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Max
I am not suprised that someone had this removed ( I assure you it was'nt me) However it is time that someone stood up to all this rude behaviour and I applaud them. It is becoming an outright war zone. I can remember when we used to enjoy the conversations and information we gained from each other. What happened to the respect and politeness to one and other? It is time now to leave all the debates etc for the EGM so that these discussions can be private and not on display for all the world to view.
I hope you are enjoying your visit from your family, and the lovely weather out there.
Happy Easter
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Janmet
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Hi Janmet,
I have no problem at all with removing offending posts, but the accusations and insunations from a few other posters should have been removed as well. I don't think Twisk posts exceeded others insults.
Did you read the posts by some others? These were insulting on a personal level where this debate should be about factual issues and the best future of Don Juan. RG still moanes about some bins and a lawsuit he voted for himself. Jenx has insulted me on several occasions on this forum. Dema, whoever he is, repeats the same insults.
If we want to have a proper forum we need to get rid of all impollteness and get back to serious discussions about the future of Don Juan. I have alway tried to adhere to the principal that you can only post what you you would be willing to tell someone in person. Censoring people who are not native English doesn't help this community. If you were as critical of the posts of some others I would completely agree, but selectivily critisizing people because they are are either not native English or oppose statememts from the committee is not something I suppport.
Max
And thanks for the friendly words. I don't want this community divided just like I know you don't want. This message was last edited by max! on 4/14/2009.
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Max, I don't think I have insulted you in the sense you are protraying. Yes, I have been very blunt with you on many occasions, largely out of exasperation.
Below is an extract about 'bare knuckle fight' ;
No gloves are worn on the cobbles and commonly the fight continues until one side calls ‘best’ (gives in) or is simply unconscious.
I don't see how the comment is insulting - it is a fight and you have claimed your EGM.
May be we are back to the language differences again!
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Hello everybody,
I've been away a few days, I hope that the whole world has gone a good holiday.
From what I read, the "influence" the board has come to the forum. My I have been insulted, I have been threatened and slandered me, and the administrator of the forum has done nothing. I just hope we can give our opinions freely, and that the board let the people say.
This really is incredible, I tell my friends what is happening here and nobody can believe it. MEETING IS JUST ONE OF NEIGHBORS, is to discuss issues of importance to the community, but the board has taken a personal war and are acting as such, they send letters, emails, talking to neighbors to ask vote.
This is unprecedented, they honestly have a lot of fear because I do not know why, either because they fear losing the "power" or not want the people discover something. No sense the action of the board.
I hope the board does not clean to this view, it is my opinion and the other neighbors, neighbors are not rivals, and we want the best for the community, and we have the right to be respected by us think differently. Not in the inquisition. Let the neighbors think freely.
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Hi Max
I certainly do not agree with anyone saying what I am sure they are obviously aware are nasty comments. I have seen these comments fired from all sides, and I mean sides because you can see obviously who supports who. I am not taking sides but I am very keen to see the committee given the space to represent the community. I voted them in for this position so why should I not give them the oportunity to carry out these duties. I do not agree that I should be forced either way because that is what some people want, I may have views in favour of certain points but not others. If I have strong doubts I will PM these to the committe member or whoever it concerns.
I think its appalling the way people are behaving to each other, why did more people not put themselves forward to be a committee member at the AGM? Why wait till now and be so critical of people doing a job they themselves were not prepared to take on.
I understand that people must be hurt by these comments (unless they are totally thick skinned). Everyone talks about doing the best for the community but the people are the community and we need to build on relationships not destroy each other. Its become a war of words. I think now its time to build bridges and return to harmony. Everyone has opinions but not everyone wants to be bombarded with these, we are all adults and ultimately want the best for Don Juan, everyone and I mean everyone should try to look at ways to improve relationships.
Lets start to respect each other once again and think of ways to once again restore peace. 
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Janmet
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Hi Everyone
I have been reading the posts over the last few weeks and feel that we all need to take a step back and think about how this is affecting the community. I feel that we should drop all subjects that have been discussed recently as this is a public forum and our private business should not be up for public reading and that it should be privatey discussed at the EGM.
It would be nice to start trying to build positive relationships with all our neighbours. Hope you all had a Good easter holiday.
Jim and Joan
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In reference to Max's comments.
To put the record straight Max repeatedly states that I voted for the legal claim against the developer yet I have a copy of the proxy in front of me on which I have stated that I do not consent to any such action. So if what Max states is correct it means that who ever I gave the proxy to has misused the vote or Max's information is not correct.
My comments about the bins are just that they are comments which state the facts nothing more nothing less. You keep repeatedly moaning about the current committee's expenditure on improving DJ and yet that to Max is not an insult against the committee or community yet my comments on the bin according to Max represents an insult. Weird!
