Call to AGM & Painting

Hi

Yes.. thats my point - it is about value for money and whether we will infact get what we are paying for... thats why im frustrated that people dont seem to understand.. they are just asking for money and not explaining the process.. so on that basis im not happy to pay.. Of course i want condado to look nice and be attractive.. but i want to know when and how my money is going to be spent.. dont forget this is outside of the agreen maintenance - so surely we should all be included in the options.

also.. what happens when the gardens start to look a bit shabby..will we be charged extra for that too.. where will it end...

I dont think they want us to paint our own properties at all - they want the money so they can paint all of the resort.. including the ones still owned by the banks (not yet sold)  and non payers - I want to know if the bank will be paying their part.. and when my property will be painted (anytime in the next 5 years isnt good enough ) - i am perfectly happy to arrange to have it painted.. but thats not what they are asking is it?.... there was no option to paint it yourself..... If there is mismanagement of funds.. why are we being asked to pay for it.. i can arrange for my property to be painted next week.. but they will still want to take the money .. so lets not be under any illusion as to why they want so much money (way over what people think is reasonable)..i dont know why they cant be honesty and transparent and just say.. we are sorry.. we messed up .. can you help please....

Maybe we should start to clarify the proposal. The paint job which you would ask as an individual is not comparable to what the presidents are proposing. The paint job executed by the comunity (US!!) includes a much higher value paint, not just the odd 29 euro bucket of white paint, it includes as well the power wash, filling of all kind of troubled areas, TWO coats of paint and is as well garanteed. Due to h&s the painter cant use any ladders, it must always be schafolded and no extension may be used. The work forces have to proof that its all legal and all taxes, socials and others are covered. Compared to the "owner & dog" jobs you might have in mind this needs to be executed by professional painters who also garantee their work. Some others have mentioned before that they had their places painted already twice privatly during the last years, maybe a sign for poor labour & paint? Only some thoughts....

It's impossible to compare the figure being requested by ML to the figure quoted to paint individual apartments because when you start to look around you realise how much communal/common area there is which needs painting such as stairs, walkways, rear walls etc. I also assume that the Condado club and Al Kasar have been included? The figure of €200.00 quoted to paint individuals is for front and back of their partment only.

All ML have done is get the most competitive quote of the tenderers and divided it by the number of properties to produce a total per apartment. This is one way of doing it or the alternative would be by block. On this basis IMO the dearest would be the penthouses due to the size of them at the rear/car park areas etc and also the access equipment needed. In the same way 2 bed first floor garden apartments would be more slightly expensive than ground floor ones due to access and also the roof terrace walls. This would take a bit of working out but not impossible. There are pros and cons for doing it both ways.

Based on €600.00 per apartment x 3000no apartments would suggest the quote is around €1.8m. A bigger question for me is if the company selected has the resources to handle a contract of this size, which I assume they have asked?

The other option on the voting slip is for the overall programme to take 3 years or 4 years. As someone pointed out it is a bit like painting the Forth bridge and they could realistically turn round when finished and commence again. ie never ending. A yearly ring fenced maintenance fee for painting from here on would be useful IMO as it would of been from the start (but thats hindsight!). Any slush fund in the accounts is taken up by non payment of fees by debtors.

Whether the figure is right or wrong the resort needs painting and has done in some areas for the last 2 years.

The Condado club and Al Kasar are not part of the community, they are private areas owned and maintained by IRM and so are not part of this painting exercsie.

There are very few communal areas on the resort, in the gardens the rear walls are owned by each property.  The only true communal areas are in the penthouses that have communal stairwells, lift entrances and walk ways.  But these are exclusive comminal areas to each penthouse block and so should be paid for by the owners in each specific block in exactly the same way as they currently pay for the lift maintemance and cleaning.  Outside of the penthouses the only communal parts are the electricity and telecom boxes around the roads and between some gardens.  

Can the selected company actually do the work?  now there's a good question, he seem to be a one man band who intends to employ his mates who may or may not have any painting experience?  So why is he being choosen over the many established spainish painting contractors in the area?

From the Naranjos AGM, in which many owners voted against the painting proposal, dispite what some may tell you, Mileniun came up with slightly different proposal to those on the form.  

We are all being asked to pay €5/month extra which will be put into a seperate painting pot together with any funds returned from the Polaris court case for unpaid fees and any debts recovered from owners.  When there is enough money painting will start and the owners will be charged thier costs depending on their property quota.  

At the meeting it was stated that the cost would be calculated by quota not a fixed price per property. This recognises that in a resort with differing property types, penthouses, apartments and Villas that will be different costs, the Villas have a large surface area and the penthouses will require specialist scaffolding and so would have a different cost to a garden apartment. To charge all owners a single cost irrespective of their quota is against the law and our statutes

 For me the big holes in this are the lack of any timescales or real costs.   

