smoking ban

Once this ban is introduced the real problem will start when the warmer weather comes. Unlike the UK where there's not much call to go outside except in the height of summer , here bars & restaurants that already  don't allow smoking inside but have outside areas get complaints from the moaners that they want to sit outside but can't because of the smokers !! You 'll never win.

We had all these arguments in UK years ago and although a few pubs/bars struggled for a while, their regulars kept on coming despite the ban.  I agree that it all depends on observance and bar owners, police etc abiding by the law (which they may not do), but the state has to keep trying.  They still have to remind people outside hospitals in UK but businesses have done well.  Spain as much as anywhere cannot afford the financial time-bomb of elderly smokers needing intensive medical care.

Must go and drink my addictive redbush tea now!!!

 We had all these arguments in UK years ago and although a few pubs/bars struggled for a while, their regulars kept on coming despite the ban.

That may be true in the cities where pubs will always be well patronised but smaller villages, who relied on a smaller catchment, weren't so luck.  Two of the pubs in my village have closed due to a lack of custom.  One other has gone all food boutique type and concentrates on meals. Most working mens clubs have cut back or closed with even the Trimdon Working Mens Club in Sedgefield (Tony Blairs old constituency) closing for good.  The British Legion in the village next to me now only opens on Friday and Saturday instead of all week.  In each case, the smoking ban has been quoted as partially responsible.

The Netherlands has just become the first European country to reverse the smoking ban.  Mind you, they did have the anomaly that you could smoke dope in coffee bars but not tobacco.  You had to go outside or you'd be arrested.  If you took the wrong fag out, you could be arrested for smoking dope in public. See Here

 Bobaol

Very interesting article in the Telegraph about the smoking in Holland, I’m amazed that any European country has changed the law, but fair play to them. In fairness to Spain they tried to introduce something similar here the first time round, ie personal choice!! – You have smoking and no smoking bars and restaurants, you takes your choice.

It seems to me that one of the main problems about smoking in Spain is that the most popular or good bars and restaurants allow smoking and the no smoking ones are empty and without atmosphere so of course all the non smokers want to go there and then just complain about the smoke!

S

I would think it will put some off for a while, but I hope the bars would gain in the longer term when smoking becomes accepted by most as a bad thing to do?  Most people I know wouldn't go in a pub that allowed smoking now, but not long ago they probably would have put up with it?. 

Any moves to get people to give up smoking and take up some sort of exercise will save many lives and much suffering.

Hi, this whole argument confuses me .I spend most of my time in Scotland (lets all agree a very cold climate ) and yet the smoking ban is working really well . People just accept that if they want to smoke they go outside simples!!!!! . I and many smokers are fine with this as even as smokers the thick smoked filled bars of yesteryear are too much .(The only objectors are the publicans as they seem to think  the ban is destroying trade . I would say it is the recession but there you go ! )

I am  delighted with the ban and think it is the best thing that has ever happened .I am delighted as my 18 year old is just starting to venture into pubs , student unions etc and I could not bear for her to be in a smokey atmosphere (I never smoked at home )

What I find really weird  is that every time I am in Spain or Mallorca every one especially publicans go out of their way to tell me it is OK to smoke where I am when I would much prefer to go outside and not bother anyone with my habit . Strange but true . I even had an expat in a restaurant thank me for having the decency to smoke outside .How bizarre to me it is the norm .

I can only take it from the smoking ban  threads that what you are all objecting to is people smoking in outside dining areas.  This is not acceptable  and smokers should move to an area where no one is eating and where they are not bothering anyone .Regards to all have a smoke free Christmas ,JA

 Totally agree with you, Julie Anne.  I reckon all restaurants (or anywhere people are eating) should be smoke free whether inside or out.  A Chinese restaurant near me has smoking in one half and non-smoking in the other.  Although they have excellent extractor fans, it doesn't work and it is obvious when people in the smoking bit light up.  The only place it works is another Chinese in El Galan which has a totally enclosed, separate room for smokers.  

It has been said that only about 25% of people smoke now, whether in UK or Spain.  Whichever way, once smoking is totally banned, the pub will lose 25% of its trade.  Restaurants probably not but smokers just out for a drink will avoid it and stay at home.  Pubs closing down, unfortunately, started before the recession kicked in.  Even though I gave them up a while back, it doesn't bother me in Spanish pubs when people smoke, probably because they are a lot more open than those in UK and therefore the smoke is dissipated quicker.  I stopped going up the pub in UK when the smoking ban came in.  I still don't go because it has now become a habit not to go and I enjoy stopping in with friends to have a drink rather than try and be heard over the noise of the students in the only pub left in my village.  Oh, and the karaoke which seems to follow them everywhere.

