Are Banks cutting Back on lending

Max it was you that crossed the line with your accusations and you did say  (quote).

 "There are some circumstances which made it relatively easy for me to identify the offender. I won’t reveal what I know, but I hope the person makes himself known. The people who did it (closely related to the actual owner)"

This is just gossip that you started and as you were not even there at the time you had no idea it was a contractor with my mother and not my father. 

I dont want to fall out with anybody and i'm sure my mother won't sue you so relax in that department. This has upset her and things get said in the heat of the moment.

As vicepresident you should really have the facts before you add your so called abstract posts as these help nobody get anywhere.  As vicepresident you should have contacted me instead of telling all on eyeonspain what you thought you knew. The first I knew of this was when my mother told me Gemsat had been fefused entry to the skybox so I Iooked on eyeonspain to see what was going on. That is when I saw this thread and phoned Max but he was out.

Its easy to add your little bit on a thread about how we should punish the person that broke the skybox but lets get the facts straight first.

All I want is Sky and you are making it very difficult .

The facts are that I nor anybody in my family has broken anything and you know that  my mother never even went up to the skybox and I am in the UK. The only reason my mother was there was to show the contractor where Don Juan was.

As I said before the contractor has said he will go to the police in the morning .

Andy

Hi all,

I cannot believe what is going on here. I notice things have gone very quiet since the accused has put his side of the story on this post. Here is my opinion anyway. I agree with you all 100% that if damageis done to the communal areas by anyone, I don't care who they are, they should pay for it. Why should the community pay for it. But it seems to me that this person has been found guilty before given a chance to prove he is innocent. I always thought in law, it was the other way round. I am beginning to think some of you were on jury service the day the "Guildford four" and "Birmingham six" got sent down. Now that he has given his side of the story, here is my opinion. He has said his mother went with the sky contractor to arrange the installation. Having been told that his mother is in her 70's, do i think she is guilty of kicking a door in, or breaking a lock, or damaging a door, NO. Which leaves three other options. Was it Andy Irwin, the owner, apparently not, as he lives in the UK and was not there at the time, and that is why he sent his mother. Could it have been the sky contractor that his mother brought with him, possibly. Could it have been someone else not involved in this accusation, possibly. Now, with the third option being the sky contractor, unless he is incredibly stupid, would you break into a secure area, then realise you now need access with a key to get to the installation area. Surely that would make you the number one  suspect for breaking the door in the first place. Would he really be that stupid to do such a thing, who knows. Which leaves us with the other option, that someone else broke the door. I agree with what Rene said, the police should not be involved with this at this moment, as I think it could have quite easily been resolved between both parties privately, and if it could not be done at that level, then get the police involved. Imagine the stress this has brought on this pensioner, having the police questioning her. In my opinion, unless this woman is built like a brick sh*thouse, has tattoos down both arms, and a hairy back, I don't think she done it. I think part of this typifies the problem we have with communication wiith the owners. Not all owners read everything on this site, I for one knew nothing about the community site until not long ago, and I am often on her. I would estimate only 10 - 20% of owners from Phase 1, know or read about this site. Putting flyers under the doors or in the post boxes of all the owners of any information regarding Don Juan would be a start. Compiling email addresses would be an even quicker way of sending information. More information on notice boards by the post boxes. Had some of these ideas been in place, an incident like this would not have happened in the first place, so it would have been one less headache to deal with. Just incase you think I might be a good friend of Andy Irwin, I have never even met the guy. This is just my opinion, like it or lump it. I would now like to hear from ALL of you what your opinion is now. 

Westport


This message was last edited by westport on 6/20/2008.

 

Hi All, 
This has turned into a right mess. With hindsight it would have probably been better to have this incident investigated internally by the helpers/residents at Don Juan before posting any information on this forum. I know that there has been damage/vandalism at DJ not just with satellite boxes but also with the doors to some of the water storeroom locations etc...... I still think that if we cannot get to the bottom of these incidents internally we definitely need to get the Police involved, this way people will think twice before doing anything that they shouldn’t.

