HI, I wonder if any of our fellow suffers were involved in the projects Fortuna Golf in Mercia,there were around 2500 proposed properties in this delevopments only a few were ever finnished.Even if the deopits were 50000euros which would be an average and lets say 2000 properties that totals 10000000 yes one hundred million.Avery large amount of these were sold by Instant Access who are now defuncted leaving yet again hundreds more swindled people.Insant Access had an educational branch called Inside Track they charged up to 10000 pounds to be a member and  tell people how to become a property millonaire by buying buy-to-let off plan projects in UK,America and Spain unfortunatley many clients took a mortgage out on their homes  to purchase their promted dream.It will be interesting to see how many if any of these people come forward as i still think we have only scratched the surface of this problem.                     

Regards Mega

Mike, have you ever considered a Panorama expose, perhaps their investigators might be able to uncover some more facts and figures to add to the petition data whilst highlighting the Bank Guarantee abuse, not to mention the failures of the justice system to enforce the Law? A respected TV program with maximum viewing figures might be required now, especially with the current focus on Banks?

Ruth, I wonder if there is a simple way that a global posting (yours or Keith's wording) can be done across all the community threads advising of the petitions (if Justin will allow us that facility/priviledge)?

Hi mike, now long ago did you speek to the people at homes from hell, may be now we (Rambi)  have identified half a billion and rising of deposits and stage payments lost, they may reconsider their decision? what do yiu think'

Regards Mega

Mega, be very careful. Any figures provided to a TV program need to be substantiated for them to serve any credible purpose. This is part of the problem with the Spanish official claims, they are not credible, so we should not fall into the same trap of making guesstimates and run the risk of discrediting existing campaign evidence. Everyone across the board need to provide credible evidence (and encourage others to do likewise) to Ruth and Keith's campaign petitions.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-the-spanish-property-roadshow-open-letter-to-davi.html

http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/

Hi, the figures compiled by Rambi are devolments which have not been started or partly finnished,may be you could check with rambi but if we rechecked all these listed develoments on Rambi list it would check out,as you are known there are thousands of off plan properties unbuilt, haif built or  finisished and empty. The problem is that there are hundreds possibly thousands out there and many like myself with court judgment 95,000 euros plus interest and an embargo and not had a cent arfter 2 yrs  would come forward with enough publicity . Check out the list on Rambi,s thread and may be you could have other sujestions that might help us all move forward.       

MEGA

John,sorry about some wrong spelling but my typing is two fingers and my eyes are getting old.

Mega

Mega, I last spoke to the 'Homes from Hell' team on Monday.  I have since emailed them with many reasons as to why I believe that the Spanish cases should be well covered in their series and asked for my comments to be forwarded to the decision makers.

I can only wait now to see if they will re-consider but don't hold out much hope.

John, thanks for all your efforts,we will get there in the end.   

Mega

Mega, Ads, below is an extract from my last email to 'Homes from Hell' - and yes I do think that an airing on Panorama would be good.  All of these platforms are great for creating awareness,however  I don't believe that the problem is one of awareness any more, it is more one of incentive.  There are many powerful people in the Spanish banks and government who could easily force the banks to be honest and comply with banking code etc but they don't want to and will not help unless forced.

There are also many powerful people in our own government are well aware and who could force some action but instead choose not to to get involved.  We have to put as much pressure on these people as possible and maybe that's where the pressure of the media can be used to disgrace them for their negligence and for not acting in our interests when they have a chance to do so. 

Sorry if that sounds a bit contradictory - I do think a Panorama type coverage would be good but it needs now to be focused on disgracing the officials and organisation (FSA, FCO, British Embassy, British Consulate etc) who are fully aware but have chosen not to help us.

Extract from email -

'Although every case is unique in some respects, my case illustrates many issues which are unfortunately common to thousands of British overseas property buyers at the moment, and from my angle seems like a very worthy candidate for inclusion in your series for the following reasons:

Buying in Spain accounts for the largest proportion of British overseas property buyers – almost everyone knows someone who is caught up in their mess.

Through the various media, awareness has been successfully communicated to senior politicians and finance officials in both Spain and the UK, yet all to no avail. No meaningful action has been taken apart from talking about it in European Parliament.  Most of those contacted have simply dismissed the situation and claimed unable to assist. 

A 1,000 strong petition was sent to Gordon Brown, another to the Governor of the bank of Spain, letters have been sent to the FSA, the SFO, ADICAE, the IMF have been made aware of the fraudulent behaviour of Spanish Banks – all of these have been dismissed.

Unlike other property scandals which generally involve corruption between developers and local authorities, the Spanish scandal involves Spain’s major banks and even the Spanish Prime Minister who supports the activities by his refusal to acknowledge that the problem exists.

As I have previously pointed out, everyone is aware that Spanish property developers, lawyers, planning officers etc cannot be trusted, there still remains a lack of awareness that the banks are equally corrupt and as long as this unawareness remains, prospective buyers will continue to fall into the same traps and will continue to lose monies handed over to secure properties.

Inclusion of these items is particularly timely right now, because as you know, the Spanish government’s roadshow is now underway and will be returning to the UK in September.  Spain’s housing Minister, Beatriz Corredor and Minister for Works, Jose Blanco are systematically touring Europe telling blatant lies about the security of the Spanish property buying process, and the importance of securing the protection of a Bank Guarantee when buying in their country.  They too refuse to acknowledge that the banks have refused to honour thousands of the guarantees that they have issued.  So long as consumers believe that Spanish banks are trustworthy like British banks, they will continue to be conned by these crooks.  Meanwhile our government simply allow them to continue.  Eventually the Spanish banking system may collapse in which case our money will be lost for ever – and our government will be largely to blame for their lack of interest.'

