| The Comments |
i dont but am amazed how needlessly offensive non smokers i will never meet are whilst claiming to be all lovely reckon you will all pass on from whinging and depression long before i smoke myself to death :)
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Amep75, beware of the compound effects
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effects of what whinging i reckon reading junk has a worse effect
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normansands; you lose the thread. Smoking in offices has been banned for some time; I have no objection. We are discussing BARS. Nobody puts a gun to your head to use a smoking bar. Just use a non-smoking bar.Your daughter by the way, would also return from work 'stinking and dirty' if she had to use the London Underground to commute (if my memory serves me correctly).
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Well, I feel very sorry for the bar and restaurant businesses here at the moment. As if the financial climate weren't enough, now there are even less customers due to the time of year. What a stupid time to activate the ban. I'm a smoker, agree with not smoking in restaurants but would normally go to bars and out to eat in all weathers but there's absolutely no point while this cold and wind is around if I've got to freeze to death in a 2-sided awning. I doubt very much that the non-smokers will have made up the trade for these guys....and it's not their fault! Very sad.
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Well said Norman. Totally agree.
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It's like watching the death throes of the creationists and flat-earthers and all other science-deniers to read recent posts from the nicotine addicts threatened with having their freedom to indulge their addiction curtailed. I remember when I gave up twenty years ago how the nicotine spoke to me and gave me loads of good reasons why I should have another ciggie. Of course passive smoking kills and of course you should not be allowed to kill others by inflicting your addiction on them.
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dont know what normans problem is the law is on his side like i said he just seems to like to whinge about people in other countries could he be a racist that is illegal in uk too
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jek
yes, the power of addiction sadly, but thankfully those like you with a strong will can beat it. The rest will no doubt carry on living in denial and probably never know the quality of life they could of had through being fitter, healthier and richer,.......and smelling better!
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Just to state that it doesn't bother me either way really but i personally think it will kill off a lot of bars here.
| Written by Mireille Toddington |
| Monday, 24 January 2011 14:42 |
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 One month into the ban on smoking in public and there has been mixed reaction across Spain. The most vocal kickback has been voiced in Madrid where the hospitality industry is predicting a drop in sales of one percent or 1,228 million euros and 14,000 jobs. It is claiming an “overnight collapse in leisure and entertainment” and that the change in social habits and consumption has been dramatic, as has its effect on businesses. The affects of the ban has been described overall as a brutal downturn with extremely grave consequences.
This week The CoastRider has visited a number of bars and restaurants on the Orihuela Costa to find out from owners and customers if the ban on smoking has affected them. So, is the ban on smoking a flaming cheek or a healthier option?
Spud Murphy´s at Playa Flamenca Commercial Centre imposed a smoking ban inside the restaurant and under the outside awning when the first restrictions were brought into effect in 2006. Owner Lisa said: “There has been no change for us this time round. When we first made the changes though we received positive feedback from smokers and non-smokers, who preferred to eat in a smoke free restaurant.”
Marie and John were enjoying a cigarette outside Picasso at Playa Flamenca Mercadona. This bar used to be busy and smoky and a popular place for Spanish residents to relax. Now, however, the restaurant was completely empty. The only tables taken were three outside where customers were enjoying a cigarette but none of them were eating. Marie said: “We have lived here for a while but were used to the no smoking ban in the UK anyway, so it hasn´t made any difference to us.” John added: “Most times we sit outside anyway, at least you can do that in Spain and it’s not cold and wet, or at least most of the time it’s not.”
Morgan’s Bar, Eagle´s Nest, is lucky in that it has a covered outside awning, but with open sides. This provides somewhere for customers to smoke if they wish to. Bar regular Dave Allen prefers to sit inside, rather than out, and has found the ban has had a positive effect on him. He said: “I have always sat at the bar to read the paper. I would usually get through about three cigarettes during that time. Now I read the paper and don’t have one. If you can smoke you will, if you can’t, then you don’t – it’s as simple as that. I know I can go outside but I don’t bother.” Morgan’s owner Trevor Massey said: “Luckily we are not in the UK, so going outside for a cigarette is hardly a hardship. Before January there were some people saying that once the ban came in they would not be going out as much but in reality I don’t think this has happened. “In the summer most of the holiday makers are from the UK and so they will be used to not smoking inside anyway. It also makes the dining area more pleasant.” Morgan’s Bar customer Carl Wilkinson said: “We will have to wait and see what happens when it rains. Either smokers will smoke less or go out less. I think it’s too early to say yet.”
Weather-ing the ban
At the La Fuente Centre, Viva la Vida bar owner Paul also said they had not noticed any difference in customer numbers. Outside customers sat in the sun enjoying the warmth and a cigarette. Customer Bob Burdell said: “There have been a few chilly nights recently where I chose to stay in because I didn’t want to keep coming out into the cold to have a cigarette. I think we will stay in more when the weather is wet or cold.”
At Poco Loco in the citrus Centre bar owner Jim is in a lucky position. The awning on his terrace has patio heaters, a roof and sides and so offers complete protection and comfort for his customers. However, because it is not attached to the bar – there is a public walkway running between the bar and the awning – this is not classed as an infringement on the law.
So, at least here on the Costa Blanca it appears that the ban on smoking in public places has had a negligible effect on smokers or businesses. There certainly are not huge amounts of profits being lost or people losing their jobs because of it. Customer numbers might fall slightly if we experience two or three weeks of rain, but that’s about all. In addition, there are lots of people, smokers and non-smokers, who will now eat out more because they will be able to enjoy a meal without breathing in other people’s second hand smoke.
