The coming worldwide credit crunch

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20 Aug 2007 12:00 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

As someone that works "in the city" I feel its only fair to warn everyone of the coming credit crunch in global markets, sparked by the subprime crisis in the US. I have had the feeling recently that this effect has not yet reached the general public, but I notice that the better UK newspapers are all full of the issue this w/e.

For anyone not aware of brewing developments here is a quick summary:

Around 6 months ago it appeared that a number of specalist mortgage companies in the US were in real financial trouble as a result of their exposure to the US subprime mortgage market. Within weeks as mortgage delinquncies climbed way beyond expected rates, they were refused further finance and were forced into liquidation. Then it all went quiet. A couple of months later a major US bank announced that two hedge funds it ran, had gone bankrupt as a result of its exposure to the US subprime mortgage market. At first the general reaction was that this bank Bear Sterns was an isolated case and there was going to be little impact. Within a few weeks it turned out that this was not the case and not only were more funds going under, but so were major mortgage brokerages. The US federal reserve insisted that the problems were limited to subprime borrowers and that the impact would not spread out beyound this group. Total estimated losses were put at US100billion.

Just this last week it became apparent that not only was the problem not contained in the US, but that it had spread around the world to major european and asian banks. A significant German and French bank both announced that they had suffered major losses as a result of exposure to the same market. To make matters even worse it then appeared that the problem was extending outside of subprime lending to the less risky main stream Alt A mortgages, something that the FED insisted was not going to happen. Within days credit and mortgage markets around the world seized up, lending was halted in the US for every mortgage borrower, and the fear and panic spread to equity markets around the world. The UK ftse had its biggest one day fall in around 4 years.

Central banks around the world were forced to pump billions of dollars and euros into the credit markets to avoid a total collapse of financial markets. But politicians in the US were still talking tough saying that the correction was healthy and there was no risk to the wider economy. The FED governer Poule announced that "only a calamity" would warrant lower of interest rates. Then in a dramatic move on friday before the US markets opened, they made an announcement that the FED discount rate would be cut by half a percentage point. US index futures trading before market open had indicated that the US markets were about to fall even more significantly.

Ok so what has all this got to do with Spain? Well the really frightening thing to me about Spain was that the market here was clearly experiencing problems long before these events came to pass. In other words Spainish property had peaked long before any problems were apparent in the broader economy. In the rest of the world stock markets and property markets were extrreemly bouyant. Now however there is increasing concern that the US is heading for a recession and that when the US sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold.

A number of things make me think that what has happened to the Spainish property market  so far is only the tip of the iceberg. The boom in Spain was largely dependent on a number of positive factors:

1. A booming economy in Europe, in particular a strong houseing market in the UK, making it possible for people to borrow against the increased value of property.

2. An ultra relaxed lending enviroment, in which people have been able to borrow money with fewer and fewer restriction.

3. A low interest rate environment, with generally low levels of unemployment.

4. A belief in much of the world that property was a great investment and could only go up - in summary high confidence.

Events this week have indicated that all the above positive factors are lightly to get much tougher. Confidence in property as an investment is evaporating, not only as delinquencies rise, but as the banks and lending institutions are no longer willing to lend. In some cases even to those with A1 credit history and low loan to value. Investors, the source of the money have taken fright as a result of huge losses in the US.

The property market in the UK is likely to slow dramaticaly as a result of the events of last week. Not wanting to repeat the lax lending problems in the US, the UK banks are already tightening lending standards, and its easily available credit that has been the engine behind UK property prices. Banks have been considering raiseing rates to help offset the risk of new lending. Also being considered is a return to lending standards more common to the past, ie minimum 5% down and much more conservative lending multiples. They have no choice on this matter, as investors are now setting terms.

What concerns me in Spain is that many people have been stuck in the denial phase of investing, refuseing to take a loss, in the hope that things will get better in the future. I can assure those people that things now look likely to get much much worse. Faced with a choice of loseing their UK home or their holiday home, I feel sure that people will want to save their home in the UK. I think for many people who have bought in the UK in the last few years, or those that have re mortgaged, negative equity will return. Unemployment, is likely to rise, lead by a slow down in the city and consumer spending as a consequence of lower activity in houseing and related industries.

In the investement field we have a saying "your first loss is your best loss". I would strongly advise those people here that are trying to sell property to get really realistic about priceing, or to make arrangements for a safe long haul.

I know this post will likely not be received too well. I ask anyone who takes offence to it to atleast read the w/e news and get updated on the goings on in the city. Remember that its the city's and market's job to predict the future, so if you think the UK market is rock solid check out the shareprice charts of the major UK builders, estate agents or any business working in this field. They are all down around 30% in the last few months. The smart money has already moved out fast. The impact of this on a secondary market like Spain is really concerning.

