smoking ban

Fultond no i believe in a free society where decisions can be made for the greater good using correct information to make this decision and not goverments and protest groups dictating the outcome to other individuals.

I am sure if the UK was not filled with so many bloody do gooders and such we would not be facing the chaos and anarchy in our country at the moment (but that is anoher soapbox)

My father and his generation must be turning in their graves at how the UK is at present.

JEK

No I have a far greater believe that what goes around comes around and Britian will become the cesspit the do gooders deserve and thank GOD I have a bolthole to run to.

As stated previously I am a non smoker and still contracted the big C and was never subjected to passive smoking of any kind during my 50 years on this planet, but by the grace of God and my surgeon i am still here 6 years down the line.

So I have my opinion and respect others as well but there are far easier ways to control tobacco smoke than banning iit n bars and food establishment, make them illegal like herion and crack.  OH sorry the goverment and our greedy politicians would lose valuable revenue and perhaps their cushy life style.

best Regards

If you object to "do gooders" is that because you are a "do badder"?

bbbreakfast

Who are the ones to make the decisions for the greater good? You? Individual smokers? It seems to me that this is what the government are there to do. They are influenced by various medical and political studies/groups, and expert advisors, as well as public opinion.

What you say about our forefathers may be true, but to be honest there are more improvements in our society due to law changes than there are negatives. The world has moved on and you just have to accept it. Your sort of anarchy will get us nowhere.

guslopez - "As you will see a roof & 2 walls  are allowed, as is 4 walls & no roof. The bar I used last night  has always had an outside retractable roof & on tuesday had fitted 3 canvas sides. The 3 policia local that inspected it last night were more than happy. A wall is a self-supporting structure, normally of stone, brick or block-work & Capable of supporting superstructure. Canvas sides do not constitute 'walls' otherwise they'd let you build your house out of them !"

I've finally seen a copy of the law.   "A efectos de esta Ley, en el ámbito de la hostelería, se entiende por espacio al aire libre todo espacio no cubierto o todo espacio que estando cubierto esté rodeado lateralmente por un máximo de dos paredes, muros o paramentos." 

I believe that "paramentos" are the hanging walls.  If so, then they count towards the maximum of two.

jek

that  loophole sounds open (parden the pun) to abuse?  as any construction with two walls a roof and canvas sides would be legal?, but from a health point could  be as bad as a normal room?. 

 I am sure jek says that the canvas walls count as walls.  So maximum of 2.  Yippeee.  Getting better all the time.

TP1

yes,  guslopez that said that canvas sides do not constitute walls according to the local policia, which was disputed by Jek after seeing a copy of the law.  Sounds like varying interpretation of the law?

It seems the question should be "When is a wall not a wall?"

Again, this is the trouble with Spanish Law! It is left to interpretation!

The law states, which ever way you read it:

"Maximum two walls"

Therefore anything else should be deemed as being enclosed.

Structures outside the bar such as awnings and gazebos are fine. However, a Gazebo with 3 or more sides I would call a Marquee, and personally would consider that an enclosed area.

However, we are talking about the Local Police and what they consider an enclosed area.

If you call the police and are not happy with the findings of the officer in question, you can report this at the local police station.

It will be very interesting to see what happens when the Chiringuitos (Beach Bars) open again!

goodstich:

I think you have misunderstood my post.  Canvass walls do count towards the total of two permitted.

TechnoApe:

I don't mean to be offensive but nobody cares how you (or I or gus's local plod or anyone else) define it.  You are welcome to call a gazebo a marquee and guslopez's plods can say that canvass walls are not walls.  But the law is clear - a maximum of "dos paredes, muros o paramentos".  I'm not familiar with the word "paramento" but my online dictionary comes up with "hangings" so I assume that in this context it means hanging walls as in canvass, plastic, call it what you like.  But I'd love some sort of confirmation from our Spanish contributors.  But logic supports my position as one of the driving forces for the new law was to protect bar and restaurant staff being killed by customers and, as goodstich has pointed out, they will still be subjected to secondary smoking in your marquee.

There is obviously a problem if the local plod don't know the law but presumably higher authority will establish the true position and they will become aware over time.  Hope so.

2 walls means 2 walls, it does not mean one either side of the restaurant or bar frontage, that would equal 3.  Canvas awning are walls by any interpretation as they restrict the flow of air.