As for Spain as a nation, in terms of its GDP the picture may not be as rosy. The number of companies and jobs within the Spanish hospitality industry make it the most important sector in the country. Spain is the only one of the 27 EU countries, it rely on this sector so heavily. Therefore, comparing the effects of the smoking ban in the UK, Ireland or any other EU country, to Spain is irrelevant. Only time will tell what effects the smoking ban will reap on the economy of Spain and indeed if its obstinate population will indeed bow to being told where they can and cannot smoke a cigarette.
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www.taylorlandandpropertygroup.co.uk
still here after all these years!
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Actually, I agree with Norman!
elcantel,
1984: Smoking banned on London Underground trains.
1985: Smoking ban extended to those stations that are wholly or partly underground.
1987: London Underground smoking ban extended to entire network following the King's Cross station fire, in which 31 people died.
With regards to the topic of this thread, and the intended discussion of the Smoking Ban in Spain:
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one!
Aristotle wrote:
"Even supposing the chief good to be eventually the aim for the individual as for the state, that of the state is evidently of greater and more fundamental importance both to attain and to preserve. The securing of one individual's good is cause for rejoicing, but to secure the good of a nation or of a city-state is nobler and more divine."
This message was last edited by TechNoApe on 26/01/2011.
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www.andalucianstyle.com
Me, the Mrs and Rosie too! But we'll never, ever forget our Tyler!
We support AAA Abandoned Animals Marbella - Do you?
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yes but the london underground still smells
given all the smoking bans you quote then you and others are complaining about something that doesnt exist!!
seems you just want to vent your spleen rather than doing something useful
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amep75,
Who said I am complaining about the Smoking Ban!
I'm not!
Indeed I am all for it!
Please read my earlier replies!
And yes! The London Underground does have a peculiar whiff, however my hair and clothes never got saturated with that smell, nor my did it affect my health in the manner that smoking, actively or passively, would do!
"seems you just want to vent your spleen rather than doing something useful"
I leave that to others!
When I lived in North Devon, I was instrumental in helping my community achieve a Broadband Internet Connection. One of the first in North Devon!
I uncovered an unknown shipwreck on a local beach, and encouraged the local council that it could be of historic interest and that they should do something about it, which they did and now pieces of history are in the local museum!
Now I live in Spain, and I give of my time freely on EOS in order to help other people achieve some of their problems and/or ambitions.
This message was last edited by TechNoApe on 26/01/2011.
_______________________
www.andalucianstyle.com
Me, the Mrs and Rosie too! But we'll never, ever forget our Tyler!
We support AAA Abandoned Animals Marbella - Do you?
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oh soreeeeee silly me i thought you were coplaing about smoking not the ban
have you noticed how the smokers dont complain about the ban very strange how non smokers still go on about smokers even though they are not affected by it anymore
anyway alcohol is a bigger problem which nobody does anything about!!
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oh soreeeeee silly me i thought you were coplaing about smoking not the ban
have you noticed how the smokers dont complain about the ban very strange how non smokers still go on about smokers even though they are not affected by it anymore
anyway alcohol is a bigger problem which nobody does anything about!!
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"have you noticed how the smokers dont complain about the ban very strange how non smokers still go on about smokers even though they are not affected by it anymore"
Not sure which side is complaining most, however neither are going to win!
What's done is done!
Which is what I said in an earlier post.
I'm not complaining about smoking in general, or the fact that people smoke and am all for smoking bans in confined public places.
I think this thread is long past it's bed time to be honest! In fact... way past!
And as you said:
"anyway alcohol is a bigger problem which nobody does anything about!!"
Agreed!.
This message was last edited by TechNoApe on 26/01/2011.
_______________________
www.andalucianstyle.com
Me, the Mrs and Rosie too! But we'll never, ever forget our Tyler!
We support AAA Abandoned Animals Marbella - Do you?
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Georgia,
Whether or not it will kill off many bars here remains to be seen. But there is widespread acceptance that killing people through secondary smoking is too high a price to justify someone's continued employment.
"At Poco Loco in the citrus Centre bar owner Jim is in a lucky position. The awning on his terrace has patio heaters, a roof and sides and so offers complete protection and comfort for his customers. However, because it is not attached to the bar – there is a public walkway running between the bar and the awning – this is not classed as an infringement on the law." If it has a roof and three or more sides,smoking is against the law. Interesting thought though - if he stuck a circular tent on his terrace, how many sides would that count as.
TechnoApe,
Aristotle and his "good of the many" line has been contradicted by many since his day who argue that the good of the many cannot be achieved at the expense of harm to the few. My favourite is John Stuart Mill and his rule of harm which I think has a closer relevance to this topic - (I paraphrase) "the state is only justified to intervene to restrict the liberty of the individual where it is to prevent harm to others." As in smoking in public. Which is why I hope that in a few years time we shall see the logical extension of the smoking ban to all public places.
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most people drink in moderation, and that is not a problem and can even improve health.. Smoking, even in moderation kills many people and always ruins health. Can it be any clearer???
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Oh goodstich44 i am dissapointed in your last comment. How many people drink and drive and cause accidents and kill people, how many people get drunk and end up hurting others willing or not willingly.
Both smoking and drinking can kill and so can crossing the road!
I must agree with Technoape, time to let this one go to bed, its the never ending story.
Joan
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have you never seen the news where thwer are drunken fights in the streets!!
do you not remember george best who drank himself to death??
and he is not the only one
but then if you live in the uk i suppose you need to drink just to put up with the weather
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