am) and I think I can do a better job then I can put myself up for election but until then I trust the committee to act on my behalf.
I can imagine that the job is a thankless task and at least Max knows what problems are involved being a former member. The poor chap and his family seemed to be hounded from all directions. If this happens to the current members and they decide that they have had enough, will anyone be prepared to take their place?
We DO have a right to question their actions and by all means enter into discussion with them and ask for/offer guidance but let us understand that whoever the members are they are doing a difficult unpaid job for the benefit of us all.
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I like my neighbors right to seek a reunion with the Board, if many neighbors want to meet with the Board are entitled to apply. If you believe that decisions taken by the board does not match with the neighbors, we are entitled to be heard. Can not wait until November, because we are in March and there are decisions taken that have not enjoyed the view of neighbors. If the board is supposed to represent us, then they have to hear what the neighbors say, is logical. What are you afraid? Do you have something to hide? Why are they avoiding hold a reunion in conjunction with the neighbors? I do not want to present myself as president, but as a neighbor I have a say, and say together with all neighbors. To insist that the Board is concerned? Why is it reacting to meet all the neighbors?
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Why this obsession with meeting face to face in order to bring your concerns to the committee? If the concerns are the ones that are listed on previous posts then has this not already been done? Will looking the committee in the eye make the concerns any greater or encourage the committee to take them any more seriously? Or is this simply an excuse to vociferously voice displeasure? What do you think we (and yes that is WE) can achieve in a meeting room that we cannot achieve with the current dialogue?
Also why should I be "afraid" of something or have something to hide? This is a simply a development community so please let's avoid any paranoia. I am afraid of nothing because I am not a committee member and neither do I have a tendency towards militancy so that probably puts me on the fence on this occassion (which was always my main area of concern!). I am simply a community member who does not wish to waste my time and money flying over to Spain simply because a few people want to vent their displeasure which has already been done on this site. I have attended all meetings over the last couple of years so I do not think that I can be accused of apathy and neither am I afraid to voice my opinion.
You refer to "your neighbours" please let me remind you that I am one of your neighbours so we are on the same side here with the same aims. Let us not forget that we ALL want the problems resolved but let us not over react and turn this into a monumental issue.
Yes, the items raised are of concern to us all but No they are not of concern enough to me to motivate me to come to Spain thinking that my presence will make a difference (unless of course you know something that I do not that has not been aired on this site). The committee are now aware of the problems and I trust them to work to solve those problems.
In conclusion, convince me that I need to be there and I will be there!
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Dear sir,
Dear sir,
The board has given their written explanations, but what the board has heard from the neighbors? NO. Several irregularities being committed in the community several months ago and the neighbors who are living here we are watching, and I do not think this is the way of making it public because it is a forum. What is not normal is that it has been asked to speak with the Board to clarify this and refuses to do so, and indicate here that will do so only if they are compelled by law. Want to clarify some points, and all residents will be of interest to them and others that do not, you are not oblige anyone to come. Why trust you blindly on the Board? Neighbors who live here, as I said, we know there are things you are doing wrong and all the neighbors have a right to know, and there are issues that can not wait for July or November because some are urgent and the consequences of decisions taken today could lead to serious problems in the future. You have the choice not to go to Spain and I understand it, but there is no problem with other neighbors who do we have it. And we are already quite vecinos.Lo is it unreasonable that these neighbors have to collect signatures in the mail donjuan_vecinos at hotmail com able to clarify these matters with the Board. I do not understand this dictatorial attitude, it's just a meeting with the neighbors, my birthplace is said that when someone hides something nobody wants to face. And it is quite suspicious that the Board is refusing to see the points that you have requested.
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OK Brettd You have my interest.
You say that there are other issues that will be brought up at the meeting that have not been made public. In that case there may be a reason to attend. I know only what I read on here.
Please do not suggest however that I am blindly following anyone. I take my lead from the elected committee rather than individuals who post behind a pseudonym and apparently will not mention in public (understandably if the topic is sensitive) what the real reason for an EGM is.
I am over at Easter and if there has not been a meeting before that time then no doubt I will find out more, if indeed there is more to find out.
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Because the environment is in the forum, I tried to find out why what I have read all the messages in this forum since February and I have several conclusions:
1. The board has adopted a series of decisions including the termination of the cleaning contract and Board argues its case. From what I have read, there are many neighbors who disagree, and the cleaning company have you listened? In my humble opinion, I believe that we must listen to both sides and not abuse the board of its power to take decisions, which many neighbors from what I have read do not agree
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2. As I read the Board has decided to reduce costs, but only insisted that I have seen in two parts: the safe and clean. And the rest of expenses such as maintenance, administration, whose monthly payments are very high and whose services could also be questioned and are not questioned.
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3. Because the Board is engaged in sending messages to emails right now all the neighbors when the neighbors are asking for a reunion. It would be more sensible to do the reunion, not only send messages that bring the views of the Board.
4. I have read several crosses accusations. I do not know what is happening with this Board. Our community is not very old, just had a board before, but do not recall any such problems. If it is true that a neighbor may not agree, but I think he listened and all major decisions such as changes in consulting contracts to neighbors. But this Board is taking some personal issues and is insulting and slandering people who are neighbors. I think, from my point of view, that some Board members have personal interests and their decisions are not for the good of the community but by exercising their power
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5. I see a bad environment, I hear insults, police, lawsuits, slander, etc. I think the neighbors have the right to know what is happening. And everyone speaks and is heard worldwide. In my other apartment, where we must take measures such as suing a neighbor for default, terminate contracts, and so I insist that major decisions affecting the future of the community, a reunion, listening to all points of view and decides, Why not here? Frankly I think it is an abuse of power, and you begin to suspect that there may be behind such decisions by what I have read the neighbors do not agree.
6. And finally, every month I pay my share of the community and I do not want me to "represent" do not take into account my opinion. I think they have been uploaded to the power head and this can have serious consequences for the community at the end we will have to pay all, so my question is. Well from what I read, I begin to question their arguments on certain decisions, something is happening in the decisions of the Board and I have the right to know all the neighbors and especially those who do not live here, and listen to all parts and form an opinion of the truth, because so far only been heard by the Board, and its course of action is insulting, slandering, not telling the truth and using the neighbors. DO NOT WANT THAT THE DECISIONS OF THE BOARD TO ALL OUR harm.
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