Request for extraordinary meeting

Max, oh Max when are you going to wake up to the fact that you are no longer on the committee.  You are not a committee member, so why are you holding on to papers which are no longer yours to keep. Original documents, including contracts should be handed back to the committee for subsequent safe keeping by the administrator. What reasons have you got for holding onto property which is not yours?

You wrote about 'if we lose it (which I doubt that because of our legal reasons)'  by which  I presume you mean yourself, Hervas and Tonia because you have put your allegiance on this matter beyond doubt through your posts.

Your  wrote the 'we will put out the agenda' - since when did you assume the role of administrator?

I have no doubt you are no fool but anecdotal evidence suggests that you have identity issues of a legal complexion!

You have undermined the committee, ignore calls from neighbours (and friends) to step back and reflect and you seemed determined to sabotage every effort to unite the community.  Whoever was encouraging Hervas to take action against the committee can only be described as a traitor in our midst - I personally would cherish a fight but OUR committee is showing tremendous restraint and maturity as is expected of them over this storm in a teacup.

Now that you have your prize of an EGM,  we can look forward to being left in peace afterwards.

 Hi Jenx,

All the papers, bills and contracts are available to every neighbour. Most of them used to be published on our community website, but you can always visit the administrator to check bills etc. That's the essence of community law: the owners are the real bosses, the committee just acts as their representation.

In the next passage you cite a remark by Rene which I just quoted, it's not written by me. Ask him what he meant with it if you are suspicious.

The agenda is according to law determined by the EGM undersigners; not by the administrator. 

I will ignore your personal attacks; I don't understand them but I'm also not interested in these 'keyboard wars' Politeness is a virtue and even more so on an internet forum.

Max

Hello everybody,

Today we still do not know the date of meeting.

I am already tired of the board laugh at us.
I say to the board that they are not the owners of the communities are our REPRESENTATIVES. Then they have to represent the interests of neighbors.
Neighbors have said that they disagreed with decisions by personal interests that the board has adopted, the reasons are not real because the neighbors do not support it.
The neighbors requested a meeting to clarify matters, the board said that was not necessary. The neighbors have had to resort to legal means to compel the board has to convene a meeting, and now the board is trying to manipulate. Is manipulating not want to call when it is better for the neighbors, but when it is better for the board. Manipulated because, from what I read from René, trying to add new issues to be discussed at the meeting, and I say, you have not called voluntarily you are obligated to do so then you should respect the issues that neighbors have called in the order established. If you want an additional convening.
The thing about this board is to go wrong with them, you should go to trial, we must go the legal route because they refuse to listen to neighbors.

 I'm tired and I will say one thing, the board is responsible for is actions, and if  it continue down this path, myself personally denounces them for failing to defend the interests of the neighbors.

Please make the meeting with the issues that have been requested and the established order, to stop the handle, listen to the neighbors and respect their decisions, and stop thinking about all the neighbors are stupid because we are not.

And stop acting mixing their personal affairs to work in the community, they must be impartial.

I urge to the  neighbors to come to the meeting, and can not be delegated no vote to anybody until it is well informed of everything that happens, it will be very important matters that might make the neighbors have to pay more money. The board are manipulating things, so come to the meeting and know the true.

Carol,

We are working with 3 board members and the administrator on it

And yes it will be ready in 2 hours from now

I really regret your opinion its really not true

And yes we are glad to talk about all the topics requested and they will be in the agenda and handled in the meeting

Much of your writing is based on rumours and assumptions

And still we don't know if you really are a neighbour or a second ID of someone.

Again I gave you all the opportunity to meet and tell the real facts.

I hope that you will introduce yourself to me before the meeting so we can have an open conversation

Is this a deal?

Rene,

Why is the board doing this? dividing the community in two parts?  It doesn't have to be that way. Since day one we have asked for a meeting to have the voice of the neighbours heard, and from day one the board has refused to do so, except when forced by law. Lots of neighbours have signed this request (in fact, by now far more than the required 25%) and still the board is fighting it. Scrutinizing the signatures that have been given, changing the rules about the requirements. Refusing to accept the fact that the community wants this meeting and wants the right to vote.

