SPANISH GOVERNMENT PROPERTY ROAD SHOW 2011

www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/PRESS RELEASE 14 OCT 2011.pdf

PRESS RELEASE

14 October 2011

ISSUED BY:
BANK GUARANTEES IN SPAIN ACTION GROUP
Highlighting Spanish Off-Plan Property Bank Guarantee Issues : Demanding Action
www.bankguaranteesinspain.com

SUBJECT:  SPANISH GOVERNMENT PROPERTY ROAD SHOW
PHASE TWO – 13 OCTOBER 2011 – AT OPP LIVE – ExCel –
LONDON DOCKLANDS

BEATRIZ CORREDOR – SPANISH SECRETARY OF STATE
FOR HOUSING DELIVERS KEY NOTE SEMINAR SPEECH
AND ATTEMPTS TO EXPLAIN WHY NOW IS THE RIGHT
TIME TO INVEST IN THE SPANISH REAL ESTATE MARKET.
HOWEVER SHE FAILS TO ACKNOWLEGE THAT ANY
PROBLEMS EXIST WITH PREVIOUS PURCHASERS

POST SEMINAR DRINKS RECEPTION MARRED DUE TO
ANGRY EXCHANGES BETWEEN VICTIMS OF SPANISH
PROPERTY ABUSE AND SPANISH SECRETARY OF
STATE BEATRIZ CORREDOR

MARTA ANDREASEN MEP HAS FRANK EXCHANGE WITH
BEATRIZ CORREDOR AT POST SEMINAR DRINKS
RECEPTION

BANK GUARANTEE ACTION GROUP ATTENDS FOLLOW
UP MEETING WITH SPANISH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS
FROM THE HOUSING MINISTRY

BEATRIZ CORREDOR REFUSES TO MEET PERSONALLY
WITH THE BANK GUARANTEES ACTION GROUP

Phase 2 of the Spanish Government Property Road Show arrived in London
Docklands yesterday where the ‘main event’ was a 30 minute ‘key note’ speech
from Beatriz Corredor, Spain’s Housing Minister.

The Road Show, which was part of the Property & Investor Show OPP Live,
consisted of a Spanish Government stand in the centre of the exhibition hall
around which 12 Government approved companies were provided with individual
podiums to market their real estate portfolios.

Throughout the day the Spanish area was fairly quiet and there was not much
evidence of prospective purchasers for Spanish Property.  However, a number of
victims of various Spanish Property Abuses did make the exhibitors aware of their
problems.

At one point in the early afternoon it seemed as though many of the Spanish Real
Estate exhibitors had gone for lunch as most of the podiums were empty.

KEY NOTE SPEECH

At 3:15pm Beatriz Corredor delivered her ‘key note’ speech in a small seminar
room screened off from the main exhibition hall.  The audience of around 70
people was made up of trade guests, individual investors, Spanish Government
Embassy Officials and a number of victims of property abuse in Spain.

The audience was provided with copies of the Spanish Government publication
‘How to buy a home in Spain – Step by Step Guide’.

Beatriz Corredor was introduced by the Spanish Ambassador to the UK, Sr. Carles
Casajuana.  He advised the audience that instead of a question and answer
session at the end of the seminar Beatriz Corredor would host a drinks reception
where the audience could enjoy some Spanish Wine.

Her speech lasted for around 30 minutes and she explained how this was now the
optimum time to invest in Spanish Property due to the falling property prices, IVA
reduction on new properties, Land Registry searches now available in English and
the transparency and legal security available to purchasers.  Significantly the
Minister failed to acknowledge that there were any problems within the Spanish
real estate sector.

DRINKS RECEPTION & CHALLENGE FROM MARTA ANDREASEN MEP

At the end of the seminar the audience was then taken to the drinks reception
hosted by Beatriz Corredor and the Spanish Government.

The drinks reception was marred by some angry exchanges between Beatriz
Corredor and victims of Spanish Property Abuse.  Sra. Corredor attempted to
defend the Spanish Real Estate Sector and together with the Spanish Ambassador
they denied there were any major problems.

Marta Andreasen MEP who had flown into London specially to attend the seminar
in support of the victims of property abuse also challenged Beatriz Corredor at
the drinks reception.  http://www.martaandreasen.com/?p=1011

Marta Andreasen comments: “It didn’t take me long to introduce myself to
the Minister and have a conversation with her. I shall describe it as
‘frank and passionate’, with the conversation both in English and Spanish
attracting attention from many around.

