Are we getting quality

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I think it was are we getting quality of build not quality of neighbours ?

Roy, is the build and finish up to the same standard as the original showhouse on Corvera which is the only relevent building in Spain to compare with. That's the one we were able to visit and inspect before we made our purchase. Roda,La Manga, Paralleja or Polaris etc are all irrelevent and should not be used in comparison.

roy ,

many thanks for your again unbiased answer to my question , that there was water damage due in your opinion to sub standard construction ,  i think that brings it back onto thread ....

Not ustandard build but what I would describe as attention to detail because for things like doors and windows we check alignment, locking, internal and external sealing, the sealed units,aligment and  if they are secured correctly into the lintel and surround

In the duplex Tilos the main window that had the problem was the big one in the hall which cannot be easily checked and perhaps sealed by the developer

The lack of the threshold step was a mistake made on what was to Corvera a new style of property compared to RODA, which they have addressed

The problem is that it is only really tested when you get the heavy rain so part of our standrad process was to check the propertues that we have previously inspected and water will always find the weakest point

On the drains we cejck the patio levels to make sure that they run to the drains, and that the drains are not visibly blocked but some problems came from obstructions further on in the pipes and the only way to find these would be a camera survey or,lots of rain

Sorry I cannt say that these propertues are built to a substandard level of quality

The only benchmark that I have is the showhouse that is a Duplex Tilo or the Olma Villa onsite and yes the properties are to the same standard and the show houses, if you look carefully, still have the same snagging defects as found in most properties

I have only inspected one tilo apartment and i must report that in my opinion the top floor has a serious design flaw.

the top floor and balcony are the same level, the cill of the patio doorframe and adjoining glazed panel cill and the cill of the window to the stairwell are all at floor level and provide the only seal between exterior and interior.

all frames should have been positioned on at least one course of brickwork above floor level to allow for an upstand on the balcony, a reasonable fall to the balcony away from all external walls could then have been formed.

this cannot be done with the existing design, the only option available is to rely on sealant, or forming some sort of flashing details to all frames if any future heavy storms come along the problem of water egress will occur. if this happens when the apartment is unoccupied the damage and mould will increase due to lack of fresh air.

it was aparent in the apartment that i inspected that the water level flowed above the cill line  of the frames and caused serious problems to the wall finishings, large areas to the walls with the finishing texture bubbling up, also the well talked about mdf skirting boards swelled and bowed with green mould on them.

anyone who has purchased a tilo penthouse apartment please look into this ovious problem and get it rectified before you complete.

t

What a very good post Perce and I agree absolutely with your observation and would like to addsome other comments based on my inspections

First this is not an issue with all Tilo penthouse apartments but mainly the Duplex Tilo properties where they have the larger roof terraces that run contnously on 2 sides of the lounge

I know that you will agree that the door design, with the cill, is the normal one but you are correct that you shouldn´t have to rely totally on the seal around the door to keep the water out. The other problems are the known one´s from higher door cills

The problem actually starts because of the levels of the terrace area and insufficent gradient to allow the water, even if high volume, to run into the drainage system, and I wondered if you put a level over the terrace and check the degree of the gradient and if you found any flat spots where water would collect

What they are having to do where this problem has been identified, and this is a lot of work, is lift the terraces and relay them to increase the gradien,t plus increase the drains by adding more drains centrally on the terrace

Did the inspector form Corvera suggset this to you or the client or did you request any solution

the problem is they cannot raise the levels of the balcony floors to form the relevent falls due to the position and fitting of the frames, the window frame would need to be raised, the patio door and ajoining glazed panel would also need to be reduced in height or raised if possible, all of which is quite a bit of work, one solution to maybe ease the amount of water egress would be to provide a canopy adjacent,and above  the affected areas. but this would only be a preventative measure and not a permanant solution.

I don´t agree that it is not possible to raise the levels of the patio to increase the fall to prevent the water ingress and what has to be reported first, on the snagging lits as a defect, is the the amount of fall to the drain is insufficent to allow the water to drain correctly

As when we found this issue at RODA and other sites the rectification is a big job involving lifting the whole terrace and re-laying  but as with most of these types of defects you can re`prt the problem and then check that it has been correctly rectified and of course make sure the list is an exhibit at The Notary completion

Again the canopy is a great idea, and has been suggested to resolve the problem of water ingress under the front doors of some Laurels, again penthouses,  but prevention rather than cure

Hello Roy,

Am I lead to believe, judging by yours and perce recent posts, that due to the recent heavy rainfall, defects are appearing in the builds?

