Decided to deal.

Actually no it os obviously on their own land, and there is an involvement, certainl on the established branding

The guy did admit that they are looking for private type livery contracts, as he put it to us you can stable your horse here at very good rates and we will look after it for you, so yes it will certainly need some local support but the location lends itself to good quality riding

The Spanish love horse riding and in particular jumping and dressage and I know that there is another school  in the area  in Fuente Álamo, about 18 km away and most seem to operate with 10 -15 school owned horses

Key to the success will obviously be the development and I understand some unique routes in the national park and I expect that they will offer some special deals to Corvera owners

Sorry Superhero, I am now starting to understand where you're coming from.

The forum that you really want is called Butlins. It is situated in many places around the Uk near the seaside so your bucket and spade need not go unused. They also cater for families with lots of little kids and have fish and chips and lager and a whole lot of entertainment so you will never have to leave the site They probably show football matches on a big screen and have kids clubs to get the little ones out of your hair.

Jane and I however (and no doubt some other purchasers) have bought on Corvera because of its low build density, it's modern contemporary styling, quiet terraces overlooking a green golf course with the use of a nice pool and the generally good Murcian climate. Packed beaches and bustling nightlife is of no interest whatsoever to us.The rest really doesn't bother us as much as it obviously does you.

For your information I have been into MF several times over the past few years, as I also have DFS and the majority of all the furniture shops that advertise anywhere as well as a few that don't. I have visited at least a dozen lighting shops, garden centres (patio furniture) houshold linen shops etc etc. and numerous other developments before I decided on Corvera for the above reasons. It's called doing your homework.

And all this coming from somebody who has the audacity of giving himself a pretentious name like SuperHero??????

Doesn't really need commenting on!

Hi Roy ,

Good Morning  to you.

Sorry to ask  I am a  bit confused,

You say the new  Stables are not Corvera"s but subbed out to a Private enterprise to run with discounts for Corvera owners ?

I wish this superhero would leave the Post and go to Butlins and ride his Donkey,

Steve and Roy , dont rise to the bait ,

I suppose thats makes commercial sence to have it open to outside Riders after all it is a business

Regards

Hi all,

My wife and I just got back from Corvera last night, we had a great week. The weather could have been a bit better but it was just Spain getting a touch of the 'polar influence' that Ireland and the UK have had to put up with recently! Daily temperatures ranged from 6 degrees up to 16 degrees over the week. They had snow in Barcelona at one stage!

I have some photos of the Equestrian Centre, I'll load them up in a few minutes. It is still early days but you can see it taking shape. Unfortunately I did not take any photos of the 'livery' on the signage, as Roy says it is very similar to Corvera colours. I didn't make any enquiries as to who exactly owns/ will run it, but it is on Calidona land, just down from where the show flat and the old sales offices were.

I have some other photos which I'll load up as well, of Corvera and the new airport.

Ian

Just brought this back to the top because I have had quite a few people asking me who and how to get in contact with should they be considering a swap/deal.

I would advise to go direct to the only person that I know has the autority to make these deals and that is Jesus Molina. He is the legal representative for Calidona on site at Corvera.

If you are genuinly interested in CONSIDERING a swap/deal either phone Corvera sales office and ask for him personally or e-mail him at jmolina@calidona.com

Remember just by making the enquiry you are not committing to anything more than the situation you are already in so there really is nothing to lose

Finally let me re-iterrate I am not an estate agent, although they are still out there offering to do the negotiations for you if you require (at a price), I am just another purchaser who is very happy with the swap/deal that I have made and would like to help my future neighbours in Corvera community if at all possible. I get nothing but satisfaction from helping.

Steve

It’s my understanding that only approximately 30% of built properties on Corvera have been completed.

Whilst Calidona as a business entity may be reasonably buoyant, Corvera Golf and Country Club SL faces a serious risk of going into administration. 

At present, it is my understanding that community fees are being paid for by those who have completed and Corvera.  A charge for maintenance is also attributable to the undeveloped areas (of which there are many) which are clearly being mothballed for the foreseeable future.

Does anyone know what the implications are for those that have completed if Corvera does go into administration?  Could owners be facing community charges costing thousands and thousands per annum?

It seems highly likely to me that the directors of Corvera will take this step rather than enter a prolonged legal battle that has the potential for stalemate for many years and will damage their reputation and finances (via community charges) beyond repair.  Surely the most obvious strategy for these people is to wind Corvera Golf and Country Club SL up and then re-visit it when the economic climate is better?

 Given uncertainty on this I am surprised that people are swapping from phase 3 to 1 and 2.

I didn't want to be a doom monger and say this first- but I agree entirely.

My understanding is that the excess community fees will have to be paid by the unfortunate people who have completed in Corvera. I would estimate given my experience of paying fees on Roda and in La Manga club that this will run into many thousands of euros per anum. A 2 bed appartment in La Manga is €4,000 p/a so if there are less people you could be looking at double this.

I can't understand the reasoning behind swapping to another property.  There is no prospect of Corvera selling the vast majority of property on the site so all you are doing is tying up capital in an asset which can't be sold on a site which won't be completed. The currency risk alone is enough to wipe you out with mortgage payments if sterling takes another tumble.

I know the site looks good now, but once Calidona have 'greened over' the unsold 70% of the development and left who is going to pay to keep it up?

Hi there,

My understanding is that Corvera have to pay the community fees for any finished property where the sale of that property has not yet completed, as it is still legally theirs. Interestingly, they also have to pay a full share for any property that has physically been started, regardless of what stage of building it has reached.

I have just got the bill for my community fees for 2010 for a 2bed ground floor Tilo in Phase 1, for around €1,000 which I think is quite reasonable.