IMHO I suspect that given the existing systemic failure of judicial enforcement in Spain that this is the main problem compromising all too many innocent purchasers from reaching recompense. And this needs to be highlighted at every opportunity.

We have to get this problem addressed ASAP for purchasers to feel reassured that following legal routes to recompense  will actually be enforced (including Bank Guarantee claims) and not sit for indefinite and compromising time periods, awaiting judicial resolution.

With that in mind we have to direct those in power to the petition evidence to substantiate these claims and strongly argue our corner with proof of systemic failure and incompetence within the existing Spanish system of Justice, and if required present this evidence to the EU Parliament and EU Commission. The EU Commission's terminology from the conclusions of previous petitions has made reference to using " the competent judicial systems within member states."

Well we have news for them........ sadly there is no competent judicial system in Spain as things stand at present! From this we should request a compensation route for recompense if the Spanish Government through its system of justice continue to deny the implementation of law.

I apologise for not being very active recently but I have been unwell for the last couple of weeks.

Obviously my intentions have not been understood correctly in spite of some very long posts. It seems we have two schools of thought . There is the one that says we must have hard evidence before we move otherwise we can easily be discredited.

I agree. It would be wonderful to have hard facts and figures to support our claims. But we don't. Neither do the Spanish Government.

For the past 50 years they have got away with saying we are a tiny minority who never got it right. Compared to the millions of foreign buyers of Spanish property THEY ARE RIGHT. They can quote figures that no one can argue with, so if they say it is only .05% of 70 million buyers we have to accept their figures. I am sorry but in my opinion going to war armed with just a few thousand certifiable documented names written in the blood of holy martyrs will prove to be a waste of time.

I have every admiration for Keith and Ruth and the others who are fighting for the same cause. But let me say again the Spanish have been fending off these types of attacks for fifty years. If you question this consider the following. You all know the law was made in 1968, you all know how slowly the legal system takes in Spain. This law was probably some time in the making after a few years of complaints made by people in the 1950's and 60's. We are not the first generation to have these problems. The Spanish can afford to wait. A large percentage of us are pensioners so if they can keep us dangling for ten to twenty years many of us will die. I have been contacted by relatives of buyers who this has happened to.

I HAVE NEVER SAID I WILL TRY TO PASS MY FIGURES OFF AS FACTS. All I am trying to do is to get a vague idea of the kind of money involved at this time because the figures are going to have more impact than a thousand signatures.

I suggest that anyone who really wants to understand my objectives reads my earlier posts. I shall not be told how to fight, it is my money too and if I have to resort to anything less than the Queensberry Rules so be it. But I am not stupid either, in fact my background with a national newspaper group probably puts me in a better position to understand what is acceptable to the media and how to present it than many others.

There is more advantage in using our united strengths than making wrong assumptions and insulting my intelligence by suggesting that I am some kind of loose cannon that is going to spoil a pretty campaign strategy.

I am collecting evidence and data which I consider will be sufficient to maximise the impact of our plight. These figures are a small part of that evidence and will be used as part of a total effort involving us all.

I'm not in this for the glory or the kudos, I have better things to do with my time, I just want to get my money back. Anything else is irrelevant.

Regards

Rambi.

RAMBI,

Well said.

Mega

Hi mike, re your post of 20th july, did you ever get a reply and do you think they may be yeilding to outside pressure?

Regards Mega

No Mega - no reply and they will not change the program for us.  There will be some Spanish content but most likely just a re-run of the Priors case.  A very worthy case but old news now.

Keiths Post of May the 5th

Gave us details of the Press release issued by the Spanish government for the Road Show. I am still catching up fron a recent illness so have missed some things but I am surprised there appeared to be no comment regarding the glaring admissions made by this Press release. Or is it me? I have taken the last two paragraphs.

Furthermore, the mechanisms employed in the fight against corruption in urban planning have been further strengthened. For example, the figure of Public Prosecutor coordinating Environmental and Town Planning matters has been created, and police resources have been reinforced by the creation of specific groups within the police and the civil guard to combat town planning crime. These aspects have been added to the penal code which was reformed on 23 December 2010 and which increased the punishment for this type of crime.

A Land Law is also in force which includes specific clauses aimed at combating town planning corruption; and local regulatory reforms have been introduced which make it obligatory for government members to publicise their assets and interests, and which tighten up the rules governing incompatibilities.

Surely this is an admission of the corruption that existed.

Latest Statement from the Spanish Government regarding Phase 2 (Commercial Stage) of the Spanish Property Road Show:

Commercial Stage

The Ministry of Public Works through the State Secretary for Housing and Urban Affaire, along with the Spanish Institute for Foreign Trade (ICEX), organizes a series of technical conferences with Spanish developers and financial institutions to give them the opportunity to show their product portfolio to international investors.

These conferences and meetings will take place in Germany, United Kingdom, Sweden, France and The Netherlands, with the aim of facilitating contacts between Spanish developers and real estate divisions of financial institutions and real estate agents and intermediaries of these countries.

This so-called commercial stage gives continuity and coherence to the message already given during the institutional stage in the aforementioned destinations, and it’s a good opportunity to show different quality real estate products.

Only participants that fulfil strict legal and quality criteria are allowed to take part in these events. The Spanish companies participating in the conferences will present a certificate of compliance of the standards fixed, by an international consultant of renowned business prestige.

...'Only participants that fulfil strict legal and quality criteria are allowed to take part in these events'

 - does that mean that all banks who have stolen deposit money from previous imvestors will be excluded from the show??

It will be very interesting to see just who the participants are.....!!

When, when, when?????

I want to be there.