The fact that Twisk's posting have been ordered to be removed by someone independent of anyone in DJ just goes to prove the fact that such posts are not acceptable. I am sure that the moderators have probably looked through at least some of the thread to see what else is being posted so they can see the relativity of Twisk's post considered it unsuitable and removed it. If they thought the same of anyone else's post I am sure that would also have been removed. In any case why is Max getting so uptight about this surely only Twisk should be moaning. If Max thinks anyone else's post is not acceptable and he is not happy about this then he should feel free to report it.
Max really has way way too much time on his hands hence all this interfering and rubbish on EOS, if only he spent it more wisely! Very sad!
This message was last edited by RG on 4/14/2009.
This message was last edited by RG on 4/14/2009.
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RG, I thought there was a general consensus to let matters rest until the meeting. I thought everything worth saying has been said by now. The problem you have with the bins of december 2007 are a repeat loop. Everybody on EOS will after 1,5 year know that you don't like them.
One fact though: the vote for the court case against the developer was unanimous. I recall it vividly and it's also in the minutes.Your proxy holder is mentioned in the minutes as well so I would say ask him, not me (remember though that this is also an affair of more than a year ago). Your proxy holder did use one vote against hiring of security but that was on behalf of someone else. So you voted for the court case, the extra contribution and the security.
As long as there are no new developments of importance I agree with the other posters that we should just wait until the meeting. On a positive note I can mention that although this battle of words seems grim, the atmosphere at Don Juan is still very nice. There is a lot of friendly chit-chat and I still happily have drinks with opponents as well as supporters of the meeting. We just agree to disagree and enjoy life in Spain.
Max
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Max
RG has good reason to be agrieved about the court action against the developer. What was decided unanimously at the meeting was to have the Technical Archetect prepare the report. When this was done there should have been another community meeting to consider the report and agree what to do - Maximo actually promised that this would happen.
Instead you decided to proceed with court action without authorisation. If we loose the community will not only be liable to pay our lawyer's fees but also the developer's. This amount will make the potential claim by Toni look like small change. It is a pity your conversion to democracy didn't happen a lot sooner.
The point about the bins is simple. It was OK for you to spend money on bins which I actually have neighbours asking me to have removed because they are just used by lazy householders to deposit household rubish. It was also OK for you to terminate the maintenance contract without notice or compensation and employ a more expensive company without getting competitive prices based solely on the recommendation of Toni. But suddenly it's not OK for the new committee to do it's job unless they get your approval for every decision.
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David
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David, I can see your confusion because the english translation of the minutes from that meeting is a bit confusing, but the vote there was also to take the developer to court if they wouldn't respond to the technical report. The 11.000 euro as an extraordinary community fee was also approved at that meeting.
btw: You, Ana and Javier were also part of the comittee then, and all involved in the decision making that you are complaining about now.
maybe the people who want the bins removed can organise an EGM about it?
This message was last edited by Saskia on 4/15/2009.
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Saskia, you were looking after your daughter so may not have heard what was said. I was refering to what actually took place at the meeting and I am absolutely certain that the only commitment we were making was to the 11000€. No authorisation was asked for or given to commit the community to expensive court action.
As Max so often says Ana Javier and I were not "proper" committee members and the old committee did not work the way we do. I was not a party to the decision.
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David
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Sigh, the facts about the courtcase:
the minutes of that meeting can be found in the topic 'Official communications of the administrator'.
On the invitation for the meeting the agenda point was:
3. Study of the construction incidents report. Approval, if appropriate, of the lawsuit for incidents and defects in the construction. Approval of:
a) Hiring the expert report, approval of possible apportionments.
b) Appointing the lawyer. Approval of possible apportionments.
At the meeting itself it was decided to:
Considering all the existing problems, Mr. Rafael Moreno, lawyer, takes part and explains that it would be advisable to hire an expert to write a report with legal validity. Once it has been written, a copy will be sent to the developer and in case there is no reply in a sensible period, a legal claim will be made.
Those present approve the measure, considering that the expert report is a priority, since in the future the lack of solution for the damages in the complex can affect to all the neighbours.
...
They also state that the developer, which right now owns 34 houses in the complex, or any neighbour against this measure, has the right to vote against the legal claim and not to contribute to it.
....
It is also explained that the approximate cost between the expert report and the initial legal costs, for lawyer and attorneys, would rise to 11.000€ maximum. Those present approve unanimously the apportionment together with the legal claim and also to appoint Mr. Rafael Moreno Acaiña as lawyer of the Association
So the 11.000 covered the costs of the technical report, the lawyers work to prepare the court case and the court costs to file it. There was no need for intermediate meetings as this was all approved at the AGM. It was up to the committee to execute this and we did so in meetings with Ana, Javier and sometimes David attending. I wrote regular reports about these meetings on EOS for all to see.
