Expats in Catalunya. What if.....?

With the recent surge for Catalunya's independance and the perseverance of Artur Mas (The right wing Catalan President) due to the crisis, made me pose the question; If they did get their independance how would it effect all the Expats living in Catalunya? 

For those who are not up to date on the situation, Catalunya has been fighting for independance forever, they firmly believe that they are an independant nation. Although they are well-off as an autonomous state, they are furious that they have to pay 9% of their economic output to the central government but have no problems putting out their hands for a bail out to meet their debt and payroll commitments. At the moment Spain needs Catalunya and vice versa as the Spanish market represents 50% of the Catalan economy. So I don't think it is likely to happen, but the Catalans seem more motivated than ever as over 50% of Catalans firmly believe that their future is at risk if they stay united to Spain. The President Artur Mas of Catalunya as a first step demanded fiscal autonomy, which he will not get. So we have a constitutional crisis on the horizon.

If Catalunya was to go independent, Expats would no longer be living in the EU, nor would they get their pensions in Euros but some other currency that would have to be invented, who knows what value it would have. Driving into Spain would mean crossing a border and import taxes on European goods, new health service laws and requirements, the list is endless and a potential nightmare for any Expat who bought their  retirement home in Catalunya. Property values would be effected even further as it is estimated that if Catalunya was to go independant it could loose between 30% and 50% of it's GDP within 3 years, due to international companies leaving.

So although it is unlikely, what if they did?   Would you stay?

 

 

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Various high ranking members of the Spanish army have already come out and said they won't allow Catalan independence.  Catalunya would have to win a civil war to get independence, which seems unlikely.

Not sure I would be too keen on living in an independent Catalunya if it ever did happen.

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 I think it is all a joke. Catalunya doesn't stand a chance of surviving on it's own. I think all these independance rallies are a waste of time. Don't they see it? They may have 50% in favour but if they were to go independant there would probably be an exodus by the other 50%. They would rapidly loose the international companies that are based there as they would more than likely flee over night. What are they thinking? Yes they want their nation to be recognised but come on it never really was a nation as one might understand it. By that rule Andalucia could go independant and Aragon aswell and why not Valencia at the same time. What would the next step be? Ask France to them back their land?

If I was living in Catalunya I would almost certainly move if the change was imminent, it's hard enough to live there now without it being an independant country. They are definitely taking it too far. It would be far too risky to stay, God knows what regulations they would put in!

How ever I am sure Real Madrid is all for it, they'll end up winning La Liga, EVERY year!!! :)

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 Oh wow!!  That is some thought.   I had not thought about it but Barca would be out of the picture.  What a cheery thought.  

Otherwise  I just view it the same way I view Scottish independance.  Let them have it as long as all subsidies from elsewhere stop!! 

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I have owned a pied-a-terre in a  southern Cataluna city for over 5 years,which I use for about 5 months of year-I  continue to sleep soundly of nights!

Even in the couple of weeks  since the Diada demonstration I perceive a cooling of sentiment,a sense of reality creeping in,carefully worded words of caution from business leaders etc. Would a Catalan lay down his life for Cataluna? Maybe. Would he  vote himself out of a job in these difficult times? Not a chance! Mas,who refuses to use the term"independencia"is in my opinion playing a careful political game-he realizes that the tide  is flowing in a certain direction,if he challenges the separatists directly he will be destroyed politically,he is moving incrementally,striving to secure concessions from central government,waiting for the folly of the project to become evident in due course

I am puzzled by the comment "its hard enough to live there now".Cataluna is  far ahead of the rest of Spain in all  major respects (except the friendlness of its people ) in my opiniom.The climate is excellent,rarely uncomfortably warm,the beaches are marvellous.the mountains stunning,the towns and cities clean and well-regulated,the administrations efficient and free of the headline-grabbing corruption that has bedevilled other regions of Spain,the voluntary/charitable sector very active,the people honest,hard-working and  reliable(tradesmen arrive on time).I do accept that while the Catalan women are beautiful and ,like women everywhere, smart(they define their best interests and act accordingly )the Catalan male is a pretty unattractive spacimen at a personal level-charmless,aggressive,boorish,insensitive,well-balanced only in that he has a chip on both shoulders,insular,hostile to outsiders,impatient with those lacking fluency in his language-but hey! who's perfect?