 

 

 

 

 




This message was last edited by TJ222 on 8/20/2007.

This message was last edited by TJ222 on 8/20/2007.

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20 Aug 2007 8:27 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

Bernanke fears economy will hit a brick wall
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 12:47am BST 20/08/2007

Two days before the Federal Reserve stunned markets with a cut in the Discount Rate, governor William Poole said that nothing short of "calamity" would cause the bank to make an unscheduled change in policy. So do we now face calamity, or was Mr Poole being flippant?

All we know is that Japan's Nikkei index crashed 5.4pc overnight on Friday, and that the US commercial paper market seized up last week as borrowers failed to roll over $91bn (£46bn) in short-term loans.

We have hints that the request for the rate cut came from the San Francisco branch, so watch out for bank distress on the West Coast during the next few days.

The Fed explained that "downside risks to growth have increased appreciably", the first admission of anything amiss since the collapse of two Bear Stearns hedge funds set off the credit crunch in late May.

We can presume that Ben Bernanke did not undertake this volte face lightly, given his determination to end the Greenspan practice of reflexive bail-outs - and to shake off his own image as an easy money man. I suspect Mr Bernanke now fears the economy is hurtling into a brick wall.

We are in a more dangerous world now. Stagflation lurks and debt leverage is frightening.

America is sliding into the worst housing slump since the Depression. The median price of new homes has dropped from $262,600 in March to $237,900 in June, down nearly 10pc (Commerce Department). The overhang of unsold homes is 7.8 months' supply. The Case-Shiller index of 10 major cities showed a drop of 3.4pc for all houses in the year to May, with falls of 11.1pc in Detroit and 7pc in San Diego. The market has yet to absorb the shock of 2m adjustable mortgages with "teaser" rates being reset upwards by 35pc over coming months.

The bond markets know the fuse is already lit on mass default, which is why $2,000bn of US sub-prime and Alt-A debt packaged as securities is being marked down so violently on books - German, French and Dutch books as it turns out.

The hit to the real economy will follow soon. Americans now face wealth deflation on both the housing and equity markets. The savings rate is negative for the first time since 1934, leaving no cushion. The game of drawing down home equity to pay bills - 6pc of GDP at the height of the bubble - is finished.

Consumers are wilting.

Look at the profit warnings from Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and Macy's. July car sales were the lowest in nine years - not surprising, since the credit crunch has engulfed auto loans.

A perk of my job is receiving the daily intelligence briefs of the great City trading houses. With few exceptions, they insist that Europe and Asia are strong enough to pick up the growth baton as America slows, while the Brics (Brazil, Russia, India, China) will roar onwards with a vigour that extends this business cycle beyond the old textbook limits.

This "happy hand over" is looking ever more suspect. The eurozone slowed sharply to 0.3pc in the second quarter. Italy is slipping towards recession. French house prices fell 1.5pc in July and Spain's construction bubble is bursting.

The top sources of extra stimulus to the world economy during the past two years have been the US, Spain (yes, Spain, the bubble king) and Britain, in that order. All three are debt addicts, running out of credit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/20/ccview120.xml


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20 Aug 2007 10:26 AM by rowlandsbb Star rating in Gloucestershire &Hue.... 780 posts Send private message

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Started to study for my property degree in 62 and working 65 and I have seen all this several times but 'property always seems to weather the storms' in the medium to long term

And so it will again in EU UK and in Spain

Location location location is what matters and a little patience

if you see a property you like  and can afford it , then there is no reason not to buy and for the majority it will turn out a good investment

The World economy is not about to fall apart, just perhaps a few difficulties for the finance and stocks and Share dealers !! 

Our tangible investments will survive 




This message was last edited by rowlandsbb on 8/20/2007.

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20 Aug 2007 10:54 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

Spain rues the day it joined the euro

I have also been very concerned by people with a vested interest telling others that the Spainish economy is sound and booming. The reality is that the booming economy has largely been as a result of the property boom itself, but the trade deficit figures show the real picture:

http://www.moneyweek.com/file/30888/spain-rues-the-day-it-joined-the-euro.html

So the economy is slowing. In the good old days before they joined the Euro and had rates set for them by the ECB, the Spanish Central Bank would simply have devalued the currency, thus making goods cheaper and boosting the export sector.

Of course it can’t, which means a slowing Spanish economy, and a widening trade deficit. Already, Spain boasts the second largest current account deficit in the world with more than $100 billion outstanding. (The US has the largest, with a gargantuan $862 billion outstanding).

“The current account is completely out of control," said Alberto Mattelan, an economist at Inverseguros in Madrid told the Daily Telegraph. "We have the worst deficit in our history and worse than any other country in the western world. It has not yet become a 'street concern', but I can assure you that it is of great concern to us economists. This will turn bad over the next 18 months," he said.”

