smoking ban

Donna, I have left a comment on there!

Sue

In my area, everyone seems to be abiding by the law!

Wonders never seeeees.

Lets face it wether you like it or not its better for your health .......i no

Jeanie

Jeanie

yes, I think most accept that. It will save much misery if adhered to strictly. Good to see Spain using common sense, let's hope it spreads to the other areas responsible for so much wrong?. It needn't mean the slippery slope to a nanny state, but who knows?, sensible laws could be the start of the long road to recovery?

Smokers are going to find it hard, but if they stop for a moment to consider that non-smokers have had it hard for many years having to endure their stale smoke.  Smelly bars and restaurants, even hotel rooms.  Here east of Malaga, where the 2006 legislation was largely ignored, finding a non-smoking establishment was about as easy as finding hens teeth.  In consequence we either did not dine out, or if we did, we came home smelling like we had a twenty a day habit ourselves, hardly fair.  I hope this law will be rigorously enforced, particularyly the clause about smoking in cars with children aboard.  Children need protection from selfish parents. I also hope that when it is violated there willo be heavy fines and that this will be well publicised to deter others. First offence is apparently € 30 for the smoker and a whopping €600 for the bar owner, increasing to a maximum €100,000,00 for repeat offenders. 

 Last night we ventured out for a meal for the first time since returning from Christmas in the UK.  Wow! all the 'WE PERMIT SMOKING ' signs had gone together with the ash trays.  We had a lovely meal, relaxed in the knowledge that we would not have a group of smokers take the next table and spoil it.  As for those who predict mass bar and restaurant closures, in the UK it is only the poor establishments that have suffered, good restaurants and bars are still very very busy.  The grotty little litter strewn bars in Spain will need to sharpen their act and that can only be a good thing.

I'm loving the smoking ban!  A lovely smoke-free coffee was hugely enjoyed this morning. The smokers were enjoying their coffees outside in the sun this morning.

I think that's pretty fair for all.

Justin

So do we Justin.......me and my hubby,

Most people except the fact that you have to smoke out side in the uk .In spain...they will get used to it.

My friends in the uk that smoke say how they have made new friends that they see regular in the smoking area.

Jeanie

Wait 'till the warm weather appears & then they're all moaning that they can't sit outside because all the smokers are their !

waterdog  "The grotty little litter strewn bars in Spain will need to sharpen their act and that can only be a good thing."  What's wrong with them ? It's easier to sweep the floor with a broom than to keep clearing tables & bins. More money used to get spent in these places than you probably spend on a meal a couple of times a week, just from the people who inhabit them 7 days a week.  With your attitude to your hosts you'd be better off back in that ****hole  police -state,they call the UK.

"Wait 'till the warm weather appears & then they're all moaning that they can't sit outside because all the smokers are there".

There's an election next year.  I am very confident that a PSOE victory will lead to a further anti-smoking law that allows non-smokers to enjoy smoke-free air while sitting and drinking or eating outside their favourite bar or restaurant.  May be wishful thinking on my part but given that the anti-smoking laws are based on the premise that smokers kill others with their habit (thousands of people die from secondary, passive smoking every year) then logic demands that non-smokers who want to sit outside have the same protection as inside.  It may kill fewer outside but there is still no justification for smoking in public airspace.

to GUSLOPEZ

I do not have an 'attitude' to my hosts, but I prefer to take my custom where it is appreciated, and if a bar owner thinks he need not provide clean and comfortable premises then he is not making an effort and does not deserve trade.  I eat out more than twice a week and use coffee bars daily, but I am selective.  Standards matter, if what the customers sees is poor, what is it like in the kitchen.  I always check out the toilets in an establishment, no paper, no soap means poor hygiene, time for a quick exit.  You are obviously easily pleased.  It is my money and I spend it where I am well catered for.

There's an election next year.  I am very confident that a PSOE victory will lead to a further anti-smoking law that allows non-smokers to enjoy smoke-free air while sitting and drinking or eating outside their favourite bar or restaurant.  

