Clover Estates / Procoal

Its been a while since i have looked at this site, basically as I dont think anything has changed.

My understadning is that LFO has not been granted to SMGH
that trying to pursue a return of deposit is likely to be unsuccessful
that very few of the SMGH properties are occupied
that getting a mortagage with any bank except the one underwriting the build/developer in the first place is not possible
that selling the property is unlikely to be successful
that SMGH is a good location, but in a market that is saturated

 

Hence i am waiting until i have to complete, and then look to use it myself and rent to friends and family etc to reduce my costs.

Is anyone setting up or co-ordinating a key- holding cleaningservice?
Is anyone living in already?
Is there internet broadband?
Is the place being maintained satisfactorially?

 

any news welcome in short.

 

 

Paddler

Everything you say is pretty well spot on

1  All owners I have met really are very pleased with what they have including me and had a great week out there recently.

2 The pools and gardens and pools are excellent (apart from a couple of dead Palm trees) and have many recent photos which I can post.

3 With lots more contributing to management fees and a commitee this would  futher help develop the development.

4 From my information I have the developers financial situation is dire because like dozens of  other developments people have not completed

5 Natually deposits will be lost if they do go bust.

7 There are some permanent residence and I am going out in the next few weeks and the key holder issue can be sorted and is a great idea.

8 As with Santa Maria Village these are two very nice developments and will stand the test of time unlke many that are looking rough after only a couple of years.

9 No broadband as far as I am aware but great T.V reception through a digi box.

Dan

 

 

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/1/2008.

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/1/2008.

Hi

Agree with everything you say Just Dan, the urbanisation is well kept despite the lack of residents, we have heard also that the developers are in dire straights due to non completion but that is all we know.

Regarding internet yes this is possible, we have just arranged for one of our clients to get ADSL through Telefonica and we have heard that one of the mobile companies are offering wireless connection.

Debbiep

Paddler With regards to the LFO, the new draft urban plan (PGOU) was made public last summer. The plan provides for the incorporation of Green Hills and many other developments which have been completed for several years, but still don't have a license.the plan will become official when the Town Hall has negociated the finer points of the plan with the Junta de Andalucia (which will involve a necessary degree of dispute, since they are run by opposing political parties). Optimists talk about this spring, others the autumn, it may take even longer to thrash out. So in time, it seems, Green Hills will be in a position to receive its license,but it won't happen tomorrow. In the meantime, the draft PGOU can be downloaded from the Town Hall website, www.marbella.es, including the text which goes into detail about the various categories of legalisation. I also just spent a week at Green Hills. The location is spectacular, the gardens maturing nicely, although I have yet to discover these two dead palms. Ian

 

Hi Debbie

As far as I am aware they are pinning hopes the developments will be made legal soon or its tits up

Ian G

Agree 100% with what you say and now furnished the apartment is also great.

The 2   Palms that didnt make it are in front of Blocks 10 and 11 unless they have come back from the dead ?the the Poppy seads that I spread over the banks didnt even give birth.

N.B did you let a lovely couple with a young child use your apartment a few months back as they had a wonderful time and loved the location.

Regards

Dan

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/5/2008.

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/5/2008.

Dan No, I have not really finished furnishing yet so no visitors yet. Strictly intended as a bolthole for family and friends, no plans to rent it out. I want it to be always available to go there on a moments notice. Ian

I'm still trying reclaim my deposit having made a claim under the Bank Guarantee in July last year which was rejected by the Court even though no ILO has been issued.  I am going to Appeal but my Lawyer tells me that even though the development is illegal, if we lose the Appeal then I have to complete or lose my deposit. I was interested in Mr C's comment that this was not true. Could anyone suggest what next course of action would be open to me if the Appeal fails other than that suggested by my lawyer?

Thanks for any help offered.

Ken Archer

 

Hi Ken

Think I replied on the other tthread  ?

Dan

Hi, I have been permanently resident at Green Hills and have also heard that it looks like the developer will go bust on the next few months. I have bee here for 1.5 years, and yes, its very quite, but for me, all is fine. If I can help at all, please feel free to ask any questions and i will try and get back to you asap. thanks

Hi Elixir,

What do you think will happen to the development if the developer goes bust?

 

Elixir.

What Tish should be saying is what happens to the deposits of all the ones that have refused to complete.when and if the developer goes bust(like dozens of other developerments.)

The same thing has been said now for the past  2 years and the last I heard was the banks were o.k in the fact that the licence will follow and they will have contracts that will need to be completed or deposits lost.

If the developer goes bust we have a property and the rest may have a very expensive bit of paper.

If they wish to complete they .

1 Will have to pay much more due to the exchange rates

2 Will find it much more difficult to get a mortgage when the licence is given which should be soon.

3  Thanks for your offer of help and out again in a few weeks)cant wait

Look for my wife and daughter who will live on the top pool over looking those lovely woodlands.