Mrs Corredor quite clearly lives on another planet. She refused to
acknowledge the problems there have been and continue to be with
people who have invested in Spain. Through her denial, she is unwilling
to help those who have suffered and I question whether she even cares
given there’s an election in Spain in a few weeks time”

REFUSAL BY MINISTER TO ATTEND MEETING

Keith Rule coordinator of the Finca Parcs Action Group and organizer of the Bank
Guarantees in Spain Petition says: “After listening to the Seminar from our front
row seats, it was obvious they did not want us anywhere near Beatriz
Corredor.  Immediately the seminar ended myself and two other
representatives of the Bank Guarantees In Spain Petition, Mike Kerr and Reg
Matthews were taken for a pre-arranged meeting with two senior members
of Beatriz Corredor’s team.

We asked Beatriz Corredor to join the meeting but she refused.  The meeting
which was a follow up to our first meeting held during the first phase of the
Road Show at the Spanish Embassy in May lasted for around 75 minutes and
at times became rather heated due to the serious nature of the subject
matter”

The meeting was arranged to discuss the wider issue of Bank Guarantee Abuse
including circumstances where developers and banks failed to issue the legally
required Bank Guarantees and where Banks were refusing to honour Bank Guarantees
for no legitimate legal reason.

COMPLAINT TO THE BANK OF SPAIN

Keith continues: “After reaching the end of the complaints procedure with Caja
de Ahorros del Mediterráneo (CAM) the Bank who accepted our off-plan
deposits at Finca Parcs we then forwarded our complaint to the Valencian
Savings Ombudsman who advised us that the complaint was ‘out of their
remit’ and then referred us to the Bank of Spain.  We submitted our
complaint and dossier of evidence to the Banco de España on 12 October
2010.  The complaint was not only in relation to the Finca Parcs/CAM
situation but it also criticized the Banco de España for their lack of
supervision with regards to the wider issue of Bank Guarantee Abuse.

The Banco de España notified us in writing on 3 January 2011 that they had
accepted our complaint into their system.  We have not heard from them
since.  We took this matter up with the Spanish Government at our meeting
in May and were now looking for some information on the progress of our
complaint.  Unfortunately Beatriz Corredor’s team was unable to give us any
positive news.

Keith says: they told us: ‘Sra. Corredor has personally contacted the Governor
of the Bank of Spain but we are still waiting for an answer with regards to
your complaint.  The Bank of Spain is independent and we as a Government
cannot tell them what to do.  You must make a complaint to the Defensor del
Pueblo regarding the lack of response from the Bank of Spain.  We will also
continue to chase them on your behalf’


Keith adds: ”We have now demanded a meeting with the Bank of Spain and
Beatriz Corredor’s team has assured us that although they are unable to
instruct the Bank of Spain to meet with us they will support us with our
request.

LAND REGISTRY SEARCHES – INNACURATE AND INCOMPLETE

At the meeting we also challenged many of the things said by Beatriz
Corredor during her 30 minute seminar.

We highlighted the fact that the information provided by the Spanish Land
Registry was inaccurate and we had with us copies of recent Land Registry
Searches for a property that was demolished in 2008,  two other properties
that were issued with demolition notices in 2009 and a property that was
subject to Land Grab.  The Land Registry searches did not make any
reference to these very serious issues.

The officials attempted to defend the Land Registry system which is all part
of their claim that the system now offers legal security and transparency by
saying that “The English translation system for the Land Registry was only
introduced in July this year and it would take a little time to be accurate.
They said ‘we have to start somewhere”.  We then gave them evidence of the
fact that the documents we were referring to were actually in Spanish from
the Spanish Land Registry search and not from the new English system.

“We insist that buying a house in Spain has always been safe.”  Beatriz Corredor
Spanish secretary of state for housing

During a recent interview with the BBC’s Sarah Rainsford, Beatriz Corredor said
“We insist that buying a house in Spain has always been safe”.  When
pressed further on this issue she conceded, “Those who have had problems
are on the path to a solution”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15293808



Keith challenges the statement from Beatriz Corredor: ”This statement is
completely untrue.  If as the Minster says, buying a house in Spain has
always been safe, then why are so many people suffering from issues
such as Land Grab, Demolition Orders, Ley de Costas and Bank Guarantee
Abuse?  I am shocked that she can continue to make such inflammatory
and insensitive statements.  If we are now on a ‘path to a solution’ the
least we deserve is to be told just how long that path is.

Sra. Corredor must understand that now is the optimum time to meet
with the victims and put in place measures to resolve the serious issues
that are still outstanding as a result of the complete lack of supervision
in the Spanish Real Estate Sector.