In fact on the next EGM these minutes were approved by everyone AND the lawyer even reported about the progress in the courtcase. Nobody was surprised when they heard that it was already accepted by the court as that had alway been the intention.
If RG objected to this agendapoint then he should talk with David about it. This is just a private issue between them. I only give this explanation to avoid future confusion about what was actually decided.
Max
p.s. we did notify and warn the former maintenance company but this is all water under the bridge. I don't want to restart this nasty debate and certainly not about last years items. This message was last edited by max! on 4/15/2009.
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Max,
You are right that expenditure up to a maximum of 11000€ was approved. A further substantial fee payable to the lawyer if the case fails has been agreed by Hernan. I have asked but as yet not been able to find out what this fee is. This expenditure has not been approved by the community.
We can't turn back the clock and change what happened last year but it is important to remember what happened last year when you were Vice President as it shows how hypocritical your current position is.
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David
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You confuse me: you withdraw your statement of 15 Apr 2009 9:07 AM?
What was decided unanimously at the meeting was to have the Technical Archetect prepare the report. When this was done there should have been another community meeting to consider the report and agree what to do
Max
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No I don't "withdraw my statement". Only expenditure up to a maximum of 11000€ was authorised. Clearly there should have been approval by the community before more expenditure was committed to and it was not.
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David
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I'm sorry David, but you are contradicting yourself. Reread the minutes and the minutes of the next EGM and it was clear that the committee was instructed to:
- get a proper technical report
- Send this to Arrohabitatge demanding execution of works
- When this would fail go to court
- Hire a specific lawyer to handle this case.
All of this without requiring an extra meeting. The 11.000 Euros was explained in the meeting would cover the costs of all the above up and including the filing of our claim.
When we finally hired the lawyer we made a very specific agreement about the possible future costs. Everybody knows you can't 'buy' a complex courtcase for a fixed fee. This has been explained at length at that AGM: that it were only initial costs.
I reported about it on EOS:
"The second part of the meeting was in Gigs office and the main discussion point was our legal case against the promoter. The final report from the technical architect concerns a total amount is more than 1.8 Mlilion Euros. The first version apparently left out important parts and still missed most of the final figures.
We have had long discussions about our legal strategy, the costs we have to make in case we loose versus the chances of winning etc. We looked at it from every possible direction and came to a satisfying outcome.
I can’t reveal what was discussed and what was decided as that could seriously weaken our legal position. At least the time spent on negotiations with our lawyer Rafael turned out be positive for the community that’s all I can say. There are still some things to be decided but for now that’s it."
If we lose the case completely we will have to pay an agreed amount, if we win we don't pay a thing and if we win but don't get the legal costs from the judge we will have to pay this out of the 1.8 million Euros.
There was no need to consult the general meeting about it as we were already instructed to hire him. The fees for attorneys are set by a regulation body so there is no shopping around. What we did was driving a hard bargain which the sollicor insists can't be made public for very good reasons. This decision was taken by Hernan, Ana, Javier, Tonia and me.
However this all has nothing to do with this topic, nor with your private conflict with RG.
Max
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Max, copying and pasting the same stuff repeatedly is pointless. What happened at the meeting was that the procedure was explained but authorisation was only given to spend up to a maximum of 11000€. It was clear that before a decision was made to commit the community to spend more further authorisation would be required. The community should have been consulted before that commitment was made. It wasn't.
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David
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David,
I stop this discussion as this is farce. You knew already in April 2008 that we would decide this. You did not object to it before or afterwards; you just could't attend that specific meeting. With you in the know and Ana, Javier voting for it there would still be a majority in the current committee.
You can't relive last year and you can certainly not rewrite it. You were there most of the time and I have always kept you informed when you couldn't attend. Like you wrote yourself: "
Weekly Meetings. The group Max refers to as “The Permanent Members” (I can assure you it is nothing like the United Nations!) are quite comfortable and know each other well. They meet in the Tiger garage which is weird but it seems to work. The residents on the committee all are prepared to give their time freely and all want the best for the community. They (including the Spanish members) are as frustrated as we are at the slow progress.
If you have now different views about all the items you voted for and Ana and Javier have these as well please go ahead and change things. Lets get back to 2009 and on-topic.
Max
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Max, what do you really want? What is your aim? Do you want to get rid of the present committee to take the helm yourself again in order to pursue your interests instead those of your neighbours?
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Dema, as one of our mystery guests on this forum you possibly missed some of the history. I was not available for re-election.
The discussion below was initiated by RG and followed up by David. I only tried to clarify what had transpired.
Max
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