What should the central bank do? Because it’s tied to the Euro, it has only one option. Bite its lip and deflate. As Jamie Dannhauser says in a report, The End is Nigh from Lombard Street Research, "Pain seems to be on Spain's doorstep".



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20 Aug 2007 12:47 PM by Rixxy Star rating in San Pedro. 2010 posts Send private message

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Hi TJ222 - very interesting posts and I have myself been watching the world economies albeit on a smaller level!

I agree with what you say and the business I am in is bearing witness to this. I am getting more and more clients having to take painfull losses to consolidate, I am sure they are the tip of the iceberg and bearing in mind many speculative investors have bought in several countries, once they draw their belts is, it is not just one property that is sacrified but several!

Certainly a differing phenomenon to the late 80/early 09s UK housing market but with similar lines across several countries.

Bulgaria wont fare too well either!

Keep posting the news



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20 Aug 2007 6:08 PM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9419 posts Send private message

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I am inclined to think  that- in the micro-economy sphere-  the crisis is more for investors than for home-buyers who have accurately make their accountings before buying. What do you think?

Maria



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20 Aug 2007 7:01 PM by rowlandsbb Star rating in Gloucestershire &Hue.... 780 posts Send private message

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agree

 



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20 Aug 2007 7:27 PM by Patty_1 Star rating in Hertfordshire. UK. .... 1062 posts Send private message

Yes I agree with that Maria, if you have just invested in a holiday home and know your limitations you should be fine.  Investors will have to ride the storm.    Pat

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20 Aug 2007 8:15 PM by semijubilada Star rating in London/Torrevieja. 1052 posts Send private message

I agree as well with the previous comments. 

For anyone thinking of buying a holiday home if you are unable to do so without relying on rental income then I would think again.

We've had our place for 4 years, we stuck to our budget although we were tempted to increase it when we first started looking.  We realised that where we were originaly looking (CDS) the prices were spiralling out of control.

I'd researched and found reports of the last property crash in Spain which was probably connected to the crash in the UK.  Common sense prevailed, changed areas and found a house instead of an apartment. 

This is our second home and if prices fall then we wouldn't worry too much as if we did sell it would be to move to another house in Spain.





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20 Aug 2007 8:51 PM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9419 posts Send private message

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And... Spain is still cheap for british. Is not?



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21 Aug 2007 3:02 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

I also get concerned when people talk about cheap and good value, as concerns the price of property. If I paid 20euros for a mars bar and then tried to sell it to you for 10euros, would that make it cheap or good value? I see so many adverts for property that say 30k euros reduction, as if this somehow means you are getting a bargain. If the person paid 300k euros for a property that is worth only 150k euros, then 270K euros is still very poor value and represents no bargain what so ever.

The reality is that as soon as people started to treat property in Spain as an primarily an investment, rather than as a home, then the concept of the greater fool started to appear. The greater fool theory comes into play when I can convince you that an asset will definatley go up in price. If you become convinced that for instance if you buy asset A from me for 100 and later you can sell it onto another "investor" for 150, then you will be very keen. You will not care too much about the intial price of 100, only the ratio between the two ie a 50% increase.

In asset markets where the price has been riseing for some time, this process tends to feed on its self, as more "investors" get sucked into the market attracted by large gains. As long as there is a greater fool to sell to, and cheap credit to fuel the process, the situation can continue to astronomic levels. Obvious examples of this were the 2000 tech bubble and the tulip bubble in the 17century.

"In 1623, a single bulb of a famous tulip variety could cost as much as a thousand Dutch florins (the average yearly income at the time was 150 florins). Tulips were also exchanged for land, valuable livestock, and houses. Allegedly, a good trader could earn six thousand florins a month.

By 1635, a sale of 40 bulbs for 100,000 florins was recorded. By way of comparison, a ton of butter cost around 100 florins and "eight fat swine" 240 florins. A record was the sale of the most famous bulb, the Semper Augustus, for 6,000 florins in Haarlem.

By 1636, tulips were traded on the stock exchanges of numerous Dutch towns and cities. This encouraged trading in tulips by all members of society, with many people selling or trading their other possessions in order to speculate in the tulip market. Some speculators made large profits as a result."

The common aspect of all these bubbles is that people lose sight of the worth or value of the asset, the only concern is how much it can be sold on for. With property for example there is no thought given to aspects of supply and demand, desirability, quality, income yield, construction costs etc.

When the bubble finally ends, investors are left with assets, whose price bares little resemblance to their value. Once the greater fool theory is over, the asset tumbles in price to its intrinsic value. The longer the bubble, the greater the difference between the final price paid and the intrinsic value.

