Vandalism Garden 8

Jan,

Brilliant. Fair play to you all for taking the initiative and being big and brave enough to instigate the action. The shopkeeper is also to be commended because in a lot of places, the reprisals for that would have been having the windows put out. I'm sure we can all play our part at Condado in some small way.

During our last visit in July, I had to pull up a group of Norwegian kids in earshot of their parents from a few apartments along for using the communal grassed areas as a football pitch. This of course caused great embarrasment to my daughters but it would not be the first time I have had to put up with the 'Aw Dad, do you have to' plead. But there again, I think we are responsible Jardine owners willing to to things for the good of the community and pay respect to our neigbours regardless of their nationality, a view I know not all other contributors to this forum hold dear.

Regards,

I am dumbfounded at the reply the youth gave when he deliberately kicked over the light. 

We were in Condado for 2 weeks at the end of July beginning of August and whilst there we could see that there were some frustrations starting to appear.

A few points that I have noted:-

1.  We are also on a garden and when purchasing our plot we delibrately did not purchase directly facing the pool and instead choose to be 4 or 5 apartments up.  We knew at some stage rules regarding behaviour and pool times etc would be introduced but depending on residents respect levels, this could fall on deaf ears, so we decided to eliminate ourselves from that arena. 

Whilst we were there, there were a couple of nights when the pool was used after hours and although we were sat on our terrace the noise did not wake our children or disturb us, but had I been directly facing the pool I would have been fuming.  Had the noise level disturbed us then I would certainly of approached the culprits.  I do fully support those who this affects if the noise is very high, but I would have no issue with adults going for a midnight swim to cool down or do lengths as this would not disturb anyone (Just to be clear, neither I nor my family have done this).

2.  I agree that after a certain time there should be a curfew for children under a certain age to be around the resort unsupervised.  However I do not agree that children should have limitations to where they can and can't go.  My eldest son is 10 and regularly likes to play football with his friends or play on the computer (moshi monsters most of the time).  All 3 know that they are not permitted inside the gates of any pool, without either their father or me with them.  They always ask permission to go in the pool, where then we can attend with them.  My eldest son is permitted to swim alone on our garden only and only after asking if he can go and swim, as he is a strong swimmer.  My husband and I were keen to purchase a plot on Condado knowing that due to security, we would feel more confident allowing our children to explore the area without the need to be able to see them at a glance.  This does not mean that they can do what they like, they understand their boundaries and are very respectful to things and adults, although not angels, as no child is an angel.   They are very quick to come and report to us any bad behaviour that other children are displaying.  We regularly do "spot checks" to make sure that they are behaving.  My children are in bed my 10pm, when it appears gangs are forming and displayiing disrespectful behaviour, so lets not assume all children are acting in this way.  We have stopped our eldest son from playing with one child, as he was far too cocky for our liking but it would appear that his parents display similar characteristics with their questionnable behaviour. so it was pointless speaking to his parents.  In fact I believe that they have already fell out with a resident of their garden due to late bbq's and late night pool usage with extreme noise. 

3.  Regarding a comment relating to a green armband, I would strongly disagree with this being a solution and would suggest that at the gate security is tightened up and if a non renter/non resident wants access then they need to display a badge at all times and security to patrol and regularly spot check people who they do not recognise who are not displaying a badge.  I for one would be happy if security stopped me and asked me who I was, this would demonstrate more control over the complex.

As we all settle in and get to know our neighbours better, we will of course know those who break the rules, those who bend them and those who follow them rigidly.  When I see a child go to climb a fence I always tell them not to and they listen, although will usually attempt it another day and receive a sterner voice.  I think that if we see behavior that is just thoughtless then we can approach this ourselves.  But where the behaviour is blatant disrespectful even though the child knows right from wrong, these are the ones that are the exception and need to be named and shamed and reported immediately.

Regarding parties until 5am, if this was an exception then I would be inclined to let this one go, however if it was continuos, then I would need to approach the individuals concerned and depending on their responce would decide whether or not to report this to security and RPM. 

After speaking to one of our presidents though, if it is a resident displaying this unregard to the rules, they are extremely limited with what they can do other than charge them for damage.  However when its noise keeping residents awake then there is no damage to charge?

Most residents are very nice people who are respectful to their neighbours and I am sure that if they saw their "angel" behaving in an unacceptable matter I am sure that the matter will quickly be resolved.  Its those who are the exception that we ALL need to be aware of and fight it together as one.

Wow that was a long post, sorry about the length.

i've removed my post as the the thread has gone to 'hell in a hand cart' as it progressed and doesnt refelct any of my thoughts.

Hi Kev V, and others I have read your post and agree with your feelings and reports and owner to be I would like to ensure that these reports of reckless actions are taken seriously and something done.

You have mentioned that the green wrist bands "as now introduced on LT" you do not agree with, I understand this point, but I feel in the future you may well have to revisit your thoughts. Having staying on LT on and of for 2 years I have seen the problems arise and be resolved in different ways. With LT, locals were using the facilities and needed to be stopped. the gate security did improve but not enough. Hence the bands. If on Condada the Al Kasar is opened up to locals (as sugessted in other postings )then this could cause a problem for you to stop them using the site.