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 Nostradamus, you took the words out of my mouth "except the friendliness of the people" . My comment was not intended to mean "harsh times" but I find the Catalans through my personal experience to be the least friendly people in Spain. I totally agree with you that they are probably the hardest working people in Spain and the most efficient, I wouldn't go so far as to say there's not as much corruption, I would say that they are smarter and don't get caught so often! I have done lots of business with people from Barcelona,Girona, Lleida etc and have never reallly had any problems in business terms but on a social level I find they can be rude especially if they are true Catalans as you can speak to them in Castillian and they will answer in Catalan even though they can obviously speak Castillian but just want to make a point. If you are in Catalunya you should speak Catalan, which is a bit much given that Catalunya is just an autonomous state belonging to Spain " at the moment". I also think they go too far with their fines on the usage of Castillian in public places. 

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If the Catalans don't want foreigners living in "their " country then fine!  Expats will always be welcome elsewhere in  Spain.  Just don't forget to take your money with you.  The Catalans will miss the income soon enough.

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We once stayed in a campsite in Catalunya where the menu was in Catalan and English.  When we tried to communicate with the staff in Castilian, they answered us in very poor English, so we didn't know what they were on about.  It was all a bit stupid as our lingua franca was Castilian.  My philosophy is choose the language you can best communicate in.  Welsh people often get accused of this sort of behaviour, but there is no way we would jeopardise a sale by expecting and assuming that the customer should be able to communicate in Welsh...  And I thought Catalans were supposed to have a sharp business sense.

This message was last edited by eggcup on 29/09/2012.

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 To be honest I think they are very similar to the French in the way that they want the tourists' money but once they've taken it

"au revoir".  I don't think most people in Catalonia have really thought it through properly, there's been a powerful rush of patriotism

with the crisis and they are being given a lot of misguided information by the politicians and I am pretty sure that the vast majority are

not aware of what the consequences would be if they were to seperate from Spain. I can understand any country's fight for

independance if it is for the  better, but to go backwards and a long way back doesn't seem to be very clever. It would be catastrophic

for Catalonia.

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As someone living in catalunya and married to a catalan women and taking a particular interest in this, all I can say is have you lot been listening (brainwashed) to the Spanish press and watching TV Madrid have we? With such scare comments that have been floated around of late by the Spanish media. Such mis-informed comments from you guys! Listen to the whole story and not the one sided view you are getting "down there".

BTW I have met loads of catalans and the ones in their late 50's would seem to have a chip on their shoulder but the younger genaration are a very friendly group of people. Generalising a bit I think to say what you have been saying about them.

Study up on the history before you go on as well. Catalunya was a country, shafted one side from the French and the other by the Spanish!

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I live about 20 minutes from previous poster in Cambrils who is married to catalan women(good trick,a lot of us cant find even one woman to put up with us,catalan or non-catalan)and I reiterate my view that cataluña is the most wonderful place on earth,but that the peoplle are rubbish,rubbish,rubbish

In case I might be accused of ambiguity I would wish to make clear that in my view the people are rubbish

I am a foreigner living in a city in Catalunya who is deeply respectful of Catalan culture,pays all his taxes,buys the Diari de Tarragona each day(local newspaper),spent a lot of time and money  on learning Catalan,obeys all the laws,buys locally etc

I have met with with fierce ,unrelenting ,hostility at all levels,the implied question"what on earth are you doing here,asshole",ever-present/implied,;,threats of violence in the street  from individuals of the street,;a mixed performance from the bureaucracy(some OK,some less so)-a total absence of welcome would be OK but the ferocity and the physical threats of violence has quite taken my breath away-at no time have I met anyone who made who made the slightest effort  to extend the hand of friendship  or welcome to me

But thats Ok-I view my relationship with Cataluña in the round.

The region is marvellous,the people are garbage_i can live with that

 

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 Wasn't a Spanish General quoted as saying recently about Catalonia independance "You can have all the Cultural independance you want, the minute you claim political independance, we break out the machine guns" !!

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 I have family in Catalunya in the Granollers area and I can assure you they are very worried with the situation, there impression is

that people are misinformed and that half of them don't have a clue and just want to wave the flag of freedom. They certainly don't

want Catalunya to seperate. Whether it was a country or not is another debate, at most I think it was a Principality with out a Prince!

