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Who mentioned UKIP's ideals, not me?
Let me know where I can get brain-washed. I have never read such rubbish in my life.
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To suggest that there would be no difference is unbelievably ill-informed and downright stupid. Unfortunately for the rest of us, even idiots can vote in the UK...
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I think the U.K will get on with running their own country and put the £60 million a day that they had to give to the E.U just to remain a member of a E.U club that is destined to fail just look at all the countries that are bankrupt by being a member of the E.U Spain's unemployment is almost 7 million how on earth is being a member of the E.U going to find jobs for 7 million people and that's just in Spain.
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You seem worried. What about democracy and freedom of choice? I am not out of my mind, ill-informed or downright stupid.
What I am quite clearly, is a lot more intelligent than you.
Anyway you will have your right to vote if you are based in the UK.
As for being kicked out of ANY European country.
Why would a country kick people out, when they provide support and finance to the local economies?
Some places in Spain would be bankrupt without the ex-pat communities.
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Why would a country kick people out, when they provide support and finance to the local economies?
Good question. Ask UKIP. That's their official policy. No right to remain even for EU Citizens living, working, and contributing to the UK.
Democracy only works with an informed, educated electrorate. That currently does not exist. You do not make sensible policy on the basis of hysterical scare-mongering and distortions emanating from the gutter press.
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Who mentioned UKIP's ideals, not me?
Scaremongering? Re-read your own post.
Sounds like Armageddon...........
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Financially, for the business in the UK, that is exactly what it would be.
It would also have extremely negative consequences for UK Citizens currently living in other EU countries. Presently, they have rights. Real rights, enforcable rights. After an exit, they would have the same rights as someone from Turkey or Uganda. None.
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So what happens if a Brit appies for residency and gets it prior to the potential of the UK leaving europe? Would they still have the same rights to live there once we'd pulled out? - i guess they would?
Carl
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Carl
(Sorry to go on about this again but using the wrong terminology leads to potential problems).
Residencia only exists for Non EU citizens, like, Americans, Thais, Filipinos etc.
All EU citizens register on the EU Citizens Registar.
Thus, if UK were to leave the EU, those with Residencia (that would not include Brits) would not be affected, but I would assume that all British would be affected, in that they would be required to obtain Residencia, just like other non EU citizens. And that is not all that straightforward.
(My wife is from outside Europe so I know first hand the hoops she had to jump through to get Residencia and each time she needs to renew it. Unlike the EU Citizens Registration, it does not last forever.).
This message was last edited by johnzx on 17/05/2013.
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That's exactly right. What we would lose is our freedom of movement. And we've had it for so long that we forget that we used to have to get "permission" to visit somewhere. However much people might jump up and down about this and stamp their feet, if the UK were to leave the EU (and if no "special arrangement" were to be put in place), UK citizens would lose the right to travel freely around Europe and settle wherever they choose. We would need permission which would probably be granted but it would involve a whole lot more paperwork (and that really WOULD give people something to moan about!).
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Blog about settling into a village house in the Axarquía. http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/tamara.aspx
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That is absolutely correct.
Right now, UK Citizens have a lawful RIGHT to move freely, live, and work within the EU. This is subject to only fairly minimal conditions.
As a non-EU Citizen, there is no such right. You remain by permission. There is a massive difference. Permission can be denied or withdrawn. Conditions can be changed at the drop of a hat, by individual states. Further, those of us who are married to non-EU citizens (my wife is American), can use our status as EU Citizens to allow spouses/partners to live or move with us. That would all end. As for such rights being retained after a UK withdrawal, I very much doubt it. Why would they? Especially as the UK would be doing precisely the opposite.
There are approximately 2 million UK Citizens taking advantage of this.
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I think this would all have to be negotiated. Those of us with property in Spain would need to be compensated by the UK government if they were to deny us our rights... can you see that happening? Interesting to see that Nigel Farage got a very "warm" welcome in Scotland yesterday....had to be rescued from protesters. As someone who divides her time between Scotland and Spain, it will be very interesting to see if
1. Scotland gets its independence and the outcome of that
2. The UK leaves the EU
All very divisive..... Would love to see a debate between Salmon and Farage.
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Those of us with property in Spain would need to be compensated by the UK government if they were to deny us our rights... can you see that happening?