You are an optimist Jek, this has not happened in the UK, and pub gardens have now become the exclusive domain of the smoker, with a few rare exceptions where no smoking areas are provided.  One day maybe, but not anytime soon I fear.

Toddie

yes, good on them indeed.

guslopez said ......''With your attitude to your hosts you'd be better off back in that ****hole  police -state,they call the UK.''

why be so aggressive to someone who is ultimately praising Spain's new law to protect lives, improve health and most importantly think of others well being ??. There are good reasons to praise and criticise some laws and regulations in any country as clearly shown in many threads on this forum alone.

waterdog  "The grotty little litter strewn bars in Spain will need to sharpen their act and that can only be a good thing." 

I think that you are guilty of applying your UK conditioning to Spanish customs.  In many, many bars it has always been the practice for customers to drop pipa and peanut shells and other rubbish where they sit at the bar and for the bar to require it by not providing ashtrays there for example.  As guslopez says, it's easier to sweep the floor periodically.  And they won't need to sharpen their act because they won't be losing trade anytime soon.  The smoking ban has not reduced trade in countries where it has been introduced and has often resulted in an increase as non-smokers start going to bars again.

I suspect that your choice of bar will not be affected by the smoking ban.  You will continue to avoid the bars where there are nutshells (but no cigarette ends) on the floor; and you will continue to inspect the toilets before deciding whether to drink in those that pass the litter test.  Bet you get invited to a lot of parties eh?

jek,

There's an election next year.  I am very confident that a PSOE victory will lead to a further anti-smoking law that allows non-smokers to enjoy smoke-free air while sitting and drinking or eating outside their favourite bar or restaurant.

Do you seriously think that the PSOE will win the next elections?  Do you know how unpopular they are in Spain?

jek,

There's an election next year.  I am very confident that a PSOE victory will lead to a further anti-smoking law that allows non-smokers to enjoy smoke-free air while sitting and drinking or eating outside their favourite bar or restaurant.

Do you seriously think that the PSOE will win the next elections?  Do you know how unpopular they are in Spain?

" The smoking ban has not reduced trade in countries where it has been introduced and has often resulted in an increase as non-smokers start going to bars again."

I'm sorry but you're just making that up.  Due to falling sales, Holland and Belgium have overturned the smoking ban as so many smaller pubs were having to close.  Germany has reintroduced smoking pubs.

USA reports a decline in sales of between 11% (Maryland) to 50%  (Texas).

Canada reports a decline of 18 to 25% in sales.

Australia.  NSW has its worst fall ever and they reckon it has cost $385 million with sales down 11% to 27%.

Germany says sales have fallen 50% and some 15% of bars have closed.

Ireland says hundreds of rural bars have closed with over 440 few licences being renewed than the year before the ban.

UK says sales are down 7% but the number of bars closing has increased, especially in rural areas.  Some 78% of bars say their customer base has fallen.

I could go on but to say bar trade has not reduced is a ridiculous thing to say.  Yes, there has not been as much money around since the recession but Australia has not been affected by that and they generally have weather good enough to sit outdoors.  The truth is that the many non-smokers who say they now visit pubs has not been enough to mitigate the loss from those who do smoke.  

Yes, it was nice to sit in our local last night without the smoke drifting around but the majority of customers were sat outside still smoking.  It was noticeable how the pub emptied rather rapidly when it got colder despite the gas heaters that had been placed outside.  Come 10 o'clock, there were still 10 die-hards sat outside with only half a dozen left inside.  If we'd stayed any longer we'd have probably outnumbered the bar staff.

(Cue reply quoting anti-smoking websites that show trade hasn't been affected.  The figures above are from an independent website that hasn't got an axe to grind.  In fact, the owners of bar websites put the figures even higher, but then they would).