If the Spanish Government and Banco de España really want us to
believe that the Spanish Real Estate Sector is transparent and offers
legal security then they must stop papering over the cracks and act now
to resolve the outstanding issues.

Now is not the time for Sales Seminars and Road Shows; it is time for
some real action from the Spanish Government and Banco de España.

We are sick of hearing about the transparency and legal security on offer,
because all we have experienced and are still experiencing is the
complete opposite – corruption, fraud, negligence and continual denial.

The Spanish Government must immediately clean up the property sector,
take action to resolve the property abuses, give more power to the Banco
de España to make them an effective supervisor of the Banks and ensure
that the Law relating to off-plan property purchases, LEY 57/68 is
enforced in all cases both past and present.

We have made it clear to the Spanish Government that we will not go
away and that will continue to fight to recover our money that should
have been protected by the inalienable rights granted to us by Spanish
Law, LEY 57/68”

Mike Kerr who was also present at the meeting comments: “I was disappointed
that I was not allowed to speak directly to Beatriz Corredor.  As I
approached her she turned her back on me and walked away.  We have
made the Spanish Government fully aware of the fraudulent actions of
the Spanish Banks but are surprised that they still refuse to intervene to
change their behaviour.  By failing to take action it could be said that they are condoning the fraudulent activity of the banks”

-Ends-

Keith

This statement from Beatriz Corredor,    

“Those who have had problems are on the path to a solution”

Could this be quoted in the Spanish media along side some of the horror stories many of us have endured and more importantly see no action to resolve?.   The question is ''Where is this path?. If the public realise that the Spanish government in reality have no intention of finding a solution to those who have had 'problems' and just tell lies that do nothing to improve the decline in British investors, and of course Spain's well being, then perhaps it might raise some emotion?

Your report confirms our worst fears as far as I can see. Denial of truth, denial of reality. Shame on the Spanish government once again. Are they anything more than liars and cheats?, and is it any wonder that those below them at every level so often follow their example!!

Goodstitch

All the Press Releases that we issue are also translated into Spanish (thanks María) and then distributed to the Spanish language media contacts.

We hope to send the Spanish version of this latest Press Release out next week.

We have had some coverage in the Spanish language media with previous Press Releases.

I think the Spanish Government realised yesterday and at the first Phase in May that the UK is not going to be an easy ride for them.

They may have an easy time of it with the Road Show in France, Germany, Holland and Sweden - but definately not in the UK.

We are doing all we can given the fact that we are all doing this on a voluntary basis and in our 'spare' time!

I know it is hard - there are many days when I feel like giving up on the whole damn thing - but you have to try and keep the faith!

Kind regards

Keith

Keith and Marta Andreason have both perfectly captured the atmosphere and events of yesterday afternoon's visit to the Excel exhibition in London.

I arrived at about 2.15pm and my first planned stand to visit was that of Banco Pastor the bank who took the deposit for my off-plan property. 

I found the stand which was shared by representatives of a number of Spanish banks.Some of the desks were manned others were empty.

Banco Pastor's was empty. Eventually a representative appeared  and I was able to challenge him about the bank's failure to safegard my deposit or to ensure I was refunded the funds after a judge had ordered it. He was at a loss for an answer and when I told him the amounts involved and how long I had waited he remarked that he would kill some-one who owed him that sort of money!!

He wrote down details of my lawyer and court case and said he would see what he could do and pass on my complaint for the bank to follow up on.

I expect he just binned it when I left. He did however hurry to representatives of the stand two positions along and entered into a conversation that resulted in all of them raising their heads and looking my way. I expect that I was not alone in buttonholing him that day, although he denied that anyone else had made such a complaint when I asked.

Next I attended Beatriz Corredor's seminar and the drinks reception afterwards.The seminar was exactly as reported by Keith and Marta, although Keith's disappearance afterwards left me wondering who was going to tackle Sr Corredor. After reading Keiths' and Martas' reports I cannot help but think that Keith's 'meeting' was stage managed to prevent him from asking embarrassing questions.

I did see Marta and Sr Corredor circled by a number of eager on-lookers which she describes in her report.

I found poster 'Rambi' in a heated exchange with the Spanish Ambassador and was soon involved with Rambi's attempt to convince the Ambassador that in Spain it is a fact that banks are ignoring judges' directions and not refunding deposits. The Ambassador,smiling condecendingly, repeatedly replied that if you win your case, 'Of course you are repaid''. Even with three of us now telling him the same story (two of us with the same bank) he stuck to the same line. When I said that I believed corruption was at the bottom of many of the property industry problems, he protested there was not corruption.

I told him he must be living in some sort of 'Utopia' by the answers he was giving.