They would not be "denying you" your rights. You would not have any rights. Your existing rights would no longer exist.
This is a critical difference.
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I can't really see why we would "have to be" compensated. I reckon they would argue that we bought homes overseas based on current regulations, knowing that regulations can change. Whether we did or not is irrelevant, I think that's what they would argue. Anyway, some people have property in non-EU countries. It wouldn't prevent us owning them - we would only be able to visit for less than 183 nights, or go for Spanish citizenship.
There's a thread on another forum which insists that we have the "right" as UK citizens to view the BBC (I know, mad, isn't it???). But it's indicative of a very misplaced perception of rights. We would continue to own a house in Spain but would not have the RIGHT to be here more than 183 nights unless we became citizens. I reckon that would be the situation. I agree with 66 that there's no reason why Spain should make an exception for us, given that the UK will throw out the hard-working Spanish along with all the other non-British people. Some people argue that Spain "needs" us, well yes but only if they can differentiate between the contributors and the takers!
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Blog about settling into a village house in the Axarquía. http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/tamara.aspx
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We would continue to own a house in Spain but would not have the RIGHT to be here more than 183 nights unless we became citizens
Tamara, Where do you get the idea that you would have the right to stay 183 days?.
My wife is Filipino, she is non EU and as such does not have the right to be in Spain at all, except as granted by the Residencia she obtained.
If UK left the EU then Brits would be non EU citizens, so as I see it, would have no rights to stay at all. We might even be required to have a visa to visit
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66 - I meant that the UK government would be denying our rights as we bought in good faith. There are so many British property owners in the UK, I'm sure we could make a case for making sure we were allowed to keep them and visit them when we wanted.
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Personally I am convinced that, even if the UK fell into the UK trap (which I suspect will not happen), the outcome is unlikely to result in Spain kicking out those who contribute substantially to the local economy. There also would remain the possibility of UK continuing to be party to the wider European trade area which includes Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and others?
It should be observed that a recent poll indicated that the earlier figure of 51% expressing "interest" in leaving the EU had now reduced to nearer 35%. Remember also that the %age of votes for UKIP in the local elections was 25% of 35% of the voting population in the widely tory shires.
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But MarcBernard - countries tend to get into tit-for-tag behaviour, and the UK would be ejecting Spanish people. And the vast majority of Spanish in the UK are working, paying tax, young-ish and probably not using the NHS much, ie they are net contributors. So Britain throws them out, so why would Spain let us stay if we are non-EU? I agree with you (personally) that despite the noise, the vote is in the end likely to support staying in the EU, but if it went against that then I would not hold my breath for any kind of special treatment. I don't think we are seen as the marvellous benefit to Spain that many Brits seem to see themselves as!
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Blog about settling into a village house in the Axarquía. http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/tamara.aspx
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Obviously no-one knows what would happen if UK pulled out of the EU. There are many non-EU countries with which Britain has a dual taxation policy, a dual healthcare policy and so on. There are many countries where visas are not required and where you can live without becoming a citizen, just as there are many countries which don't have these reciprocal agreements. Who says Britain would kick out existing EU citizens living in Britain? I've never seen that stipulated by any party. Who says trade barriers would be in force? Pure speculation. Norway isn't in the EU but there are lots of Norwegians living here on a permanent basis and with reciprocal healthcare arrangements. I would vote to remain in the EU due to the current arrangements. Yes, it costs us but it would be impossible to have any trading bloc where everyone gets out more than it puts in. I think the advantages UK gains more than makes up for the cost including jobs, freedom of movement and trade. However, scare stories of being booted out, punitive trade tarrifs, visa requirements, loss of healthcare and so on doesn't help the situation. Anyway, the referendum only applies if Cameron is still the Prime Minister in 2017. The "if" in this case being an incredibly huge word. It'll be 2020 by the time anything gets agreed, trade agreements signed, reciprocal arrangements made and so on. Lots can change in the next 7 years, almost as much as has changed in the last 5 years. I think I'll wait until the real picture starts to develope.
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UKIP Policy:
"7. EU citizens who have been established in the UK for seven years or more will, depending on their circumstances, be able to apply for permanent leave to remain (provided they fulfil certain criteria and are eligible to apply for work permits)."
(My italics).
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