Taken from the press:

"The bill passed by parliamentary commission calls for transforming all bars and restaurants into no-smoking zones, bringing Spain in line with the European Union's strictest anti-smoking nations and many U.S. states that bar smoking in enclosed public places. It's expected to pass the Senate and become law on Jan. 2.

The law also will make Spain a tougher place to smoke than many other European countries where bars and restaurants are still allowed to have smoking sections, and will prohibit smoking in outdoor places such as playgrounds and the grounds of schools and hospitals.

The current law put in place in 2006 prohibits smoking in the workplace, and workers puffing away just outside their office buildings are a common sight."

"The lower house ( congress )  passed it & sent it to the upper house ( senate ) who disagreed , added modifications like 30% of bar areas for smokers & other things like delay of implementation  & sent it back to the congress."

The last I heard was that the Health Minister disregarded this as another attempt to delay the ban, and Zapatero's Government are pressing ahead with the ban as proposed!

If and when it will come into effect is still anyone's guess, however the unmodified bill still suggests 2nd January 2011.

That paragraph TechnoApe has put in red is just about as confusing as it gets! I reckon it's all still up in the air - and probably in the lungs of  passive smokers like me for some time yet.

 my local has said june 2011 at the earliest.

I am not familiar with the Parliamentary procedures in Spain (but would be interested to learn from those on here like the lawyers who certainly are); but in the UK, the House of Lords (upper house) must consider all proposed primary legislation (Bills) and may propose changes which the House of Commons (lower house) must consider.  The Lords used to be able to veto a Bill but now it only has power to delay a Bill by up to two years.  After the Bill's stage of Commons Consideration of Lords' Amendments comes Third Reading (in the lower house), which can be taken immediately after the vote on the Lords amendments, and then the Bill is sent to Buckingham Palace for Royal Assent.  The Bill then becomes an Act and can come into force immediately or later.

In the Spanish lower house, a PSOE led coalition has a majority.  In the upper house, the PP has a majority.  So it is no surprise that the upper house should oppose anything Zapatero proposes; and it will be no surprise if the lower house throws out the upper house's proposed changes.  If the Spanish follow a similar procedure to the UK, the proposals are likely to pass into law and come into effect on 2 January - provided that there is time for the Parliamentary procedures to be followed given how close we are to Christmas.  But if that timetable is missed, it is unlikely to be by very much.

The issue then is enforcement.  My own view is that the government has gone to a lot of trouble to tighten up the law and will not accept the local old bill turning a blind eye.  But it is Spain so I won't be putting any money on it. 

Amusing but true !!!! The only bar left in the UK  where it is legal to smoke !!!!!!! The bar in the house of commons ??????

julie anne

16 Dec 2010 01:43

Amusing but true !!!! The only bar left in the UK  where it is legal to smoke !!!!!!! The bar in the house of commons ??????

Yes, quite correct. The scum & the criminals can legally smoke whilst the people paying for it have to stand out in the cold. & the same here in Spain !!

TechnoApe - why is it an offence for a car driver to use a mobile phone in a car but not to use at least one hand to smoke a cigarette?  And what can be worse for a child than to have to sit in the back seat of a car while both parents smoke in the front seats?  

The fact is that the new law will make it an offense to smoke in a car when children are passengers.  Policing this may prove difficult, as the current seat belt and baby seat laws are widely disregarded and the police turn a blind eye.

With regard to bar owners 'bribing' police with a few drinks, I would point out the error of their ways, and refuse to pay my bill if they do not comply with the law.  There is always the complaints book as a last resort.  It is time they got the message.  Allowing 25% of the population to ruin the comfort, and health, of the other 75% is not democracy  is dictatorship. I guess we will still have to run the gauntlet of the smokers who stand in the automatic doors of shopping malls, to enable their pollution to enter the building, this should be banned like it will be in hospital grounds.

As for smoking areas - bit like having a peeing area in a swimming pool!