I will be the one on the terrace getting plastered.

Its a shame that some that have no ibusiness continue to try to damage and devalue our lovely devlopment,its just a case of some being given their money back on the top phase and simple wont let it rest theire.

The same ones have been telling everyone not to compllete.very easy when its not your money.

As her posting once said  SHE IS NOT INTERESTED IN SPAIN,ONLY GREEN HILLS and YEP this is sad. (this ofended Tish and I appologise to her and the forum and re-posted at her request.

Dan

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/27/2008.

Hi all, just following on from Just Dans post and to answer Tish, I agree, in my opinion, all that will happen when and if the developer goes bust, the bank who funded most of the build will take over - Banco de Andalucia. I Guess the deposits will go with the developer when he goes bust as it was paid to them, and not the bank. when it happens, the bank will either give a deadline for those who have not completed and after that period, and will reposes the apartments and then re-sell them - cheaper than original price i'm sure!! When i purchased the property, i used the lawyers Martinez-Echevarria. who were only to happy to sort out the purchase. 2 years on, and when the Occupation License was under question, they sent out letter saying in lose terms we should take take the developer to court as we had a good case of winning. for an extra cost to us of course. Following this I, i consulted a personal friend / lawyer on the matter who after her own investigation informed me there was no reason not to complete, the land was purchased from the electric company from the developer for construction. I believe there is a question on whether it should have been townhouses or apartments - but for us, we was sold it as an apartment with the contract saying the golf course might be or not be built. So we completed in 2006 June. All the electric, water and phone line was installed and up and running in 2 weeks with legal contracts with the suppliers direct. 1.5 years on, i am now hearing that the same lawyers are now saying to the clients that they should complete as there is a chance they will loose there money. My overall opinion on this is, Santa Maria, unlike a few of the other developments will be granted the license. as there is little to suggest otherwise. For us, we see it as a long term investment as the current market is not good!! Looking forward to seeing you around the pool. thanks.

Thank you for answering my legitimate question Elixir.   It has been rumoured for some time that the developers could go under.  Hopefully, if the LFO is to be issued it will be before this happens. I would have thought that if there is the chance the LFO will soon be granted then the developers will try and hang in there. Perhaps then people will feel more comfortable in completing.

 If the Developer does go to the wall, then as you rightly say the Bank will have the first charge on the remaining 155/60  apartments. Even so without the LFO, even the bank cannot sell them at any price. I know approx 46 people who are not willing to complete on these apartments. Last week-end there was a conference call. When the question was put,"If an LFO is granted who will complete?" It was a resounding "NO ONE". They would put it down to a hard lesson learned.

On a brighter note, most people have put down 30% deposit. They still have in their bank accounts 70% of the purchase price. With falling prices mooted at between 20/30% they could still come out on the winning side, especially with the currency situation as it is.

I cannot see the Bank pursuing all these people through the Courts to complete. It could take years and my guess is they will want to sell them ASAP. They could not do that if there was litigation in process. They will sell them on if and when the LFO is issued by the Town Hall.

Meanwhile, whatever the problems surrounding Green Hills, it is a pleasant  enough environment to enjoy. It beats the UK in January!

We bought on the Upper level. It took us 3 years to get our money back and two Court cases!! ( we have one more Court case pending)That was with a Bank Guarantee. Along the way I have met so many lovely people ,who have  now become friends.  They would have been delightful neighbours. It is a shame we will not all be enjoying a glass of wine together at Green Hills.

Regardless of our experience we still enjoy our holidays in Spain. We havemany friends who have successfully retired there. We are always on the lookout for that very legal, very desirable, home in the sun...but I think we will wait awhile!

 

 

 

 

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/26/2008.

This message was last edited by Tish on 1/26/2008.

Tish

Did you write this all yourself.  (This offended Tish and I appologise to her and to the forum and reposted at her request)

There are thouands of people on many developments who will not or cannot complete on properties.

Its up to indivuals if they wish to loose 100,000 + euros and I respect each decision they make as there is no easy answer and is based on a case by case basis and advice given.

At the moment anyone that has completed has lost nothing  and if the market drops by 20 to 30% tthey will still have lost nothing until if if they have to sell.

The market will return someday if it does indeed fall

Yes we owners are aware that we will have difficulty selling until the licence is issued as will around 50,000 other properties,however thanks for reminding us.

 Elixir ? We also share the experiences of the same solicitors and the less said about them the better.

Yes could be right about the Banks selling tem off cheap but the last I heard is that a large  equity firm is sitting and waiting to pounce.(thats why everything is being kept so immaculate)and thats why the Banks are being very calm with the situation.

I too am looking longer term not that I have much option and the ones thing its in a lovely area and  its location.location,location.