WE - the neighbours- call this meeting because the board refused to do so. It is OUR meeting and therefore OUR agenda. Do you really want the community to divide even more in this battle of legal technicalities? I am confident we fulfilled all the legal requirements and if it would really come to a legal battle (which in my opinion would be very bad for the community) the jurisprudence would put us -the neighbours- in the right because everything in the horizontal law is aimed to one thing: the fact that the neighbours are the highest body in the community and are the ones who ultimately take all the decisions.

Boardmembers have repeatedly stated that this request for an EGM is a declaration of war, which in itself is a very strange reaction when the neighbours you are representing have some questions about community-affairs. We do not want to dismiss the board, nor do we want to put them on the stand for anything. We just want our vote heard on important issues, which is our legal right and in this way re-unite the community and put an end to rumours and gossip. The fact that the board keeps fighting this request on every possible angle is the thing that divides the community, not the simple request for democracy.

Dear Saskia,

We are not fighting.

Just doing our job as a community board

Even in earlier mails I said even if there is no 25% we will have the meeting anyway

What I am experiencing and feel is that I am getting very much pushed here and forced to come up with the real facts

I spend hours this week on this where I could have spend time to solve the real problems

About the agenda, the board can add topics too so therefore you have to wait for the approved agenda by the president.

I hope this will be settled and over soon

Dear René

Is there any protocol to speak with you because you act as if you are the Queen of England. You order me what I have to do. I have to present myself in front of you when you want as you want and because you want.

Can´t you understand that to have a different opinion is not to be the enemy number one. I´m simply a person that likes the things clear.

So I don´t understand why there are too many difficultes to have a meeting if there is nothing to hide.

The neighbors wanted a meeting with an agenda and I don´t understand why the board has to changed it. I insist if there are anything to hide?

To All,

The notice calling the meeting, which will be on 2nd May has now been sent by the administrator. I know there are some errors in the administrator's e-mail list. If you have not received it please let me have your correct e-mail address and I will forward it to you

Hi Rene

I have seen people are now comparing you to the Queen of England or maybe Franco. I think you are more Queen of England than Franco. :-)    Or maybe Carol12 has let slip her identity. I do recall last Summer seeing a woman with a Tiarra and 2 corgi dogs outside block 7 that were urinating in the bushes :-)

For peace's sake what is wrong with people here? Arrohabitatge must be laughing their backsides off at us!!

Max & Co should give it a rest they wanted an EGM they have now got it so what is their problem? Max is not the president or any part of the committee so he cannot set the agenda he can only ask for points to be placed on the EGM which the board has done but if they wish to put additional items on the EGM then that is their choice. Is Max & Co telling us that the committee should hold another EGM at more expense to the community to discuss matters which are not on 'his' agenda? Totally ridiculous!

The new cleaners have started working at DJ for a few days now and already you can see the difference in the cleaning which is off a much higher quality then what Toni / Hervas were providing which reinforces the view of the majority that the board were right to terminate this contract.

I have spoken to some of the people that have signed Max's request for an EGM and some are not fully aware of all the facts and that half of the things on the agenda are out the committee's control and have signed without having full knowledge of what they are signing for or the implications thereof.

You have to ask yourself why is Max & Co putting so much effort in this (to do what they are doing takes a tremendous amount of effort and time) i.e. to defend a contractor who only a few months ago when he was Vice President agreed that Toni should not carry on with the cleaning contract but now is fighting foot & mouth for her despite the fact that even if she did get reinstated he would not gain anything, unless of course she has agreed in this case to compensate him in some way otherwise what does he possibly have to gain?

Max's suggestion to anyone wishing to leave a proxy with him to sign a declaration effectively given up their rights is totally barmy. You should be able to state exactly how you wish to votes on all points on the agenda and if any point is not clear at the EGM and need further clarification then the proxy holder should 'save' that vote and get back to the proxy giver and explain the situation and then get a new vote which the proxy holder is then legally obliged to pass on to the administrator.  If anyone has to leave a proxy I would strongly urge you think hard! and if you really have to leave a proxy and you are one those 52 that signed the EGM request leave it with someone independent i.e. not the committee or Max & co.

