The Truth about Mileniun

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21 Apr 2012 11:08 AM by underpar Star rating. 139 forum posts Send private message

When I was over at La Isla at the end of January and saw the building being constructed directly on the other side of the lake I went to Milenium's offices and asked Nica at Milenium what it was for. She said then that it was to house the motorised machinery (i.e. pumps) to irrigate the resort and that Polaris were relocating the machinery there away from its current location near the slip road up to the main roundabout.

So Milenium knew full well what the building was for since at least late January.




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21 Apr 2012 11:36 AM by SMV Star rating in I'm in Dublin/Jardin.... 722 forum posts Send private message

I find all this interesting and slightly disturbing. 

But my view would be:

1) ML is doing a much improved job but I don't expect them to be perfect.  If there is a breakdown in communication I hope that formal requests are being made to ML and their answers kept.  Basically letters kept so its not a "he said, she said, they said discussion".  If new administrators may be appointed at some point I would want something to back up all these comments.

2) If I vote someone in I expect them to do the job.  I don't expect to have a vote on every issue especially if it involves complicated matters which would be hard to explain to everyone.  If you think the presidents do a bad job vote them out or run against them.  Obviously if there is something so significant it may pay to tell the owners but as an owner I don't expect to vote on everything...why have presidents if they need to call a vote on every decision.




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21 Apr 2012 2:58 PM by PGM Star rating in Cheshire & LOS NARAN.... 862 forum posts Send private message

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OK,  I hate controversial and complicated issues being debated on forums like this as you get bits of information and not the full understanding to make an informed decision so I am going to stay away from the issues directly so not to further muddy the waters.

 

However I would like to give personal comment on some specific issues raised.

 

Q. Why don’t the presidents keep us informed?

A. Well there are a number of reasons for that one, firstly from when I first became a President to just recently Mileniun would not provide me with the ability to contact the owners on my garden stating they could not do so for data protection purposes. It has taken till now to convince them this isn’t the case and that I am there properly appointed legal representative with responsibility for their interest and finances within my garden and as such have need to communicate with the owners on my garden. So now I am able to communicate with almost all the owners on my garden I do my best to provide them with regular updated and opinions from me and now send them a copy of official Minutes of meetings at the same time as inviting any relevant questions from them. Some other presidents do similar to this, if yours doesn’t you should ask them why and if you are not happy with the response, vote in a president who will keep you informed. Some presidents have the firm belief that after they are voted in it’s for them to undertake the responsibilities without further consultation, not the way for me but if your community is happy with that so be it.

 

Q. why are we not asked our opinion on these issues?

A. Well other than the above many of these issues and there are a number of important issues being dealt with by your Presidents at the moment which are detailed and complex and require a great deal of time to understand them, which we all could do if we wish. However we vote in our representative to represent us and they should do just that and keep you informed of their actions.

I don’t know of any other realistic alternative that would work. It’s the democratic way thing are done.

 

Q. Why have the presidents gone against the advice of our attorneys and Mileniun?

A. well I am not going to get into any specifics hear but if you are interested in detailed information then just question yours or any other president for their opinion on this. However we arrive at our decisions by following the legal structure of the Statutes of our Community and the requirements of the Horizontal Properties Act, which is the legal framework that we have to follow. As far as decisions on individual topics are concerned your presidents listen to the opinions and evidence presented to them and then has a democratic vote to decide the way forward, for individual Presidents some you win and some you lose, that’s democracy.

 

Q. how can decisions be taken by a small number or Presidents?

A. well this comes down to the Presidential structure of the Community, each Garden or Block votes in a President to represent them who are known as the Level 3 Presidents. The Level 3 Presidents vote in 5 Level 2 Presidents (including La Isla) and in turn the Level 2 Presidents vote in the Level 1 President. All these positions are voluntary and all have increasing responsibilities and powers. So as you invest the responsibility of your Garden or Block in your Level 3 President in turn your level 3 gives responsibilities to the level above them L2, L1. And in the same way you can vote to change your Level 3 President if you don’t like the way they represent you, so can the presidents change those above them in the same way. Now as I said each level has increased powers and responsibilities given to them under the Statutes and Horizontal properties Act which clearly defines the areas they have individual or collective responsibilities for. You Presidents can ONLY take action within the powers they have which has been given to them though the democratic process. So if a small number of Presidents vote on an issue it’s because they are empowered to do so under the law as it stands which is clearly understood by those involved. One last comment on this bit, even though they have no legal requirement to do so, often the Presidents at Level 1 and Level 2 consult the levels below them for their opinion before making a final decision on issues, so most often all presidents have their say on the big issues of the day.