Dan

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/28/2008.

Listen & learn Jim!

 

Tish

I learn everyday

The situation is really very simple in as much as those that wish to not complete loose 100,000 euros NOW and I am the last person to say if they are right or wrong.

Those that do complete may loose 100,000  too if the market drops and if they have to sell as none of us know just whats going happen but at the moment we have lost NOTHING

Perhaps this is a little difficult for you to understand but it is our decisions based on what we feel is the correct one in our case...

Me  and many others are now taking a longer view and if the market falls,if the deveoper goes bankrupt.if the development does not get a licence,if the devopment gets demoloished we will deal with iit  as and when it happens

If none of these thngs happen then in years to come when things return to normal this is one of the best areas on the Costa del Sol and we are hopeful that we will not only not loose anything we may have a return on momies invested.

In the meantime we will either rent,the properties out,live in them or use as a holiday home for family and freinds.

Is it not simple for some to respect our decisions like we respect others that wish to take that take whichever course they take.to complete,not complete or ,take legal action

Dan

 

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/27/2008.

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/27/2008.

Jim,

Strange as it may seem to you, I have not the slightest interest in what you do with your apartment, or why you bought it, if you win, loose or whatever. Other people are not interested in your speculation of whether they will or will not loose money. For some reason best known to yourself, you have a compulsive obsessive disorder targeted at me,  a weird fixation, because you appear to blame me for your woes, try to humiliate me, belittle everything I say  as though I know nothing, on both the forums that I am a member of.   No matter what I write you come along and deride what I say.  You can tell the world my knowledge is out of date, that I have no interest in Spain, and any other fabrication that comes into  to your confused mind. I really don't care. If it makes you happy to continue in that vein ad infinitum , Fine. Whatever floats your boat. This has gone on for what? Two years now? Nothing  you say or do is going to affect the outcome of GH. Not even you can be instrumental in that.  Nor can I. We will all have to wait and see. 

Again, I see you have edited the derisory remarks you made to me in your earlier posts.  At least have the courage of your convictions to let your remarks remain on the forum.

 

To further show Just Dan/Jims  level of confusion he is calling me Claire.  I am , for the record,Tish. (EOS)

 

Tish

This is a thread  for Santa Maria Green Hills.

I have a property on Santa Maria Green Hills and an overall extensive love and interest in Spain itself and in this we appear to diifer.

The reason I deleted the one or two light hearted comments were for the reason that you would take them in a way not intended and the last thing I wanted was to ofen you in anyway. ( I have put them back and made an appology for others to take their opinion on this)

We differ in as much as I have a love of Spain.the majority of Spanish people and I have a second home in Santa Maria Green Hills that I and many others feel that its had more than its fair share of bad press due to the actions of a few.

Spain is going through a very difficult period in its history and we really do need to ensure that as far as each individual development is concerned we have up to date informayion both good and bad as this involves the people with tangible interests in them.

I am fortunate that I can obtain up to date legal information and and almost everything to do with a few developments in Elviria and in paticular Green Hills.

This is past on to the benefit of people involved in Green Hills free and without any alternative motivation from my solicitor than to help and help make up for the action of the corrupt within her proffesion.

I will continue to correct postings that s directed aginst my second home to the benefit of me,my neighbours and those with vey difficult decisions to make (this I have done again).

This I know has been of great benefit to many as it has either eased concerns of negative and incorrect information being posted which has caused more worry when perhaps it need not,

I know that my solicitor has been of great help to those that I have recommended her to any many on this forum will confirm this and at least two that were previous going to loose their deposit have now decided to complete and are very happy they were given the facts.

This surely is what a thread on a development on Eye of Spain is all about

Those of the 40 or so that wish to not complete have my total respect and I would love the opportunity for them to join in the forum as this development and this thread relates to them direct.

I understand and fully respect that you have no interest of my situation at Green Hills but ask you please respect my willingness to give my time freely in doing what I can to either try to bulid a community and get my neighburs both present and future brought together.

My only interest in you or anyone is when I feel that comments or information is posted  which is incorrect and has a direct effect on me or  theGreen Hills development be it 1 year.2.years or 10 years.

My interest is with the future of SANTA MARIA GREEN HILLS and yours is with the history of SANTA MARIA GREEN HILLS perhaps we both should respect that.

Dan

I have altered  my posings to read Tish and appolgise for getting the name wrong,?

 

 

 

This message was last edited by Just Dan on 1/28/2008.

You know what Jim, I could blow all credibility of your last post apart, I have neither the time nor the inclination.  It just feeds your obsession. I'm sure any intelligent person will be able to see through it too. How you can recommend your lawyer who let  you to complete on an off plan property with  a suspended building licence and no LFO beggars belief.   But then you are an ex CDS estate agent  and currently the same in the UK. Scary.