If in any doubt I suggest asking for the 'libres de reclamation'  there will then be a clear ruling. Calling the police is inefective as they don't really know either and will decide according to how well they know the bar owner.  The aim of the law is to protect the health of everyone who choses not to smoke., which is the majority.   I note that the Malaga restauranter who challenged the law is now facing a €10,000.00 fine, and each of the smokers involved are to be fined €30.00.  this happened in the UK too and resulted in a landlord going to prison.  End of protest.  The law must be seen to have teeth. 

As for infringment of liberties for smokers,  There are many thing we would all like to do that the law prevents us from doing - for the greater good.  It is called civilisation.

waterdog, you claim "The aim of the law is to protect the health of everyone who choses not to smoke., which is the majority"

Where do you live? Im gathering its not anywhere near Spain as otherwise you would have realised that its one of the countries with the most smokers!

Joan

I live in southern Spain, and according to national statistics 29% of the adult population are smokers which represents a MINORITY  it seems more now because they are all congregating together - outside. 

As most of the comments on this thread appear to be from holiday home owners who live mainly in their beloved UK;

Why don't you just stay there or find a second home somewhere else. Spain is not the UK, neither does it have a UK culture.

Stop trying to impose your 'Empire' culture throughout the world.

Stay in Bognor.

Well, have to say as a smokers neither my husband and myself have a problem  with banning smoking inside venues. We will never demean ourselves to smoke standing in the street so  acknowledge it is helping us to break what most of the time is just habit orientated.

People I pity now are the lovers of alcohol but hopefully help will be on the way very soon for those people as well because all the bars, without outside facilities, which was the majority, we walked past in Lorca today were empty.

Either there will be a revolution or bars will close.

I have always been dubious as to whether a smoking ban would ever be observed in Spain - and I am already beginning to sense the beginnings of a revolt. I've been in the UK since just before Christmas and am wondering what to expect when I get home to Guardamar the week after next. I have a perfect solution to the argument about walls and awnings etc. Just ban smoking in ALL public places, full stop. If it was restricted to consenting adults in private (i.e. behind locked and sealed doors), I reckon life expectancy would go up by five years.

The other solution is this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUimx-kwY2k

Just ban smoking in ALL public places???

So will they also ban cars, lorries, tractors, planes, industry etc etc... which churn out tonnes of c**p each year. Why  penalise only the smokers??

 Just ban smoking in ALL public places???

So will they also ban cars, lorries, tractors, planes, industry etc etc... which churn out tonnes of c**p each year. Why  penalise only the smokers??

Possibly because the smokers are the only ones that can get into public places.  I suppose if I was having a meal and someone at the next table started up the Ford Focus they were sitting in I'd get a bit upset, too.

The smoking ban is in.  I am not saying I am in agreement with it as, as I've mentioned, it doesn't bother me.  However, it is now law and all this "ban cars", "what constitutes a wall!", "what about kiddys playgrounds in pubs (doesn't count, by the way, unless it is a registered play park which they aren't)" and so on will not make a jot of difference.  It was an EU ruling (since rescinded) that started it all.  It's in.  Smokers will have to live with it.  Non-smokers (and especially the ex ones) can keep their smug little grins and enjoy their time in the pubs (but I still haven't seen the hundreds coming out in force who said they would when the smoking ban came in) but the fact is, it is now against the law.  Same as driving without a seat belt or in flip-flops.  Regardless of your feelings, it is against the law.

Don't you think the smoking ban topic is played out now It seems to have taken over the whole forum and I am sure is driving people away

I know I am sick of reading about it

 "what about kiddys playgrounds in pubs (doesn't count, by the way, unless it is a registered play park which they aren't)"

babaol - are you sure?

The new law prohibits smoking in "Recintos de los parques infantiles y áreas o zonas de juego para la infancia, entendiendo por tales los espacios al aire libre acotados que contengan equipamiento o acondicionamientos destinados específicamente para el juego y esparcimiento de menores".  Pretty clear cut to me - if it's an area for children, smoking is banned.  And not just in the parque infantil but in the area around it too. The fact that it's in the grounds of a bar doesn't come into it.  Just how illogical would it be anyway to allow punters not to smoke in the bar but to be allowed to rush out to the children's play area for their fix?  One of the main drivers for the new law was protection for minors. 

If its true that smoking is banned in public places like bars ,, I' m all for it, so many times I have wanted to go into places but seeing the fumes turned me in the opposite direction !  such a turn off