Saskia's suggestion that the board is trying to divide the community is ridiculous it is only through their (Max Saskia Carol's (if she is a real person!) meddling in this matter that it has got out of hand and it is they who carving up the community not the board. If they hadn't interfered by now Toni would have concentrated on getting another job / contract and the board would have continued concentrating their efforts on problems which actually need solving at DJ and Max / Saskia instead spending all their time behind this could have used it more constructively to build up their business but there again maybe for them that is were the problem lies and hence all this nonsense. 

The sad thing of all this is that  the community is divided.

It is painful because we are neighbors and we should wish the good of the community. I think the meeting will serve as well, to speak out and expose all our views.
It really makes me grace to be so interested in me, I would not never have asked anyone who is (and that probably a member of the board write here with a diferents nicks ). I do not judge, everyone has their opinion. I am a real person, with work, family, and have no a  tiara jejeje, what happens is that I do not like that anybody impose me as it want. I express my opinion as you do. And you can not insult people  to express contempt for the opinion.
Frankly I think all this has gone to the hands of the board, which took decisions without listening to the neighbors and when the neighbors claim sought explanations they have been cornered and frightened, why? I do not know.

But I think that the meeting will be very important to calm the situation, all we ask is that frankly, that the neighbors talk, having that freedom, that there are very serious issues to discuss (because it can involve very significant costs). We also ask you to stop inventing things, the neighbors who signed read what they sign, then do not tell lies. Will hold a meeting and to stop defaming . From what I've read, more than 60 neighbors  want the meeting, many neighbors, they can not be underestimated and insulting because we are not fools.

Wow - the translator tool must be seriously good, Carol12. No one has attempted to gag you despite your ramblings - that is called 'free speech'.

RG,  love your bare knuckle fight - maybe you are closer to the raw nerve than you realise.
 

 Carol12 or whoever you are you keep going on about costly court cases etc. However as stated previously by Rene and others it is still to be seen if Hervas will go to court and even if they do from the information to hand the chances of them winning is not high and even if Hervas do win the actual payout will be much less then what you Max and Co are scaring people into believing and in the long term we will still be better off with the new cleaning contractors even if they charged exactly the same as Hervas as they are doing a far better job. But then again maybe for you Max & Co getting the best possible workmanship for the lowest possible cost is not important or wise business decision? For your benefit I have used a text translator and the Spanish version is below:

Carol12 o quienquiera que usted es usted mantiene pasar acerca del tribunal costoso embala etc. Sin embargo como indicado anteriormente por Rene y por otros son de todavía ser visto si Hervas irá a cortejar e incluso si ellos hagan de la información para entregar las oportunidades de ellos que ganancia no es alto e incluso si Hervas gane el pago verdadero será mucho menos entonces lo que usted Max y Co espantan a personas a creer y a largo plazo nosotros todavía seremos Mejor con los nuevos contratistas limpios incluso si ellos cargaran exactamente el mismo como Hervas como ellos hacen un trabajo mucho mejor. ¿Pero por otro parte quizá para usted Max & Co consiguiendo la mejor habilidad posible para el costo posible más bajo no es la decisión importante ni sabia del negocio?

RG, dices que ahora mismo el limpieza está mejor, pero muchos vecinos estan quejarsándose porque creén que la limpieza esta peor de anterior. Además, a muchos vecinos les gustan el idéa que una vecina limpia aqúi, porque tendría más corazón para nuestro comunidad y todos sus problemas. Lo único que estamos pedido nosotros es que los vecinos pueden tomar la última decisión. La verdad es que todos nosotros (como todo el mundo) queremos el mejor qualidad para el precio más bajo. Como dijó Carol12 varios veces, porqué solo centralizar a el contrato de limpieza, pero no revisar los contratos (muy caro) de p.e. el mantanemiento y administrador. ?Sabes quánto hemos pagado para los detectores del movimiento para los garajes? para ésta importe pudieramos pagar p.e. un vigilante unos meses y nadie tuviera que cambiar (subir) su seguro de hogar. Éso son cosas que importan quiza no a tí, pero a mucha gente y por eso estamos solicitamos ésta reunión.

(ps... sorry for the mistakes, blame my Spanish teacher. I couldn't find the upside down question mark on my keyboard)

If the erstwhile cleaner really had the community's interests at heart, she and her company would have put a stop to all the nonsense which has been going on for nearly six weeks. Reminds me of horses and stable doors..........