If this is so are Calidona rectifying the issue?

M.

At any site rain is the snaggers friend because water has a tendancy of being able to find it´s own way into properties and the last rain was had via the Gota Fria, was exceptional

You will always have defects in builds and as previously explained these were mainly on the penthouse versions of the Laurel and Tilo penthouse with large ares of open outside space, including the areas outside the front doors

On the Mentas this will not be a problem as the entrances are fully enclosed and the dors are of a different design

Corvera know all about the issues and are addressing them and we are as normal monitoring the repairs which invove more than drying out and re-painting a property 

hi roy

as from the former posts it appears to be a building defect  on the penthouse apartments which is not good news when you are paying a premium for penthouse units .

would you be kind enough to elebarate on how calidona are rectifying if as suggested earlier it appears to be a design issue ? one would assume to rectify the problem would be a major task .

First of all as explained previously it is not all penthouses so the solution varies by type from building a threshold step, re-sealing around some doors and windows plus rectifiying any problems with the fall to the drains but again it is specific per property and not a general design fault

hi searay

i cannot comment on different design features to individual apartments because i have only inspected one two bed tilo penthouse apartment.

What i can say is the apartment i inspected in my opinion has design flaws which if not rectified properly, as roy suggested removing the adjacent patio floor and incorporating a decent fall away from the affected areas will always be a problem in any storm conditions.

Unless they can drop the level of the patio at some point it will be difficult to obtain enough fall due to the position of the patio and window cill, again only my opionion.

If it was my apartment i personally would ask for the design flaw to be rectified before i signed and payed any money over, at least then you something to barter with to get the remedial works rectified.

I cannot believe why the arcitects have incorporated such an obvious design flaw in a building, the one i veiwed was not fit for purpose, and if in the uk would not comply with part c of the building regs which is resistant to mousture.

My post is genuine and is only directed to those people who are buying a tilo apartment with the same design features as the one i inspected,  my post is not intended to scare or put people off from completing, i just feel that any untrained people buying should be aware of this issue.

Hi Perce/ Roy

Given that this problem seems to apply to penthouse apartments - in your professional opinion(s), is there any chance that this water ingress would damage properties on the first or ground floors given that the apartments may well stay empty for many months of the year (especially the wetter ones).

If this is the case then it opens up a minefield of headaches and potential legal problems.

Thanks in advance - Russ

So far I have seen 3 properties that have been damaged by water from a property above but nit as a result of water form leaking terraces

One from a burst pipe and efrom water that has come form the planters not being properly sealed and 1 forma a leaking washing machine and I I have rechecked a lot of properties, more tha 40 on various floors

I have also had one damaged by a leaking pipe in a wall and one where water got into the area under the property

russ

the water ingress would only affect the lower apaartments if the storms were over a prolonged period and left unattended, i think if it did travel to any lower levels it would lickley to be very minimul.

it would also depend on the provailing wind and if the top apartments were sheltered, there would be many factors to consider, every apartment due to its postion would vary in relationship to any heavy storms.

Thanks Roy, it sounds like more warnings should be given to owners about being careful with connections and how they use water.  However if a planter is leaking and causing problems, does this have implications in terms of being able to wash down patio areas or is this just simply not permissable?

The other thing that i simply can't get my head around is why the buildings pay no regard to Spanish law with respect to the use of solar energy to provide hot water.  Any suggestions? 

The last thing that I would want would be to complete and then be faced with legal enforcement.

Thanks as well Perse - can you shed any light on why these apartments seem to be built without having to meet the legal environmental standards for water heating?

Cheers - Russ

Could Roy explain what the solar panels are for on the Menta apartments .

This has no impact on washing down terraces as it is the wall where the planetr joins onto the property and again it is not common to all properties

There are so many people asking about the slar systems I have started a new thread but the legak aspect has already been querues and answered by Corvera and the Tilos and Laurels legally do not have to have solar water heating installed