Whether we like it or not this forum seems the only way that we can communicate and get information with what is going on at Don Juan. I think that there are some major problems with DJ. There are lots of outstanding issues with Phase1, in my opinion and based on my experiences the people that have purchased in phase 2 will be lucky to complete this year. Anyone that has bought in phase 3 needs to be concerned because even if the developers resume building now, the prospective owners will be unlikely to complete before 2010 - 2011 at the earliest.

The only way that we will get through these problems is if we stick together and form a strong community. It is easy for people (Inc me) to make to make snap judgements based on the information that we see on this site. People also need to be careful in their  generalisations. All British people do not eat roast beef every day and watch Coronation Street/Eastenders at every opportunity. All dogs have the ability to shit on grass not just the Spanish ones etc....................

Volunteers like Max & Dave and other DJ residents/helpers are doing there best to sort out the problems/issues and without them DJ would definitely be in a much worse situation. I personally would not want them to take a step back because of this incident.

Lets all learn from this experience and stick together to make Don Juan into great place to live and holiday.

I will be over at the end of July if anyone would like to meet up for a beer etc..

Regards, Andy 

This message was last edited by otterandy on 6/20/2008.

It is indeed regrettable that this has developed as it has. I had been in private correspondence with both Andy and Max and had hoped to achieve a satisfactory solution. Now that Andy has decided to publicly identify himself the best thing I can do is set out the facts as I understand them and let people come to their own conclusions.

Saskia received a call from an unidentified female demanding access to the communications room in block 9 to facilitate a connection to the community Sky dish. Later that day I received a call from Max, who was quite upset telling me about the call and that he had subsequently discovered that the room had been broken into. I and other members of the Junta went up and I was disgusted at the wanton destruction that I saw. That is why I made the original post. Max later informed me that he had discovered the call had come from the same number as Mrs Irwin has printed on her business card. Andy says it was the contractor that made the call but there is no dispute that the Irwin’s wanted to connect to the community dish using their own unauthorised contractor.  I asked Andy why he had opted to use an unauthorised contractor. He told me he didn’t know that he was supposed to use Gemsat explaining that “I don’t use eos very much”. Andy was an active contributor to this thread when the deal was being discussed and had his famous spat with Rene35 on the dog muck thread AFTER the full details of the deal had been published both on EOS and the notice boards in every block. In spite of this I suppose it is possible that he knew about the community dish but assumed you just made your own connection to it.

So who broke the lock? I agree with Westport’s analysis and think it is unlikely that Andy or his mother did. Unlike Gemsat, who do their own installations, most Sky vendors use freelance installers who work for a set fee per instation. Given that the locks were broken routinely when the unauthorised installations were made before the community dishes arrived it is quite conceivable that the installer brought in by Mrs Irwin did do it. However I doubt if this can be proved.

I agree with otterandy - I think it is time we learnt from our experience and put this unhappy event behind us - see you at the end of July!

I do agree with David’s description. I too had a private discussion with Andy and didn’t want to name and shame him. He argues that I made it clear that it was I who identified him, but that’s only he recognized himself in the description. As far as I knew no one else could identify him this way and I did that on purpose. I wanted the person responsible to take his own responsibility and step forward. Not name and shame him. That’s why I left out most of the details.

The facts are that:

The lock was in perfect order when I showed someone the atico next to it.This was around ten o’clock the evening before. The telephone call the next morning seemed familiar so I went through my brain and found Andy’s mum businesscard with that same number. The installer was not very nice to Saskia,  nor was Mum. They didn’t take no for an answer and didn’t accept the information on the noticeboard (Saskia referred several times to that). They could have called Gemsat at that moment, but as Andy reported he only looked it up on  EOS after he heard from the commotion.

Fact is that the installer said that he didn’t want to install a dish as he knew that was not allowed (how did he know if he refused to read the notice board and never heard from the common dish. He actually referred to the common dish and ‘just wanted to connect to it’. This would clearly be theft from the point of view of Gemsat and a breach of contract from our community. After Saskia repeated that he was not allowed to do it, he said ‘Then I know what to do’ which clearly not meant calling Gemsat as that happened much later.