Eventually he was called away (rescued) by some of his entourage and left.

My feelings are that Spain is in such a financial mess they are all prepared to lie through their teeth to save their skins and the continuing flow of EU cash grants. They were a disgrace.

Where do we go from here?

I thought I had posted my thanks to everyone

I will try again, very well done, hope to be with you next time.

Regards

Norman

Yes, thanks to all those that took the time to get to the meeting and especially to those that wrote about it here. 

With mainland Spain firmly off our list as far as buying a property is concerned, we have been researching the Canaries.  Apart from the fact that the weather is great all year round....it seems the Canary Islands are a pretty safe bet when it comes to buying property.  There have been a few developers and estate agents going bust, of course, but none of the sources I've contacted have heard of anyone losing a deposit. Does anyone know differently?

meggie

I don't know about the canaries, but two lots of our friends have bought in Turkey after hearing about me losing my life's savings in Spain, and both are really happy. They had none of the troubles I experienced. Property is cheap and not being in the Euro makes it very good value for holiday costs. Prices for eating/drinking, day trips etc are about half what they are in Spain for holiday makers, though flights can be  expensive.  We went out this year and had a great time. It reminded me of Spain about 30 years ago!

I think the roadshow will have done nothing to encourage people to buy in Spain, in fact the opposite. If the Spanish government wont even accept the facts, then what chance of change to make it worthy of serious consideration for the majority of potential buyers?.

 For goodness sake be careful about suggesting that people buy in Turkey.  Buying off-plan in Turkey is an absolute no-no.  Just about every pitfall that has been mentioned on this forum has also happened to foreigners who bought in Turkey....and maybe some more on top of that.  When the scams in Turkey are highlighted, the standard response is that it happens in Spain too.  Don't be convinced by stories from friends who bought there a few weeks, months or even a few years ago.  When you discover that your dream property isn't really yours, that your deposit has disappeared along with the builder, that you have paid in full for a property that didn't belong to the developer who sold it to you, that you have taken on crippling debts along with the property, or that it will cost wads of money to upgrade your property to make it legal, your friends won't be shelling out the money.  You will, provided you still have some money left over after all the so-called professionals have had their slice of the action.  BUYER BEWARE.

Check out the following 'Idealister' newspaper report on the show, par ticularly the reader's comments.http://www.idealista.com/news/archivo/2011/10/13/0355772-el-gobierno-publicita-en-londres. -bajadas-del-precio-de-la-vivienda-en-espana-de-hasta-el-50

For those who do not have Spanish, you'll need to translate but it is worth it to get the reaction of the (most likely) Spanish readers.

PrimroseMar

I don't doubt what you are saying and I've heard similar. I guess like Spain it's very much a lottery, and at the moment the friends who bought in Turkey look like winners. For how long I don't know?, but one of the couples have had their property for about 5 years with no serious problems. They bought a fairly old property.  The other couple bought off-plan, but it's finished to the standard they expected and they have just come back from a holiday in it that they couldn't praise enough. How long it will run smooth for is anyone's guess?, probably until they need a common sense legal desision of some sort that we take for granted in the UK,  but at the moment both couples are very pleased they chose Turkey over Spain. 

I fully understand what you saying and if the regulations/ legal / justice system is not any better or even worse than Spain's, then it could be just a matter of time before the s*it hits the fan?. Many wont accept that though in Spain or Turkey and prefer the ''I'm alright'' mentality.

 I'm sorry, Goodstitch and others, for taking this thread off course.  Knowing that so many people in Turkey are in much the same boat as yourselves I just couldn't let it pass without a warning.   That knowledge has led me to be extra careful about buying abroad and the first place I check on forums such as this are the warning threads about people's bad experiences because that's the info we never get from Estate Agents.   Having sold my place in Turkey, I'm looking at Spain but am extremely wary.  I suppose that buying in a foreign country is always something of a lottery but one would have expected some protection in an EU country.  Wishful thinking I suppose!.

Anyway, having issued my warning, I shall bow out of this thread now.  Good luck to those of you fighting for justice.  From what I have read here, you are fortunate to have some very competent and well organised people spearheading the campaign. 

PrimroseMar

your'e OK, it's all part of same crap!!

As for having competent and well organised people spearheading the campaign (and I'm not one of them I hasten to add), so true. They are doing a fantastic job in trying to bring justice where there is none, and changes that would benifit everyone on the right side of property purchase.  As the roadshow showed though, the truth and the facts are only any good if those they are aimed at are prepared to listen, accept and take action.  Reading Keith's reports doesn't offer much hope on that score, but at least it's publicicity, and it's out there.