So, we are being asked to pay €5/Month extra, but we do not know for how long, One year?  Two years, ten years?  Forever?

They are relying on getting funds back from debtors?  Based on their past success with this i wouldn't hold your breath.

They will start painting when they have the funds.  Again when?,  One year?  Two years, ten years?  Never?

When they start we will be changed by property quota, according to the law.  But they do not really know the final cost?  So, if for example they decide to start in two years time, and let's assume they recover no debts.  So at that time i have paid an extra €120 towards painting.  At that time they decree that the cost of painting my property ( by quota ) will cost €600.  So will they then ask be to pay an extra €480? or will the community fees go up again to cover the difference?

If you are going to this weeks AGM's for the Jardines then perhaps you should be asking questions about this.  At the moment it looks as if they do not have a real plan and are making it up as they go along. 

If, as suggested, we pay €15 per quarter extra on our community charge why can paintong not be started immediately after first quarter payment received.  €15 x 300 apts = €45,000. Surely this is enough to cover one Jardin, penthouse block or Janas. After the second quarter move on to next Jardin, penthouse block etc. Is this payment really being used as a "painting" fund or to keep Milleniun afloat?. At present we are €807,000 down in debtors non payments, this shows up on books as an asset!!!!!!. Looks to me like €180,000 a year would come in very handy. There is no painting plan arranged and no definite costs agreed, just give your money and sit and wait. Very suspicious.

If, as suggested, we pay €15 per quarter extra on our community charge why can paintong not be started immediately after first quarter payment received.  €15 x 300 apts = €45,000. Surely this is enough to cover one Jardin, penthouse block or Janas. After the second quarter move on to next Jardin, penthouse block etc. Is this payment really being used as a "painting" fund or to keep Milleniun afloat?. At present we are €807,000 down in debtors non payments, this shows up on books as an asset!!!!!!. Looks to me like €180,000 a year would come in very handy. There is no painting plan arranged and no definite costs agreed, just give your money and sit and wait. Very suspicious.

Painted my own 2bed apartment in jardine 4,done it over 2 days,only 4hours each day,and got a nice tan.

It really isn't that hard.Also what about owners who haven't paid their community charges for months?

Will they still get it done under this monthly payment scheme?

All these things need to  b sorted before any monies taken out of our accounts.

Painted my own 2bed apartment in jardine 4,done it over 2 days,only 4hours each day,and got a nice tan.

It really isn't that hard.Also what about owners who haven't paid their community charges for months?

Will they still get it done under this monthly payment scheme?

All these things need to  b sorted before any monies taken out of our accounts.

I think the general consensus is... there needs to be more communication and set timescales involved with regards to each jardin etc etc before we are happy to comply.. whats wrong with that... ?

Hi all

I will happily pay (1200 euros in my case) for my apartments and my jardin to be painted and look brand new

But would only hand over my hard earned cash the day after MY apartments and MY jardin was painted

Excellent Plan Raygooner :-)

Its hard to argue with any of the comments on this forum, however these sort of issues will continue to arise untill we all start to play a greater role in the management of the resort. as has been already refered to in previous posts who are these presidents and who decided the agenda. Also mentioned previously are the bank owned properties being painted and are they paying their share (I would be surprised). I think it is unrealistic to assume the fees will never rise but the community as a whole should be better informed as to what these increases should pay for. While i am happy with the resort management l do like others feel rather detached from what goes on there.

Its hard to argue with any of the comments on this forum, however these sort of issues will continue to arise untill we all start to play a greater role in the management of the resort. as has been already refered to in previous posts who are these presidents and who decided the agenda. Also mentioned previously are the bank owned properties being painted and are they paying their share (I would be surprised). I think it is unrealistic to assume the fees will never rise but the community as a whole should be better informed as to what these increases should pay for. While i am happy with the resort management l do like others feel rather detached from what goes on there.

I emailed my J13 garden president and got a response to explain the costs and why there is no option to vote against the price quoted. 

Firstly, they said that we are just voting on the costs based on the cheapest quote obtained to the standard all the presidents want. No contract has been signed or put in place yet and no company has been awarded the contract.

The standard they want to implement is for every area of the resort to be repaired, replace all damaged plaster and to be sealed. They would use grey rock finish with a silicone base to seal the concrete before paint is applied. They feel thsi is a much harder wearing solution and by approaching it in this way will ensure the resort does not need painting for another 8 to 10 years.

At the moment the plan is to open a savings fund for this work with each owner paying in 15 euros per quarter, 5 euros a month aside from our community fees and set aside specifically for painting. I am not sure what '5 euros a month aside from our community fees' means exactly.