When I came home an hour later the lock was drilled out and fresh metal dust was laying on the floor.

Now you can believe what you want, but it would be strange if these facts were unrelated. The only other English speaking guy in that block without a connection is at the moment in Ireland so he can’t be it. Besides they would have bumped into each other with their installers.

I’m not interested if mum (who is still in very good health for a seventy year old) or the installer did it. From the point of view of the community the one who instructs someone is the responsible, not the hired hand.

And to repeat because the most important things are often overlooked after a long post: I did my utmost not to identify Andy publically, but just to make it possible to recognize himself. I now await the solicitor and won’t act as vicepresident as long that’s not cleared, but I’m confident I didn’t damage any ones reputation by my original post. The coming out by Andy did the damage and could have better been handled by PM.

Anyway we decided not to go the police this time, but send a letter to Andy about several issues with renters. (for good order: I opposed that decision). 

Max

 

 

Max 

An initial pm to me before you decided to broadcast it to the rest Spain would have saved all this hassle and false accusation.

With reference to the 'renters' most of them have been friends and family who stay (which is not very often!).  Again this is another piece of communication that should have gone by pm rather than eos if there was a problem (which I doubt very much).   Is it because I turned you down when you asked me if you could rent it out on our behalf ?.

I too have an issue but I will contact you by pm rather than broadcast it to world.

Also you could never name and shame me as I have done nothing wrong. 

Your right about one thing though, my mother does look good for her age and an apology would not go amiss to her for the false accusations.

I think there is a serious conflict of interest with you running a business on the development and also being the vice president.



I did contact Dave Munster after getting nowhwere with you and he sent a very short unhelpful reply and as a %100 innocent party in all this  I felt let down by both of you as the 'representatives' of the community.

Westport is not alone with his views either as I have received a number of PM's from other people who have raised a number of similiar concerns. 

I hope this has been a learning curve for all concerned and hope other people do not get this poor treatment in future.

Why dont we have a meeting in August when I can be there in person.


Andy

To the other readers of this thread I would like to say that Sky has now been installed by Gemsat.
 

This message was last edited by Andy irwin on 6/20/2008.

hello everybody

It seems like we all agree that this issue has become a terrible mess. It is always easy to suggest a better solution to a problem when we can look back in time and learn how it was not the best solution.

Putting myself in Andy´s place: If I rented my appartment to any freinds of mine I would not like to read on EOS if they were suspected of anything. I would prefer to receive a mail and solve the problem personally.

Putting myself in Max´place: He has worked very hard together with the rest of the committee to help our community. He puts a lot of efforts into the Gemsat-deal and is always informing this board about all matters. It must be very frustrating to see the broken things. I have been dealing with Max/Saskia compagny since November . They arranged everything for us. And despite of  turning him down about renting too - I have NEVER had any troubles/problems with him beeing Vicepresident.  He has always acted proffessional.

I am sure that all our posts are posted with the best intensions to solve this problem. I still support our committee, and hope that both the committee and all neighbours will learn from this episode. I hope we all will be able to forget about this mess and enjoy our summer in Don Juan.

We go for the beer together - hope to meet as many as possible in the end of July.

Grethe



This message was last edited by solgre on 6/20/2008.

Andy,

I see you edited your last post severely as in the original version you were threatening to have 'a chat face to face with me when you were in Spain instead of this cowardly internet conversation'.

The information that there will be a letter about your and your renters behaviour was informational; it was a decision made by the committee instead of going to the police.  You all expect to me to tell what happens on the committee. I could have told it by PM, but all this info is anyway public thanks to your own post. If the committee decides to give a formal warning that's in the books. I want to remind you that I was opposed to writing the formal letter, but the committee decided otherwise. You are perfectly aware that I mentioned earlier problems with your renters only by PM to you and you were grateful about that.