My suggestions are just suggestions to tackle the problems,as we could all talk and moan about the problems but not actually do anything about it.

I do not suggest anything too radical ( and we all have to be tollerant of some behaviour in a community) but who and when is someone going to do something?

Sorry to semi rant but, just saying what you see is a start but effective action will only come from someone taking this further.

Neil

Who said Al Kazar would be open to locals ? Mind you it's not exactly handy to Alhama de Murcia or Camposol for anyone just to wander in and out to 'use our facilitites', (and I'll bet the prices will put them off) . They would need transport and access for anyone in a vehicle should be contolled by gate security. As for armbands I'm sure it's not beyond anyone's wit to obtain something that is the same as any plastic or eleastic armband. Also there will be steady stream of renters coming and going that will Be unfamiliar to those in permanant residence so it will be really difficult to know if someone should or should not be there.

I think we all need to be vigilent around our own areas and if we are unhappy about either behaviour or right to be there we should use the security service we pay for.

As for mis-behaving kids an old fashioned 'clip round the ear 'should do the trick.

OK - I'll end up in jail - a word with the miscreants parents then (unless they look like something out of Shameless !)

The original plan was for the Foro/Al Kazar to be for residents only and the Oasis for public shoping etc.  However, PW seem to have realised that they can't support the town centres without outside cash coming in and have plastered big billboard signs around the region which say 'you don't have to live in a Polaris World Resort to Enjoy the Polaris Lifestyle' - or words, in Spanish, of that ilk.  In other words, come in and bring yer dosh with you - we need it!!!! 

 Does anybody know the direct number to the Condado De Alhama security guards, for when these situations arise?

 If we're employing security, why should we do all their work?

 If we know a number for them, we should easily be able to call them, when people are screaming and partying at the pool at 3am.

 If that's not possible, I really don't see why they're earning all of our hard earned money....... Geoff.

someone posted these numbers before

662389500 & 627937077

Thanks, I've just stored them on my mobile. You never know....

Cherrie

 Thanks Jeb...... Geoff.

The night in question relating to vandalism on Jardines 8 I stopped a young lad amongst a group whom i saw kicking down a light. When i asked him why did he do it  he responded by saying that it does not matter. I then informed him that we all (owners) have to pay to repair for any  damages . A security  guard appeared and we found out that the youngster was staying on JARDINES  7.

We have all invested in our own little plot of paradise and I do not find it acceptable that a bunch of murauding 12 year old's are able to upset that balance with a lacadasical attitude of "whatever".

I personally applaude those who tackle this probelm head-on and take the time to point out the errors of judgement to the  perpitartors of mini-mayhem.

Don't get me wrong, we have two kids ourselves and like nothing more than to to see them enjoying themselves, indeed we particularly like the Spanish culture where all activities are family centric and kids are allowed to play freely at night - what a great way to encourage independence and social interaction.

However, when certain bambinos mistake this new found freedom as a license to destroy property then I agree action is required.

The CDA (Child Detection Agency) Security should be involved, but if this fails then allow me to propose a suggestion :

Why not install a set of "Ye Olde Village Stocks" in each garden - carefully crafted in wood to match the pergolas, these would blend in perfectly, adding character as well as acting a a central focal point for an evenings entertainment to residents and a deterent to wayward youths.

Seriously though, let's nip this nonsense in the bud - it is simply not acceptable.

My friend returned from CDA yesterday and she had a similar experience with a young lad - also from Jardin 7.  He was leaning on a shrub and she asked him to stop it.  He told her 'it doesn't matter' and she replied that he would break it.  He wouldn't budge so she asked him again and walked off.  She came back a few minutes later and he was still at it so the schoolteacher in her took over and she gave him a good telling off - by which time I think the shrub was done for I'm afraid.  At least she tried and I think that's the key - we should speak up if/when we see this nonsense going on.

All,

There is a meeting between the level 2 presidents and the security company ( VIGILAT ) next Monday at which these type of incidents and the procedure for handling them will be discussed.   I'm sure the outcome will be posted to the forum as soon as available.

Phil

Having had two weeks in naranjos jardin7 at our fantastic new place I find myself wondering what we have let ourselves in for....meatheads on quadbikes on a golf course?????,parents who think its ok for their out of control kids to climb on roof tops, climb on lights,climb over fences,shout and ball in the pool until all hours and generally run around like a set of yobs who would be better placed out of every decent,respectful and curtious persons sight.I look forward to the day when someone who actually values the place and other decent folks company ,actually witnesses some damage or outright criminal act and see what response we are met with from the so called parents of these spoilt brats....

As for the previous message, some official line of dealing with this whole unacceptable level of behaviour would be a godsend in these early days..or it will be just like England...without the rain!!!