I would be interested to hear from mr unhappy re how he knows that Calidona are in good financial shape but Corvera Golf could be going into administration? I too would be concerned if Calidona could do a bunk and leave the completed owners facing heavy maintenance fees but I don't see how they could legally do this? Any solid info here would be appreciated...

Best to all,

Ian

Hi Ian - it is possible to purchase a financial report on the position of Corvera and they usually give an indication as to the likelihood that the business will enter difficulties.  Corvera's present ranking is very high risk. 

Given the background where the apartments and villas have been built but less than a third completed purchases, it is understandable that any report using an analysis of accounts for a Spanish construction company will produce a pessimistic report.

The Calidona group is however different in that it made a fortune from Roda and also purchased its landholdings outright (at least that is my understanding).  However whether they have the will to continuously subsidise a loss making subsidiary is another issue.  Past history shows that the senior managers are very risk averse - eg not even producing a commercial centre on Roda when they were raking money in.

Corvera exists as a seperate corporate entity to Calidona and its failure due to lack of income is highly likely in my opinion.  What's more I think that April will be the time when we find this out. 

The senior director of Calidona invested 65million euros of capital into a new property based business enterprise and one has to ask what the motives behind this are.

Hi Mr U

I personally don't think that Corvera will show it's true future until the airport is finished and accepting flights. As you know the fairways are running a little behind schedule and thus not yet open to the public. That said looking back at photographs from just a year ago, things grow pretty quickly in Murcia. This could possibly be a reason that there seems to be no panic to finish the Clubhouse until the Autumn when there might be more patrons wishing to use it and make it a viable business. You will probably find that Calidona are very astute in the way that they shift their resources from one developement to the other.Within a month or two we will probably see builders returning from P4 Roda (permissions were granted a while ago so agreed contractual timescale is running out) to complete the Clubhouse for late summer/autumn when the Spanish golfing season really starts. I also firmly believe that if a hotel is going to be built that it will tie in with the airport and it's operations rather than  be based around the country club theme.

As for winding the business up, I certainly hope not for anybody that feels they have a just case for return of deposits because the banks will want their builders loans back first which means more legal fees suing them if Calidona are no longer around and that only after the government have had their pound of flesh. At least by completing those unfortunate people will  have an actual property at their disposal rather than an argument with an insolvency agency that they cannot have their deposit back because the property that they had previously agreed to complete on is actually in existence. They will stick to the letter of the contract and won't care whether there is a spa or boudoire shopping complex on the pre-developement advertising, thus turning creditors into debtors. Once again as in every country in the world, the only people that will truly win will be the lawyers.

Does anybody know if any of South Island properties have been sold yet

Hi Steve I appreciate the points that you are making regarding the way that Corvera appear to manage their finances and construction activities.

It is fortunate for them that they are able to operate in a business environment that does not rely upon repeat custom.  Once consumers have signed such an open-ended contract it appears that their needs may be largely ignored.  How would your business cope if it treated customers in this way?

It's also fortunate that Corvera does not have to worry about further damaging its reputation for not delivering facilities as reputation issues are irrelevant in this present market.  Furthermore the lack of completions provides a ready made excuse for the lack of facilities.

Ultimately what you are saying is that the best chance of success for this resort relies on the airport to which I agree for many reasons.  Let's hope that this comes soon - who knows we may even get more tourist facilities in the area.   (Please can we forget about Disney and paramount rumours, there are enough "mickey mouse" resorts as it is and the irony of Paramount producing Titanic is not lost on me).

In terms of the situation re creditors or debtors if Corvera does go into administration therre are I believe differing views on this.  However I believe that it would be more likely that the banks would sell off the stock at the consent of the partial owners at realistic prices that reflect the true market value of the resort - who knows perhaps getting more completions this way would actually breath some life into it?

Whatever happens, something has to give, the legal processes in place will take many, many years unless some sensible resolution is made.  Any ideas where that may come from???

 I was across at Corvera between the 9th and 13th March and was told by the office staff that 90% of the South Island Menta Apartments are sold, how many have been completed on - don't know.

During the four days on site I saw furniture vans unloading on the South Island on 8 occasions and 4 No occupied apartments with lights on at night.

We have a Menta South Island which we completed on in Dec, our furniture was delivered today and is now ready for our first stay over Easter

Good post MrU and I totally agree with you..

It's good that this post is under the thread decided to deal because that really is the only way forward for everybody.If Corvera is eventually to be the success that most believe it has the capacity to be then EVERYBODY will have to show willing and give a little. A stubborn stand-off in the courts will benefit no-one exept the lawyers. The only way to reach amicable settlement is to talk to Corvera and discuss who will give what to reach that settlement and the giving cannot be one-way,. That said, unless people make contact for negotiations there will be no progress.

Jane and I made an initial contact with Jesus Molina purely to ask about possible start dates on P-3 and have come away from those negotiations with an excellent deal on an apartment on P-1. In comparison to our original choice of apartment there are both pro's and con's as it is a completely different layout/concept/position from the original but we are happy that the pro's win out.

Just thought of an example:

An investment based purchaser pays deposit on 2 properties on P-1 or P-2 which are now built but cannot afford to complete on both. A P-3 purchaser had no choice of P-1 or P-2 originally because they were bought up by investorswho listened to the Mac. He/she would swap his deposit onto P-1 or P-2 but none are available because deposits have been paid and they are contracted to the investor.

Both get in touch with Corvera. The investor gets a deal where his deposits are shifted to one apartment, the P-3 buyer gets a deal wherein his deposit is shifted to the (now available) P-1 apartment and Calidona complete on 2 sales. WIN-WIN-WIN !

MAKE CONTACT!