The accusation that I mix my two roles is a bit late. I can sincerely say that I never did. I can't even remember that you didn't want to use my rental services but it wouldn't have bothered me anyway. We have more apartments on offer than renters at the moment and we prefer two beds anyway. So there is no hidden agenda at my side. We know your parents exploit your apartment on your behalf and we have no problem at all with that. We do hope they are succesfull in it on your behalf.

If people feel that I can't combine the two roles they should have stepped forward and say so. Stating you received PM's is the same as me saying that I received very supportive PM's tonight (which is actually true).

Anyway the point is now mute. I have always said that I would withdraw as vice president the moment people perceived it as a conflict of interests so there is a vacancy. Who is going to fulfill it? I hope one of the critics who so far didn't have the courage to step forward and say so will now take their responsibility and replace me on an informal basis until the next general meeting.

Best regards,

Max

Hi Westport,

I agree with most of your analysis, but I think you misunderstood one thing.

You said: 'Which leaves three other options. Was it Andy Irwin, the owner, apparently not, as he lives in the UK and was not there at the time, and that is why he sent his mother. Could it have been the sky contractor that his mother brought with him, possibly. Could it have been someone else not involved in this accusation, possibly. Now, with the third option being the sky contractor, unless he is incredibly stupid, would you break into a secure area, then realise you now need access with a key to get to the installation area. Surely that would make you the number one  suspect for breaking the door in the first place. Would he really be that stupid to do such a thing, who knows

Someone drilled out the lock on that morning to discover that there were no available slots in the expensive multiswitch installed by Gemsat. They couldn't know that before drilling it open. So it was not a case of breaking while realizing you need an extra key,  but a discovery he could only make after breaking open the door. And clearly it was not a thief otherwise he would have taken the expensive multiswitch, so it was someone who wanted to connect a cable bypassing Gemsat.


And your other valid point could have been 'More information on notice boards by the post boxes. Had some of these ideas been in place, an incident like this would not have happened in the first place, so it would have been one less headache to deal with." But we did follow that and put a very clear notice about the sky/ftv etc dishes on the notice boards in English. Saskia repeatedly suggested that Andy's mum or her installer did read it, but apparently they declined to do so as Andy himself told us that he had to look up Gemsat's number on EOS. It's on the noticeboard including the exclusive deal with Gemsat.  As Andy's apartment is on the same floor the notice board is, it was not a major obstacle to read after being asked several times by Saskia. Gemsats number is there as well. No, this installer knew about the communal dish, but wanted to ignore the clearly published deal.

This message was last edited by max! on 6/21/2008.

Hi Max

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make regarding the door that was broken into. Your paragraph stating, " Someone drilled out the lock on that morning to discover that there were no available slots in the expensive multiswitch installed by Gemsat. They couldn't know that before drilling it open. So it was not a case of breaking while realizing you need an extra key,  but a discovery he could only make after breaking open the door. And clearly it was not a thief otherwise he would have taken the expensive multiswitch, so it was someone who wanted to connect a cable bypassing Gemsat," makes my point even further. Lets say I was the sky guy, if it was me, would I drill a lock in a door illegally to access the area, then realise I had to go to someone afterwards to link to the dish, knowing that I had just damaged communal property. I am not that stupid, maybe he is, who knows, but like Davmunster said, it will be very difficult to prove, unless there was cctv footage or eye witnesses to the event. Just to clear things up for everyone in future, if something like this happens again, if proven, who would be chased for the damage, would it be the owner of the property, or the third party, ie; the sky installer. Has this been written into the community rules. Where can we all get a copy of the community rules?