Lead by the Count of Barcelona. Actually I believe it was more an amalgamation of counties, becoming a region. It's no more a

country than Valencia, Galicia or Andalucia. It has only been because of it's economic strength over the centuries that it feels it should

be a country. The fact that they have their own language is not enough. Historically if Spain went to battle the catalan soldiers fought

with them, they certainly didn't do that when France went to war. So they have always been "Spanish".

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Quote,

I have met with with fierce ,unrelenting ,hostility at all levels,the implied question"what on earth are you doing here,asshole",ever-present/implied,;,threats of violence in the street  from individuals of the street,;a mixed performance from the bureaucracy(some OK,some less so)-a total absence of welcome would be OK but the ferocity and the physical threats of violence has quite taken my breath away-at no time have I met anyone who made who made the slightest effort  to extend the hand of friendship  or welcome to me

Well I have to say I have never ever experienced anything like that. If I go into a government building, well they are just rude people full stop (funcionarios) they will insist on speaking Castalan to me just because I am a foreigner when in actual fact I speak Catalan. They are mostly descendants of spanish immigrants working in Catalunya. These are the ones I find the rudest, Spaniards who came up for more work and then hate Catalunya. Well bugger off then!

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Nostradamos,

You remind me of a conversation my husband had with an Englishman in Andalucia: 

One day, a Spanish friend approached my husband in the bar, and asked if he could help an Englishman in the bar who couldn’t speak Spanish, despite having lived in the area for some time.  My husband willingly obliged and translated a few things for this ‘John.’  A couple of days later my husband bumped into John once more.  They had a little chat, and then John said, ‘Oh, you’re Welsh, then?  I’ve been to the North – it’s beautiful, but the people ain’t friendly.  In the South, the people are nice, but the place is a f***ing shit-hole.’  My husband replied, ‘I’m from the South.  Where are you from?’  John replied, ‘Essex,’ and my husband said, ‘I’ve been there and that’s a f***ing shit-hole.’ 

Well, he did deserve it, after insulting God's country.

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Quote,

Wasn't a Spanish General quoted as saying recently about Catalonia independance "You can have all the Cultural independance you want, the minute you claim political independance, we break out the machine guns" !!
 

Hmmmm yes and after that the government was very swift to discredit what he had said. I think what he actually said though is that they would send out the tanks! Can you imagine europe allowing that happen? Spain would be very swifly told to cease these type of action or face being booted out of the EU. There are still loads of Francoists in Sapin within the Military and the PP.

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If the Catalans want independence then they should be allowed to have it. Catalonia is bigger than Scotland and has a larger population. I don't see that it would make any difference to outsiders living there at least in the short term. One benefit though would be that the sons of Franco currently in power in Madrid would leave Gibraltar alone. Instead of the daily harassment perhaps Rajoy and his crew would leave Gibraltarians to go about their business.

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  I disagree, they shouldn't be given their independance. If Catalunya is what it is today it is thanks also to the Spanish and they cannot deny that. They can't be compared to Scotland or the Basque Country, it's a completly different kettle of fish as far as I see it. It would certainly have a big impact on anyone living there in the short term and long term if they were to seperate.

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Quote,

I disagree, they shouldn't be given their independance. If Catalunya is what it is today it is thanks also to the Spanish and they cannot deny that. They can't be compared to Scotland or the Basque Country, it's a completly different kettle of fish as far as I see it. It would certainly have a big impact on anyone living there in the short term and long term if they were to seperate.

Yes it is isn't it? Without Madrid giving back a very small percentage of money back to Catalunya that Catalunya gave in the first place. It would not be where it is indeed! Having to beg for bail outs etc. It is well know that catalunya provides more money to Madrid than any other province. It is also more productive as well. Do not rely on the info "given" to you by the rest of the Spanish press who do not want Catalunya to have independance it makes you sound like an uneducated on the subject Castellano!

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I perfectly understand the situation and just because you are in disagreement doesn't mean you can doubt my education. i'm not sure why you assume I am believing the "Castellano " pressjust because I am not in agreement with their independance. Typical pro Catalunya argument.Catalunya provides more money to Madrid than any other province has it's logic, mainly because of it's population, whichif I am not mistaken surpases 20% of the country's population and they pay 9% of their gdp.At the end of the day these are all political decisions, which come and go like Catalunya keeping all of it's IVA. Independance means that they were once a country.I would apreciate it if you would please tell me and explain why they are really a country in their own right. Maybe you can show me how educated you are on the subject.

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