It is diffcult to fathom out your new found allegiance to Hervas because about 6 months ago you were in favour of firing her.

Let's not kid ourselves - it was about business but some fool introduced emotion into the mix.

Vaya, veo que se ha empezado a escribir en español. Voy a escribir este mensaje en español, sin que sirva de precedente, sobre todo para todos aquellos españoles que me consta que lo leen y tienen que ir traduciendo frase por frase con los traductores.

Voy a resumir todo este asunto porque hay vecinos que no saben lo que pasó:

Se está creando una batalla innecesaria, se está faltando el respeto e insultando, no creo que sean formas, pero lo más grave es que se está intentando desprestigiar a los vecinos.

Hay vecinos que están a favor y otros en contra de la actuación de la junta, es normal, no van a estar todo el mundo de acuerdo siempre. Pero lo importante es la comunicación, el problema que ha habido aquí es que la junta ha tomado “sus decisiones” sin contar con los vecinos.

Los vecinos se han molestado, porque mi opinión como la de otros tiene importancia, y esta comunidad es de todos no solo de los miembros de la junta. Por un lado existe esa molestia y por otro lado dichas decisiones de la junta han provocado que nos veamos inmersos en un asunto legal costoso para la comunidad.

¿Por qué la comunidad va a tener que ir a juicio? Porque ha incumplido un contrato, las causas en las que se basa el despido no son reales, los vecinos no están de acuerdo, y existen motivaciones personales de algún miembro de la junta para tomar dichas decisiones.

El problema surgió cuando algunos vecinos molestos, pedimos explicaciones, la junta no quiso dar explicaciones argumentando que sus decisiones eran oportunas y nada más. Los vecinos seguíamos pidiendo una reunión, y ellos rehusaron el tenerla. Al final los vecinos tuvimos que ir por la vía legal y así obligar a mantener dicha reunión.

Héteme aquí que entonces la junta al verse obligada y acorralada, realiza la reunión, pero claro al estar molesta cambia los puntos, añade nuevos asuntos, todo para limpiar su imagen. Y ahora está intentando desprestigiar a los vecinos que firmamos dicha solicitud: por un lado hacen público nuestros nombres en un lugar público (es totalmente ilegal), por otro lado dicen que somos tontos porque firmamos una solicitud y no sabemos que firmamos, por otro lado que hay firmas duplicadas, etc.

En resumen, a pesar de todas estas manipulaciones de la junta, se va a realizar la reunión, y ellos van a tener que dar explicaciones sobre muchos asuntos. Supongo que ya estarán realizando una campaña de búsqueda y captura de votos, para salvaguardar sus intereses.

Todo esto roza la paranoia, creo que el origen es que hay personas que al  “tener” algo de poder se le ha subido a la cabeza, y piensa que puede hacer lo que le venga en gana y que nadie va a pedir explicaciones. Cielos santos, es solo una comunidad, no estamos hablando de un ayuntamiento, de un gobierno, etc. Los vecinos lo único que han pedido es una reunión, ni que les estuviéramos pidiendo dinero, y ellos rehusan el tenerlo, ¿Qué ocultan? ¿Por qué ahora esta campaña de insultos y de desprestigio a los vecinos que lo hemos solicitado? . Mis motivos son claros, no me gustan las injusticias, no me gustan que me tomen el pelo, y sobre todo no me gusta que “mis representantes” abusen de su poder y mezclen sus sentimientos personales para actuar como les venga en gana, yo pago una cuota mensual bastante alta de comunidad y tengo derecho a saber que hacen con dicho dinero, y no quisiera tener que pagar más dinero por la ineptitud de algún miembro.

Es sólo una reunión para hablar no lo planteéis como una guerra.

This is all getting very silly!

If you wish to post in Spanish go to a Spanish speaking website.

Carol12

I assume your posting in Spanish is purely for the benefit of your Spanisn brethren, none of whom has thus far see it fit to rant like you.

If not, please put a sock in it - it is very tiresome because you have repeated the same old stuff over and again.

Remember to  put yourself forward for the next committee so that we can all see your professed democratic niceties in action.