 Hi All

as I understand it the minister for housing who was at the roadshow will not have a job in 3 months. 

so whatever/as little was said (however bad) isn't going to make much of a difference.

It looks like the current government is due for massive defeat in the upcoming elections.

For me it seems that the only way to get a decent resolution to our isses is by using a lawyer who cares and you can trust, it may take time, and as someone who is waiting on 10's of thousands of euros it is sickening to have to do it. 

I would say for those who are waiting on deposits owed to them who are having bank guarantee issues, don't just sit back and wait. You need to put a case against the banks aswell as the builder. If you think about it the builders involved are many and not neccesary on anyones radar. However there are only a few banks involved with all of these problems and if more and more of us chase them, it hopefully will become clear to the new government that there is a massive problem.

Just a thought, for what its worth.

Regards

Agreed.  I have always favoured taking simulataneous action against the Bank who accepted the off-plan deposit as well as the developer.

It has always been my opinion that the Banks were complicit in the illegalities committed by the developers.  They were all in it together.  They collaborated to steal our money!

Yes, it looks like the PSOE will lose to the PP in the general election on 20 November.  So if that happens then Beatriz Corredor will be out of a job.

No doubt by fronting up the Road Shows she has made a few friends in some big Real Estate companies.  Isn't it called planning for the future?  I am sure one of them will give her a well paid job!

Kind regards

Keith

Keith
I agree that we should be able to hold the banks responsible. Also for many where the developer has gone bust then that's the only option left. The problem is, what if we take action against the bank and lose after paying a handsome sum to a lawyer?. Where would we go then? If we hadn't lost a fortune already then the risk might seem more worth it, but when you have already been let down by the very justice system itself, it doesn't give you much faith in the banks being forced to pay their debts?.  We need to know that the law backs the victims on this. Anything else and what chance of beating the banks?. If a lawyer was confident enough to try a limited number of test cases on a no win-no fee basis, then I would be the first to join in and the first to sing their praises loud and clear for taking the risk, and what confidence a few wins against the banks would bring for those cheated through no BG.!!

I think the truth is though, that no lawyer is confident enough of a win to take that risk, so why should we be?.  I'm very keen for people to take action against the banks that didn't supply a BG, but we have to know that the odds are in favour of those wronged.

I know this is exactly what you are fighting so hard for with all your work and petitions and I'm in no way critical of the great work you are doing. I'm just not wealthy enough to risk losing more money, and there must be many of us in a similar situation.

 Hi All

there has already been a case using a generic (bank held) guarantee that has been successful in court, the cost for me to take my case forward is 700euro.

I think this is a no brainer, and having 3 redundancies over the last 5 yrs I am not cash rich either, but I would kick myself if I had not done everything that I could do to get my cash back. my lawyer knows I have no other cash to spend on this aswell so we all know were we stand. there are about ten of us within our claim and I'm sure thats how the costs have been kept down.

My development was at Jumilla with the builder San Jose, and the offer recieved from them after spending a lot more on lawyers than this case was laughable. as I said in an earlier posting, those in my position really need to get on it, and if and when thousands of people are chasing the banks it will be very difficult for spanish officials to say there are no problem with bank guarantees.

regards

trowell1

If the costs are as reasonable as you are saying then I dont blame you.  How many could take their BG case forward for 700 euro's though?.  Only if there is a fairly big group of you I would think?.  Having said that, if lawyers were to agree on a low sum if they lose the case that might at least allow more to risk that route for justice?

I agree it would be great to see many cases against the banks, but I wouldn't bet on Spanish officials taking much notice. They haven't taken much notice of the many court cases won by many of us to no avail.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/expatproperty/8834093/Spains-housing-secretary-in-denial-about-expat-property-problems.html

José Blanco to retire from front line politics

By h.b. - Nov 25, 2011 - 6:33 AM

He has been number two to Zapatero for the past ten years

The Vice Organisation Secretary of the PSOE and acting Minister for Development, José Blanco, has announced that he is retiring from front line national politics. Blanco told the TV channel ‘24 Horas’ that he has already informed both Zapatero and Rubalcaba that he will not opt to be re-elected as the party number two at the Federal Party Congress in February.

Blanco rejected the suggestion that his decision was linked at all to the campeón case where he faces allegations of corruption. He said he had been number two in the party to Zapatero for ten years and the time had come for him to leave front line politics.

He will remain a deputy for Lugo, and said he would continue in the second, third or fourth line of politics with the same intensity and illusion, helping and cooperating with the Socialist leaders. He said that new Socialist values needed to come to the fore.

Read more: http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_32809.shtml