 

Q. What’s wrong with Mileniun.

A. I wish I had the answer to this one to most of you will see them as excellent and in many ways they are look at the summer event we had last year which they were responsible for although you may not be aware that a number of your President had a hand in them too. However a number of your Presidents would like Mileniun to be more cooperative and open in the way they work with us which they seem to not like to do. I can only speak for myself now when I say that I get frustrated by having to repeatedly ask them to do something but they decide without reason or explanation to not do and when asked a question a question by me in my official capacity as garden President they decide to not respond to me again without reason despite their contractual requirement to do so.

It is also frustrating when information they have had knowledge of for weeks and months they only release to the presidents when they have to and then expect us to make a rushed decision about. I won’t get into specifics about this last point but some of the significant issues of the moment are relevant to this problem. I like a number of President DO NOT wish to see a change of Administrator and have seen numerous improvements in our resort due in no small way to the work of Mileniun. However there are some important issues in the way they work with your President they must understand they have to improve the way they work with your Presidents or unfortunately it will end up by us losing some very good Presidents from our community.

 

I hope the above is helpful.

 

Phil Mather

President L3 Naranjos 8

 




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21 Apr 2012 5:04 PM by barney111 Star rating. 1133 forum posts Send private message

Thanks for that Phil

I am not aware of much that has been happening, but I think the presidents do a great job (unpaid) for the benefit of the community. Also I appreciate the weekly communications from mileniun. This week some of the important issues have been mentioned in their email (as they should) as well as which gardens have had their grass cut.

The main issue is that communications between both parties should be improved with open and honest information. We don't want to lose mileniun - just identify the problems in communication and remedy them.

This would be better than changing administrators which would probably result in the same problem.

 

Barry

 



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21 Apr 2012 5:12 PM by mgk Star rating in Penthouse 2. 241 forum posts Send private message

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 Exellent post Phil, very informative on the way things work!



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21 Apr 2012 5:25 PM by TheQuietMan Star rating in UK and very occasion.... 535 forum posts Send private message

I dont think there's much doubt about the amount of time Presidents have to give to their unpaid job and that without them we'd be scuppered.

I think most people just want to have a handle on things that are going on- rightly or wrongly its a bit galling to hear of things only after they have happened or via a forum. It's that old 'need to know basis' and I find it rather Big Brother although I agree that sharing every single decision would be impossible but I'd quite like to know what was being dealt with on a weekly basis even if I can't vote or make an opinion heard. Afterall I am a grown up and can probably understand some of the more complicated topics. However, I can see that some owners would want to get involved and be heard and that would cause problems.

As I see it we'll be using the Lake as a resevoir, it now has water collected fromthe rainfall piped in and then we'll have to out source additional water. We were paying PW for water from the CDA2 sources so how much more could any company charge, PW are alwasy expensive?.

 


This message was last edited by TheQuietMan on 21/04/2012.

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21 Apr 2012 6:07 PM by PGM Star rating in Cheshire & LOS NARAN.... 862 forum posts Send private message

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Tony

I absolutely agree with you in the main although you do have to put some trust in the hands of the person you elected as president.

Your Presidents at the last meeting informed the Administrator they are not happy about them being the only ones to decide what information is given to owners and that this should be decided by the Presidents who I can ashore you would rather be informing you about important issues not just who is having there grass cut next and how good Milenuin are. Mileniun put themselves in the position of being the only ones to be able to communicate with all owners and are not wishing to give that privileged position up easily!

And as far as having a handle on things and not just finding out after the event is concerned, all I can say is welcome to your Presidents world. This is one of the areas we are working to improve.

Let me say just one more thing if it wasn’t for the likes of Phil Tann and some of the other Presidents that are resident in our community we would be in a far worse place than we are now, I am glad to say I know most of them personally and proud to call them friends as well as fellow Presidents and if I dare say this they deserve your support.