.........but you don't have to breath in the pee

You have to hold a mobile phone to your ear which you don't do with a cigarette . It's the same as removing your hand to change gear.  Speaking on it is the problem , whether hands -free or not , It takes your concentration away from the road exactly the same as speaking to passengers in the vehicle. What's the difference between someone smoking in a car & smoking in th e house with children in ?  There's more danger on a hot day in a vehicle that has been left parked in the sun & then you get in & turn on the A/c . The plastics in modern vehicles ,exposed to sunlight  leach toxins & carcinogenic vapours which are circulated in the enclosed space & are far more damaging than 2nd hand cigarette smoke & are highly concentrated. You should open the windows until the temp. drops before using the a/c but they're not banning that are they.

As to refusing to pay the bill, you're not in the UK, you'll be arrested  , no one will see anyone smoking will they ? They're not going to fall out with the GC .

Fortunately our new Hipermercado is open to the sky right up to the entrance to the food store & the hospitals have no grounds , you're in the street as soon as you step outside.

The difference is the kids can move away from the smoke, they are not confined where they have no freedom of choice.  The plastics in the car are a whole other issue and impossible to avoid, unlike the deadly chemical contained in second hand smoke.

As the current anti-smoking law stands small bars that allow smoking are required to ban children from the premises, I have never seen this happen.

The Spanish have a reputation as devoted and caring parents, yet they smoke all over thier babies, even new borns.

I recently saw a family load a new TV on to the rear seat of thier car, they strapped it in, packed cushions around it to prevent damage, then Dad got in the driving seat, Mum in the front passenger seat, toddler on her lap with no restraints - they both lit up cigarrettes before driving off.  The TV was safe at least!

regarding your quip about lack of evidence when refusing to pay - Mobile phones have cameras.!

 I think we are in danger of labelling all smokers as evil,dirty,terrible parents with no regard for anyone else.

I smoke, i wish i didn't but will power is not one of my strong points and i have tried every option under the sun to quit.

Just for the record, and on the behalf of many of my friends that smoke,both Spanish and English, i have never smoked around my children,i never smoke in my car,in any house i have ever owned, i never smoke in restaurants and won't go in a smoky bar when i have my children with me.

I live in Spain so unlike many of the people campaigning to stop smoking here,it does affect me.

I really do not know why such a contentious issue keeps getting dragged up (pardon the pun) on here, it really is just an excuse for people to regurgitate the same comments and dust off their soapbox.

The Netherlands and Belgium have just removed the smoking ban and returned to normal,they must have had a reason for this.

The ideal solution anywhere in the world is to have smoking bars for the smokers and non smoking bars for the non smokers.

The dirty smokers wont infect the non smokers and the non smokers would be free to continue to moan about the dirty lot in the bar next door?!.

It is very very simple,a big sign on the door,you then get to choose very simply before entering.simple,choice, and we can all live together happily ever after.

If you are a Liverpoll fan you don't go a stand in the Stretfrod end so surely it must be that simple????!!!!

Failing that, can we next start a thread headed "Religion,which is the best??" and "Politics,please discuss"..........after all we all get on so well just lately we could do with some inciteful discussion?

Live and let live?

That will be all.

waterdog

I know many won't agree, but I thinks there's a denial thing going on here. If people really considered the damage to not only their lungs, but their heart their general fitness, defence against illness etc... plus their wallet!,  I don't know if many would carry on smoking?.  We all know there's dangers in many other things that we can't avoid like chemicals in every day items , and of course the sun, but most do what they can to prevent damage where possible. Not so with smoking?, though of course the addiction has a big hand in this.

At least most smokers on here respect other people's wish to look after their health by smoking outside, not around children etc. In a free world that's probably the best we can hope for, and  as long as strictly adhered to and harsh penalties for those who abuse others wishes to avoid cancer and lung disease where possible then it's hard to see another solution?

Goodstitch  You live in Northampton!   Try living in Spain for over a decade before you comment.  In the Uk you have a ban and enjoy going out for meals in a smoke free atmosphere.  Here the minority rules.  We love dining out but are fed up with having evenings ruined by inconsiderate smokers who consider it their right to smoke whenever and wherever they like.  Apart from the health issues, the sore eyes the tickly throat, there is the problem of smelly clothes and hair after a night out.  We do not have a choice because there are no non smoking bars or restaurants in Spain, despite the 2006 law.  The law allowed for choice, but it has turned out to be a choice that favours only the 25% of smokers - call that democtratic?  Hopefully the new law will have teeth.