Regarding the notice board, if you are there on holiday, how many of us actually read it. I know it is a form of communication for the owners, but the point I was trying to make was, seeing as we get no post, how many people make an effort to read the board, normally you are just in a rush to get down to the beach or out for a meal and a beer. For example, in our block, we hardly ever use the gated entrance where the notice board is, because it brings us around the back of the development, and we would have to go all the way around. We just walk through the garage area. I would have thought the majority use their rental cars going in and out, and access their apartments through the garage area and go up in the lift. Even if you are on foot, sometimes its quicker just to go through the small door on the automatic garage door and walk through the garage area.  Maybe an idea would be to put a notice board on the wall beside the door in the garage area that leads to the lift, or even better on the wall outside the lift at garage level, that way there can be no excuses, as you could be reading it whilst waiting for the lift, or even one in the lift. I am just trying to do a bit of brainstorming. Surely I'm not the only one that has idea's to try and improve communication and improvements for the community in general. Has anyone else got ideas that could be discussed at future commitee meeting. I still think sending information to the owners personal email is a good idea, as it is quick, at little or no cost to the community and there can be no denial that the information was not sent to the owner for them to read. The only issue that I can think of would be the language translation. I would have thought a Spanish and English version would be sufficent, taking into account English being a universal language. Not knowing all the nationalities on the development, I would think that it would cover the large majority, most Scandanavians speak good English. Forgive me if I am wrong. How many owners know the rules of the community, I don't. It would not surprise me if the only ones that know the rules are the committee themselves, maybe I am am wrong. The point I am trying to make, is making sure the owners have no excuses, that way everyone knows where they stand. I am not working my backside off 6 or 7 days a week to pay other peoples bills or any damage to the community. I am sure everyone else agrees, but maybe some of these ideas can be discussed to improve communication.

Westport

Max 

The quote below is the most ridiclous thing you have said so far.

"The information that there will be a letter about your and your renters behaviour was informational; it was a decision made by the committee instead of going to the police.  You all expect to me to tell what happens on the committee. I could have told it by PM, but all this info is anyway public thanks to your own post.  "

Can you please make it clear as to whether the above quote refers to our 'renters' or the door Sky box door being damaged. 

If it is the sky door I would rather it go to the police.  When you sent Gemsat away you told them the police were involved so they were unable to obtain the key to the box the first time round.  It now turns out that there were no police involvement so why did you lie?  I also recently been informed that the damage to the box is about 50 euros and I can't believe it has got to this stage over 50 euros but like I have said in other posts I too do not condone damage being done and would like the person responsible to be brought to justice. 

If your quote is regarding our 'renter's behaviour (which is something you have made public for what ever reason and we are only aware of one incident that you alleged someone else had told you about!) as vice president if any of my tennants have been out of order you could of phoned my mother. You know she looks after the apartment for me and you have already admitted you had her card with her number on it. Had you phoned her she would have been there in five minutes and sorted any problem but you have chosen after the door incident to air alleged problem about 'renters' on a message board for all to see. 

I am also tired of you insisting on insulting my mother saying that she is exploiting the apartment without me knowing.  I can assure you that I am fully aware of who is in my apartment and my mother has my full permission to use my apartment anytime she likes.  She (as well as I) are not the type of people who bring problems to any community.  Is this, again, a case of sour grapes as she is controlling my apartment not yourself?

As regards to the supposed threat to you  I have no idea what you mean as I have said in other posts I would like to arrange a meeting with the committee for August and that is what I was referring to when I said face to face (as you already know!).  When has it been right, if it is true!, to issue a formal warning when I have not been given the opportunity to put my case forward to the committee.

Why do you insist on trying to make me and my family look like bad people by  when all we are doing is defending ourselves in response to your barrage of unfounded allegations.






This message was last edited by Andy irwin on 6/21/2008.

Gentlemen or should I say only Men.

Please behave on this board!
And act like gentlemen do, which is not the behaviour I read below !
This board in not here for fights or personal discussions.

If personal fights will go on I will ask the administrator EOS to act on this.
I hope it will not come this far.

Fact is that the there is some damage.
I assume the community will take the responsibility to fix it and continues with the investigation.
And if there is enough prove the President should claim the money from the responsible person.
Untill then:

Please Relax and Behave!!

Best regards,
René

 Westport I think I misunderstand you. These people were standing next to the notice board and Saskia repeatedly said all the information was there. Besides the installer couldn’t know there was no available slot so why would that stop him from drilling open the door?

Andy: maybe my English fails me, but I said ‘We know your parents exploit your apartment on your behalf’ and you twist it so that I accuse your mother of acting behind your back which I don’t think and as far as I know is not the meaning of ‘on your behalf’.