As I said before if you have a President that doesn’t keep you reasonably informed or isn’t actively working for your collective interests, then change them.

Phil M

 

 




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21 Apr 2012 7:47 PM by TheQuietMan Star rating in UK and very occasion.... 535 forum posts Send private message

I'm not in anyway critical of the Presidents-Phil Tann etc  probably deserve a medal for dealing with stuff when they know others wont really agree with his decisions.

 

I dont think all owners get contact with their Presidents and thats a problem.

 

I've little more to add so wont post fiuther on this topic but hope its resolved soon.



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21 Apr 2012 8:07 PM by PGM Star rating in Cheshire & LOS NARAN.... 862 forum posts Send private message

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Hi Tony

I am sorry if my last post gave you the impression that I was criticising you comments in any way , far from it I was agreeing with you, I just added my personal opinion and support for the work done by some President that live at CDA and deal with these issues Day after Day for us all.

But that will be my last post on this issue, as I said at the start I am not a lover of these issues being debated on an open forum in this way, as its hard to give a full information and understanding.

Phil M

 

 




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21 Apr 2012 9:49 PM by Hamibabe Star rating in West Mids. 1317 forum posts Send private message

Hi

Having read all of the above can I firstly reply to

. Why we are not asked our opinion on these issues?

A. Well other than the above many of these issues and there are a number of important issues being dealt with by your Presidents at the moment which are detailed and complex and require a great deal of time to understand them, which we all could do if we wish. However we vote in our representative to represent us and they should do just that and keep you informed of their actions. I don’t know of any other realistic alternative that would work. It’s the democratic way thing are done.

I am sure that many of us would NOT find any information, if given, in any way complex Over the years I have sat on & been chairperson on many committee’s

Ham manages a budget of £15million  & manages it very well.

If the money that is paid out to millennium is more than Ham gets paid yearly  &  believe me, working for the health authorite pays nothing like they do in the other 999 services,it could save you thousands

By the way I have not asked Ham,though I know he would love to live on Condado permanently but is too young to look at retirement

Of course there is a language problem as living in Spain; I believe should mean that you should be able to get by in the mother tongue but knowing Ham he would pick up the "lingo" very quickly.

Seriously though,I have to say that as owners of an apartment in Jardin 5 we have NEVER received any communications from either our Jarden president or his deputy.

It could be argued that he doesn’t speak any other language other than Spanish & that is why & so I will ask our wonderful Spanish neighbours whose English puts our Spanish to shame if they have ever had any communications. I think they will say no.

With regards to the irrigation

We were over in March & we were surprised at the state of patches of the golf course. It was evident even then that there was little irrigation if any.

As for the new trees, I am sure I read or was told that the Jardin presidents were requesting more trees in some of the gardens & if that is so why did they let it go ahead when there was a national water shortage throughout Spain? 

All of my working life until just recently I have worked in many voluntary capacities & I know you will all ways be expected to do even more & often without a thank you.

I except that being a president at any level is often a thankless task but if you cannot take the heat get out of the kitchen.

Well that’s my turn on the soap box over for another year.

See you all in June

Jan x

 



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22 Apr 2012 12:30 AM by SMV Star rating in I'm in Dublin/Jardin.... 722 forum posts Send private message

I think that expecting the presidents to be able to inform owners of each issue, in exactly the right amount of detail to allow an understanding of that issue, is totally unrealistic. 

It would be a nightmare to even work out what was relevant and what wasn't.  You are going to have owners who have no idea of the relevant regulations which govern the community itself, let alone the spanish laws/regulations which apply to the community.  I understand Jan's comment that she might not find anything too complex but exactly how much information would have to be provided for everyone to be able to make a proper informed decision.

To be honest I'm not 100% happy if the community was acting against paid professional advice but the presidents have the info, have been to the meetings, read the letters, discussed the issues etc etc.  They were voted in to make these decisions. 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




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22 Apr 2012 12:38 AM by PGM Star rating in Cheshire & LOS NARAN.... 862 forum posts Send private message

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Hi Jan

As the first part of your comment was to reprint my comments and then give the impression that I was in any way saying that all could not do this. Then you completely misunderstood my point .

The clue was in my statement “which we all could do if we wish”

I will say no more.

