smoking ban

joanmalaga

just fact Joan. Of course people die from many other things. I would never deny that. We all have to cross a road, drive, and all the other day to day risks, but we don't have to damage ourself or encourage cancer and bad health in others caused by smoking. Your choice of course, but please don't be another in denial of the recked lives and misery caused by something nobody needs, but everyone can do without if they are honest with themselves?. The devestation caused by drink-driving/violence of course comes in to that category, but that's for another thread and it  doesn't change the facts about smoking.

goodstich44

Hello again. Your latest post includes an interesting word ie.'choice'.

So what's wrong with my argument that you can exercise 'choice' by using a non-smoking bar instead of a smoking bar?

Do you and others have some divine right to regulate 'choices'? Please advise as to how those of us who do not 100% agree with you, join this divinity.

The Governments of those countries that ban smoking in public places are not withdrawing the 'freedom of choice' for someone who wishes to smoke, they are however stopping those that do smoke from doing so, where it would affect the health of others

If on the other hand they banned the production of tobacco and made selling it illegal, which I don't believe will ever happen, then:

a) The Government will be removing the freedom of choice from an individual.

b) A new crime wave would begin with illegal production and black market sales.

I suppose you could liken this to the Gun Laws in the United States, which it stipulates:

"A right to bear arms."

And yet even in the US they have banned smoking from public places (although I think in some states you can smoke in certain public places).

People kill other people with Guns, which is against the law as is killing someone else with your passive smoke!

Again, don't get me wrong! I am not against people smoking, or indeed owning a fire arm, however when either is used to try and kill me, then I do object - quite rightly so!

If anyone wants to smoke themselves to death, or drink themselves to death, or even blow their own head off before the smoke or alcohol ingestion kills them, then that individual right should not be removed - and nobody is removing that right - other than killing yourself, which is illegal.

The later I think is wrong (in certain circumstances).... but that is for another thread!

What a crazy world we live in!

However, would you like on your conscience that someone dies as a direct result from your actions?

I would say your answer would be no!

That is why it is now illegal to smoke in public bars, as someone would eventually die from cancer which started with the inhalation of passive smoke from your cigarette!

This ban is just an extension from of banning smoking on all forms of public transport, enclosed shopping precincts, cinemas... the list goes on!

I don't seem to remember public outcry then... but stop people from having a fag with their pint... tantamount to sacrilege!

Everyone has the right to smoke, nobody is taking that away from anyone!

And you can still have your pint, and smoke, you just have to step outside!

What's wrong with that?

Goodstitch – what’s wrong with your argument that you should be allowed to smoke in smoker bars is that one of the driving forces in the new legislation was to bring bar and restaurant workers into line with all other workers in Spain who enjoy a smoke-free workplace. The legislation allows smokers to form private smokers’ clubs if they have a need to congregate in smoke-filled rooms to feed their addiction. Go there and die in peace.

jek

If I understand you correctly; you will shortly start a new thread on the need to ban alcohol from bars etc. as it is the most harmful of drugs.

Perhaps I'm not following your argument; I am on my 2nd small beer of the day.

The thread is titled "Smoking Ban" and we seem to have moved on....new thread required.

Just a final point on the Smoking Ban and bars closing; again a different argument. Perhaps somebody wants to start a new thread regarding lack of expendable income and the effects on bars. The same arguments were regurgitated in the UK when the smoking ban came in. Bars had already been closing for years as taxes on drinks increased, and peoples available expenditure waned. The clever proprietors re-invented themselves by offering more to the public, whilst still providing outdoor areas to smoke. The badly run bars just.....closed.

The thread is titled "Smoking Ban" and we seem to have moved on....new thread required.

Just a final point on the Smoking Ban and bars closing; again a different argument. Perhaps somebody wants to start a new thread regarding lack of expendable income and the effects on bars. The same arguments were regurgitated in the UK when the smoking ban came in. Bars had already been closing for years as taxes on drinks increased, and peoples available expenditure waned. The clever proprietors re-invented themselves by offering more to the public, whilst still providing outdoor areas to smoke. The badly run bars just.....closed.

'

More could be done to prevent the early deaths of up to 50,000 people each year hastened by air pollution, MPs say.

A Commons Environmental Audit Committee report said failure to reduce pollution had put an "enormous" cost on the NHS and could cost millions in EU fines.

It said the UK should be "ashamed" of its poor air quality which was contributing to conditions such as asthma, heart disease and cancer.

The government accepted more could be done and would consider the report.

'Invisible killer'

Pollutants such as ozone, nitrogen oxides and "particulate matter" - tiny particles - from transport and power stations have been blamed for contributing to early deaths.

Particulate matter is estimated to reduce people's lives by an average seven to eight months, while in pollution hotspots vulnerable residents, such as those with asthma, could be dying up to nine years early, the report says.

Air pollution also leads to damage to wildlife and agriculture, with ground-level ozone estimated to reduce wheat yields in the south of Britain by 5% to 15%.

EAC chairman Tim Yeo said: "Air pollution probably causes more deaths than passive smoking, traffic accidents or obesity, yet it receives very little attention from government or the media.

"In the worst affected areas this invisible killer could be taking years off the lives of people most at risk, such as those with asthma."

The EU is now considering fines!!!

elcantal

yes, I think this is a much bigger problem than those in power want to admit?  I see and hear of so many people now with cancer and other serious health issues that it seems more than just the fact we are more aware of it these days.  I really wonder how much is known about various pollution that's kept quiet due to the money/jobs etc involved?. Does that denial ring any bells?

This thread's thrown up lots of good points from all sides about the various ways we go about ruining health and lives, but at least if we start by giving up the things that we don't need on a day to day basis, but we all know encourage cancer and other dreadful health problems, then at least it would show the next generation that we are serious about getting rid of pollution in all it's forms.

Let's not even start on GM Crops and Animal feed additives. I'm sure they have no effects on humans ...........................

well it certainly makes sense to look at all possible causes, and start by getting rid of  types of pollution that are not crucial for day to day living and that we know can cause cancer and other foul health issues.......or we can bury our head and justify our actions by pointing out other wrongs?  That  old cop out is no doubt used by people at all levels for a number of reasons.