With the letter to you about renters/sky etc I have nothing to do. As I repeatedly said I was opposed to it. I also was not the one who informed the committee about any behaviour of your renters. And no, I can keep repeating it but I have nothing against you or other people who use other services than ours. That doesn’t influence my ideas on the committee.

Finally I didn’t lie. When Gemsat came the president had told me that he was in favour of calling the police but that the final decision would be made on the meeting later that day. That the majority of the committee decided on another course of action is not my fault.

I stop wasting more energy on all of this. Like I said there is a vacancy on the committee as I can’t represent people who think I have a conflict of interests. I suggest that you start discussing how to fulfill the vacancy.

Hi all

I intend to connect to the Gemsat dish. I do not want to go the pay to view route as we do not live in Spain and the monthly subscription, say to Sky, does not appear to be a sensible use of money.

I understand that you can also get freeview from the dish - has anyone bought a set top box (STB) from either Gemsat or from shops in Spain who is happy to offer an opinion ?  Has anyone successfully connected a standard  British STB to the Gemsat system and the STB works properly?


Look forward to your comments

Jenx

Hi Jenx,
The Sky feed that Gemsat will provide in your apartment will be exactly the same as what you have at home so if you have a spare Sky digibox it will work without a problem. If you have a sky subscription at home you can do what I - simple put the card in my pocket pop it into the box in Spain when I get there wait a few seconds while it "searches for listings" and then you even have your local BBC and ITV programmes in Spain. I asked Gemsat about Freeview and they did not recommend the boxes saying I would be better to buy a Sky box as it will get me the freeview channels anyway.

Hi Jenx

Regarding the sky box your are looking to get installed. From what I remember, without your card from the UK, you dont get channel 4 or 5, so bring your UK card. You also dont have to pay any subscription. Gemsat will also put it into your bedrooms, but your will only receive what comes through the box in the living room. All the cables are fed through the walls, so there are no ugly cables along your skirting board. Its a good clean job.

Westport

I have just discovered today that Channel 4, Film4, More4 and E4 have become available Free to Air on the Astra satellite - the technical details are as follows:

Satellite  Astra 2       28.2E
Transponder 73,      Frequency 10.729MHz,  Polarity V,  Symbol Rate   22000 Ksps,  FEC   5/6

When tuned in Channel 4 is listed in the channel listing as "8350" rather than it's correct name however on my box at least it's possible to edit the name and correct this.

I am not familiar with the Sky Box and the steps to take in order to program in the above details for reception of these channels, perhaps the Sky Box will pick them up automatically, however if not rest assured that they can be manually programmed in.  I'm sure GemSat will help with this if necessary.

Just to say we now have Sky TV installed. Gemsat which consisted of two men arrived promptly at the time and date promised. They were extremely nice guys. They were very helpful and took the time to answer all our questions. The whole procedure took less than one hour. We brought out a second hand sky box and bought a Freesat card 20 pounds from sky. You need tp pair the two together in England by just connecting it to your home sky connections ring sky and leave it switched on for 48hours. Then disconnect and put your old Sky box back in place and it will all work fine. We carried the Freesat card in our pocket coming through airport security we were concerned that putting it through the scanner may wipe the card.

SKY DISH -- GOOD NEWS AND BAD NEWS

Phoned gemsat on thursday. Paul arrived Friday. Very nice, proffessional, and helpful. Set up free-to-air box. Job all done in an hour. 

One BIG dissapointment - most of the ITV channels, channel 4, and a few other channels comming up as 'weak' signal or 'no' signal. Which means you DON'T actually have these channels, or you CAN'T watch these channels. And this annoying problem seems to get worse in the evening. Is this because too many people are linked into the satelite dish?

Hi,
The signal splitters include a booster so the number of people tuned in or connected shouldn't make any difference. This is a quality instalation and you should not be experiencing what you describe - there can be a bit of signal interuption in high wind but even that is only for a few seconds. I suspect there is a fault - maybe the booster isn't working - and I suggest you talk to Gemsat about it.