 




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22 Apr 2012 10:05 AM by stonephil Star rating in Stone Staffordshire .... 399 forum posts Send private message

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I have read this thread with great interest and would like to echo the thoughts of many by thanking Phil and our other presidents for their hard work.

Regarding the irrigation my question is this

"What have ML gained by not informing the presidents immediately?"

"Is there an hidden agenda or are they covering their own short comings up?

 

One final word regarding level 3 Presidents.

Our President is a Spanish lady. I have tried to communicate with her by all email addresses, including her personal one and she never responds. When at CDA  I have been to her apartment, she is never there. I have no idea how she represents our Jardin and nor does anyone else. The problem is no one else is prepared to put themselves forward, and I believe our presidents should be resident.

Under these circumstances I would rather be represented by one of the other, hard working,  Presidents, what can we do?



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22 Apr 2012 10:00 PM by Jay05 Star rating in We are in Los Naranj.... 1464 forum posts Send private message

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We also would like to add our support to the presidents and Phil. The job they do for us is fantastic and we feel indebited to them for all their hardwork.

As for Milenium there are no complaints from us as we don't know of any of the issues in depth that the presidents on behalf of the community have to face. Obvioulsy to be informed of all the day to day issues would be riddiculous but as others have mentioned it would be much better if Milenium could release the contact details of each owner to the presidents so we all be lept in the loop regarding issues that are important and that we'd all like to know about. Our Naranjos garden 7 has had up until recently a spanish president who has been in contact with us all be it infrequently. He's emails have been in Spanish and when translated have been virtually impossible to understand but at least he's tried and he was able to get the email addresses for us over a year ago. 

If there has been a growing list of issues and mistrust formed between the presidents and Milenium then we as owners should be told. We would like to know honestly if this latest issue (irrigation) is infact a direct result of the legal action taken and we'd also still like to know in detail please what the action was taken for. At least then we'd know what was really happening out there and would help allay the fears about all of our investments. We trust the presidents implicitly and fully expect them to do the utmost for us but if things have turned a little sour please don't keep us in dark about it.

All the best to all of you and once again thanks for all the effort.

Cheers

 

Jay & Lisa


 


This message was last edited by Jay05 on 22/04/2012.


This message was last edited by Jay05 on 22/04/2012.


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23 Apr 2012 3:40 PM by robandbev Star rating in South Africa. 42 forum posts Send private message

We just saw that our "super" president is running his business from his private residence, totally ilegal as the dwellings must not be used for business use especially being our president he should really stick to the by laws, maybe the comunity should sue him instead of IRM? Will he be held responsible for his actions or negligence? I heard from my spanish neighbour that the comunity presidents respond with their assets for any harm they do to the comunity, is that true? Maybe the thread "truth about CDA and the presidents" would have been a better title....

 

 

RobandBev 




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23 Apr 2012 4:58 PM by Jay05 Star rating in We are in Los Naranj.... 1464 forum posts Send private message

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Is it me or is this all getting a bit lemon??

Jay


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23 Apr 2012 6:24 PM by b.bravo Star rating. 45 forum posts Send private message

 To "robandbev"

I am a freelancer in the transportation industry(the one with wings attached). Do you
think I will take my laptop and step outside my apartment each time I communicate 
with a potential client or drive to PW Store and pay for internet ,which I have 24/7 in
apartment?
 
Maybe,robandbev,you should be a little more specific. Do you see any signs posted
in front of "super" president's apartment or maybe a neon-sign flashing in the night?
If so,go and have a conversation with him. Don't bring it up here on this thread.
 
Start a new one. Call it "Personal Attacks" or something of that nature.Better yet,go
to ML and complain about it.
 
Yes,Jay05, you are correct.
 
Thanx,BB.




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23 Apr 2012 6:25 PM by Hamibabe Star rating in West Mids. 1317 forum posts Send private message

Hi PGM

Just re read your post & stand corrected.

My offer for Ham to run Condado still stands Ha Ha.

 

Jan xx



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23 Apr 2012 6:27 PM by Hamibabe Star rating in West Mids. 1317 forum posts Send private message

Whoops. Sorry Phil

Didnt mean for Ham to be Presedent

I meant to take over from ML Though I have to say, not knowing all of the story, that we have always been impressed with them

Jan 



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23 Apr 2012 8:12 PM by taffswell Star rating. 52 forum posts Send private message

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