I agree that is has cost a lot of jobs and caused a number of bars to close down, the funniest though must be in Ireland as in Dublin they have one pub which has a roped off area in the middle of the pub with a matching circualr section cut out of the roof and then raised about 2 foot this not allowing any rain to get in, this is considered as the beer garden where one may smoke!

Going along the lines of losing trade....

Why do you go to the pub? Is it to:

a) smoke

b) drink

c) eat

d) socialise

Now if you find that you honestly answered that question, then does it matter that you can't smoke when you go to the pub, and in order to do so you have to go outside?

Also, do you really believe that a pub closed it's doors because all the smokers stopped going there! If that is true, then it obviously wasn't doing a good trade to begin with!

When I used to smoke, I did all four of the above! When I stopped smoking, I still did three of the above... in the same pubs!

When the smoking ban came into force in the UK, I still did three of the the above... again in the same pubs! And my smoker friends did all four of the above... in the same pubs... however now smoked outside! I used to go outside with them, because I still wanted to socialise with my friends who smoked.

The only pubs that have closed down in the areas in the UK that I used to live, are those that were less frequented by all to begin with!

Those that did a good trade, still do a good trade! As all, smokers and non-smokers, still frequent their establishments!

The same will apply in Spain...

How many bars in Spain, especially in the Coastal regions, have changed hands over the years? Answer, far too many to count and the reason has nothing to do with Smoking!

I can count quite a few, during the short time I've lived here, in the port of Duquesa alone!

Whatever the outcome of the argument about loss of trade or not, is it better for all, smokers and non-smokers, that smoking in a small,confined, public space is now not permitted?

Come on, I want honest answers from all you smokers!

I just met someone at the local bar for a coffee.  All the usual regulars were there but instead of standing around the bar puffing away, they were sat outside instead.  The same people that were there every day before were there again today.

Most bar owners I know have all said that business last year was bad.  Like Techno says, bars here change hands more often than I change my underwear.  (OK, perhaps too much info there).

At the end of the day this IS the right thing to do.  Everyone knows that smoking causes huge numbers of illnesses and it's not fair on the non-smokers, especially children, who have (had) to passively smoke.  I hate it when people are (were) smoking in a restaurant beside my and my kids.

I too am an ex-smoker and we all know ex-smokers are the worst!

Justin

 Whilst I totally agree that smoking indoors is bad for your health, I am just pointing out that, as an ex-smoker myself, it doesn’t bother me when people smoke in pubs.  Maybe I am just less  sensitive than others appear to be.  Yes, I agree, bad pubs will close regardless of whether the customer can smoke or not.  However, I disagree that only bad  pubs have closed in UK because of it.  There were five pubs in my village, all well used.  Only two remain as pubs, and both those have large, outdoor areas for the smokers to go to and one has turned into a restaurant with a bar area and has built an outside area for smokers.  The other two, with no outdoor area as they are the older type pubs on the street, have closed.  Even the British Legion in the next town now only opens on Friday and Saturday instead of all week.

I used to go to pubs and smoke, since stopping I still go because, as I say, it doesn’t bother me.  However, one of my neighbours who said he wouldn’t go whilst smoking was allowed still doesn’t appear to go now it’s been banned.  On the other hand, another of my neighbours won’t go as he can’t smoke when he’s there.  And that, I believe, is the difference.  People will get used to not going to pubs as they can stay at home with cheaper booze and still (until the state sponsored health police come knocking on your door) able to smoke if  they wish.  It’s all well and good saying you can go outside to smoke, UK has just had an average December temperature of -1C.  Most evenings it has been -5 or even less.  Smokers may be hardy souls but they aren’t that hardy! 

Spain should be able to weather this due to the more outdoorsy type weather (until the non-smokers start complaining, of course).   Those pubs in Duquesa you mention will have gone because they were badly run, not because of the smoking ban which didn’t exist.

Anyway, the ban is here now.  I hope those non-smokers will get out and use them and outnumber those who will not go because of it.