I think that the main problem with all this is that you will probably find that the people causing the damage odds on are not owners but people renting, lets be honest for owners who are advertising to rent apts, you don't know who is renting and they won't really care as they are only out for a couple of weeks and may never come back, so they will not be bothered what happens.

At the end of the day any damage must be repaired and if any person is caught then they (or Parents) must pay not all of us, if the person is renting then it must be the owner of the property, who can then claim of the renter or Insurance.

It is up to all of us to report such damage / vandalism to Security not the President. I also advise not to challenge anyone, If you see any misbehavior then note details as soon as possable to help you remember and give security a full detailed report and if safe take photos with Camera or Mobile phone but Do not put yourself at risk or in conflict, Security are paid to do this.

Presidents are not Policemen they can deal with other issues but not breaking of rules, Noise, Vandalism Dogs etc.

Level 2 Presidents meet Security on Monday and hopefully will set the Protocol to be followed in the future as soon as I have these details i will publish here.

Mick

Look this is a question of empowerment. Please don't throw your hand up and let the undersireables ruin our dreams which we have worked and indeed struggled so hard for.

Some release their miscreant childern on an unsuspecting community while they close their eyes and ears to what they get up to or what time time they return, out of sight out of mind. This is not acceptable. Such behaviour may be tolerated in the underbelly of society where they come from but it must not be tolerated here.

Also those who rent cannot guarantee as to the behaviour of their 'quests', but the point must be made and enforced and if necessary reinforced that such behaviour will not be tolerated here. The message must get out that Condado will not accept such behaviour and that consequences will result. If we don't do this now, from the outset then we will lose the freedom to walk in comfort from the bar or restaurant of an evening.

Security must be visable and foot patrols should be part of that system, but we also have a large part to play. It should be made known to renters via adds and to parents that misbehaviour carries a penalty. I'd rather lose the scum and enjoy a late night stroll than live in fear behind closed doors. 

Warn, name and shame, fine and if necessary procesute  those responsible.  Come on let us keep our streets safe and secure we cannot afford to lose this battle before the site has even been completed.

Personally I will challenge loutish behaviour or indeed report it to parents/renters. I will make every endeavour each time I'm out to keep Los Naranjos a no go area for trash.

We came back from CDA last night. I have to say that it was alot busier than on our last visit in November. As it was so warm at night I found myself sleeping in the lounge with the windows open and I couldnt believe how noisy it was at night!! Now dont get me wrong I can understand and have no problem with a certain amount of noise up to midnight but on one night there were kids in the pool till after 1.30am and on another a neighbour had visitors till after 3am, which would have been fine if they hadnt been cooking outside from 11.30pm to 1.00am and entertaining outside till 3am loudly !!

There were two lights broken in Jardin 7 while we were there and I was told that it was the grass cutters but now Im not so sure. I agree that something needs to be done now about this. We bought into CDA thinking that this was our bit of Spanish heaven and our escape from the tolls of normal life here. I certainly dont want to have to put up with it when we are over in CDA and really feel strongly that we shouldnt have too!!!!!

Hi all

Just in reply to some of the posts that mention fear of walking around the gardens, walking up to the bars etc at night.  we have also just returned back to Ireland after spending 7 weeks in CDA.  I was there part of the time on my own with  my 9 year old son and I have to say that at no time did I feel any fear or apprehension either being in the apartment on my own or in walking about late at  night/early morning - we have friends on Jardin 13 and spent many happy hours on their terrace at night.

We were there before the rules went up at the pool - and while I made sure that when other kids were in the pool that my son and his friends did not throw balls etc, when they were in the pool on their own I let them play with their lilo's etc.  After speaking to few families around the place with kids it was suggested and I think has been mentioned to some of the presidents that perhaps for some hours of the day - and in some pools, say Gardens 1, 3, 5 ,7 etc we could have a happy hour where kids are allowed to play with lilos, soft balls etc, and next week the opposite pools could have the happy hours.  It may be to hard to work this out but feel that as this is in part,  a holiday resort and as some people are trying to rent out apartments during this difficult financial time we need to try and accomodate everyone.

All the time I was there I never encountered or seen any gangs or hordes of teenagers hanging around (perhaps I was just lucky) .  There were a few parties going on but again we never heard anything late at night that would have disturbed us, also few times some people were in the pool late at night but security came along each time and they were asked to leave.  I did hear of a lady who lives on our garden asking youngsters who were in the pool to get out and she did get some verbal abuse from their parents which is totally unacceptable - think she called security after that.  Perhaps the three bed apts are more vunerable to noise as one bedroom in at the front, but as we have two bed apt both bedrooms are at the back so noise from pool, terraces etc is minimal.

Dont want to ramble on but feel I want to put my feelings across.  We had a great time for the whole 7 weeks, we love the place and think that in a few years time it will be a fab place with great facilities, and I do feel that there is a bit of a knee jerk reaction from some people regarding some (in my opinion anyway) minor misdemeanors which can be dealt with re presidents and security (who again I thought were doing a good job).

Sorry about rant but I love the place and cant wait to get back out there