I assume that the other options on the form (b to e) are for us to decide how we want to pay the 600 euros they have ben advised it will cost to get us all painted. Unfortunately it is still not clear to me what timeframe any of this will take regardless what option we take to pay.

For that reason I think I will vote option a) for now so the painting programme can begin with the worst affected areas, which will probably be the communal areas, and then at least we will have time to see how the painting pans out, who does the painting and to give us all more details with which to base our opinion on.

The risk is by not voting at all we will all be bound by the vote regardless - I dont think refusing to pay is an option as if decided it will just add as s debt to your community fees.

Hi all, this is not on ! there is so much rubbish coming from our so called management team. They are paying hand over fist for things on site, we all know the way they do business - shady at best. Ive been paying my fees from the start and we were ALL told the painiting would coming out of this money every 5 years, what are we going to be told next ? that the fees do not cover pool cleaning or grass cutting ???  and as for payong for someone elase property  - no way on this earth am I doing that, the properties owned by the bank should be paid for by the bank, When the banks sells the properties will they be giving us some of the profits for keeping theirs looking nice and new ( no of course they wont !!!)  In england I do not know anyone that goes next door and pays for their windows to be renewed or there car to be fixed. As long as the management company say we have to pay for the banks properties ( ie the empty properties and the commercial/businesses (condado club etc ) I will certainly NOT be paying a penny. and I wont let anyone enter my property to do the painting. I am paying the mortgage its my property so keep off it

Is anyone thinking of starting a petition since we arent given the option to vote against it ( are the management company working for us or is it the other way round they should be taking direction from us ! The amount of money that goes through their fingers and they still cant sort things out properly its about time we thought about a vote of no confidence !)

Would it not be easier to employ a couple of painters full time to constantly go around the resort to paint all the communal areas and surfaces that can be seen while walking or driving round the resort.These areas could be agreed between presidents and Millemium.Obviously there will be some people moaning that someone has got a bigger wall than they have but your just gonna have to get over it.This would leave the rest of the walls I.e inside balconies solariums etc to be done by owners.Apparently there is no money to pay for this but this should not cost more than a few euros each quarter per apartment to get sorted.This way all materials and equipment can be accounted for and work inspected.This way the resort stays looking nice and there is still enough work for private companies to get a living.

Ahhhh

I am so confused

I do think that the comments and information given by Leigh on Jardin 13 thread has been helpful but like many I still wonder where the presumed allocated painting money went to.

If I was paying into a business here in the UK I would have the right to see the accounts. Not just the latest one but those dating backwards

Do we not have the same rights? I know Spanish law will be different & as we expect foreigners to abide by UK law then we too have to abide by Spanish law.

However I wonder if we do have any rights to view the accounts. I don’t think we should all turn up on mass but if we could select two independent owners from each garden to see the account & then relay them back to us all I think it would put many peoples mind at rest

Ideally the representative (s) would have a good financial understanding, having their own successful company or managing a multi pound budget would be best as they would not be bamboozled by all of the jargon

I would be interested to know how we stand legaly and every ones views

Jan 

There is an annual reserve of 5% to cover unpaid community fees and unbudgeted expenses and anything left over could then be used to build up, for example, a painting fund. But unpaid community fees are so high (looks like more than 5%) there isn't any spare funds. A proper budget should have the annual reserve at more than 5% but most owners want to pay the minimum and Mileniun are appeasing them. Getting on top of the non-paying community fees is the most important issue (and new initiatives like removing internet and TV may help a little). It looks like the non-payers are Individuals and Polaris.

Agreeing to pay an extra 5 euros per month to start urgent painting is not a long-term solution and may cost more in the long run. At some stage the painting needs doing properly but it will take a long time to collect the funds needed (bear in mind not all owners will pay as there is already a high amount of outstanding community fees) unless a high proportion of the overdue community fees can be collected (what's going/gone to the courts could pay for about half of the painting costs).

Seems that you still dont understand how a comunity works in Spain and you even dont read (or understand?) the information sent out by the administrator on behalf of the elected representatives. There is a democratic system in place and we are all represented by the presidents of each garden who look into accounts and any other business of the comunity. The admin is sending out all relevant information regularly, if you dont want to read it and prefer to complain that's your private decision but please dont repeat again and again the same misinformation. We all know that the "banks" are paying the fees as any other owner should, we all know that there was never money allocated to the paiting fund, we all know that Polaris promised a lot and did not fullfill and lots more. Maybe you dont listen that much to ex-presidents (part responsible for the situation) and rather ask your garden president who can provide the most accurate information. We are totally convinced that our representatives are doing a great job to keep the resort up and running, they all work on our behalf and they deserve respect.