So how much is a property worth, how do you value it? The problem with an illiquid asset such as property is that the value is difficult to discern until you try to sell it. Estate agents like to tell people that prices have not fallen, but they often quote asking prices, and asking prices might be very different to selling prices, particularly when investors are in the denial phase.

The only way to really determine if a property is good value in an economic sense is to measure the rental yield. If the net yield covers more than your finance costs and the costs of maintenace etc then you may have good value and certainly you are in a postion of relative luxury in that your can sit out your investment indefinatly.

Its important to use nett yield however, as gross yields may be flattering, but are not much use to you as an investor. Historically property has been good value when gross yields have been 12% or more, altho of course this depends on the prevailing interest rate environment.

Had people bought property in Spain as a genuine first home, or holiday home, primarly for their own enjoyment and financed within their means, then the whole issue would be very different. Of course the numbers buying under this scenario would have been much smaller, and likely as a result there would have been no boom. Also the value of the property would have been to the individual owner, its enjoyment and lifestyle value, the price being paid as less significant.

It strikes me that if most investors are non resident, then achieving a decent nett yield is going to be very tough in Spain. Taking into account the rather punative rental taxes, tax that applies even if you don't rent, and then the agencies fees, most peple are going to struggle to make ends meet. Add in massive oversupply in many areas and you can appreciate the problem. If interest rates increase, this compounds the misery.

I do not know, but I suspect that most investors were told that the property would be a good investment, because they could rent it out to cover costs. I wonder how many people are discovering that this is simply not going to help?

 

 

 

 



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21 Aug 2007 8:59 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9419 posts Send private message

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I meant cheap not thinking of the value of  the property  in Spain as an investment to be sold , but cheap refering to the general cost of life that, together with the sun and the lifestyle make my country  attractive to those having it as their new place of residence.

What i try to expose is that this crisis will not be for those who really want to enjoy the goods of spain and bought, are buying or will buy a house for their own enjoyment.  At the end of the day, they are the best constructors of our economy too.

Wish they will learn to understand and love this country more and more. I hope to be a contributor  for that with my legal advise.



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21 Aug 2007 9:23 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

Maria

Yes I think Spain is a great country and a great people. Imho there is so much going for Spain as somewhere to live and enjoy. Just a bit concerned about property. I shall be renting when I finally move.

 



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21 Aug 2007 9:39 AM by rowlandsbb Star rating in Gloucestershire &Hue.... 780 posts Send private message

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By all means rent first but do not be put off buying......there is nothing quite like owning the roof over your head-even in Spain

As you would in UK, just do some research, pick a nice location  and use the right people to help you



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21 Aug 2007 1:44 PM by chelseadel Star rating in Welling kent & Las .... 155 posts Send private message

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I'm 52 do not have a mortgage on my home in England, and like a lot of other people are not buying in Spain as an investment. the villa we are having built will be a second home to live in and I really could not give two hoots if it's value goes up or down, we are buying into Spain and a different way of life .


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21 Aug 2007 4:14 PM by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

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Probably exactly the way you should look at it Chelseadel - unfortunately the mind set of most Brits is to assess their wealth in terms of what their castle is worth - mortgaged or not - unlike the Germans who look at their Mercs and Beemers that way (apologies to any of our German cousins) - while many people are buying into Spain as a way of life I reckon most of them (no doubt you too) would be disappointed if they wished or needed to sell and had to sell for a loss juts to move it on. Only my view and no wish to be controversial just pragmatic

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21 Aug 2007 4:15 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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"By all means rent first but do not be put off buying......there is nothing quite like owning the roof over your head-even in Spain"

So true. I was brought up to believe in the old bricks and mortar addage, and recently it has been brought home to me in a rather depressing manner. An ocatagenarian widowed friend of mine has lived his entire life in rented accomodation. He has lived a good life, as he has always had plenty of disposable income, but sadly he now finds himself in a position where his pensions barely cover his rent. As a result, his remaining capital is rapidly diminishing. He had the opportunity to buy the apartment he was renting a few years back. Now it is "worth" double what he could have paid, but at the time he couldn't see the point.

I'm not too sure of the relevance of this tale here, other than to agree with those who point out that if you are buying for yourself, for the long term, then these doom & gloom scenarios are nothing to worry about.

Very interesting posts, though, TJ222, (albeit confusing for a small brained bear - or monkey) and a reminder of exactly why I failed my Economics A'level!



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21 Aug 2007 4:15 PM by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

21 Aug 2007 7:20 PM by chelseadel Star rating in Welling kent & Las .... 155 posts Send private message

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I'm half German on my mothers side, and I drive two BMW's (not at the same time) fortunately when I pay for a property it comes out of my disposable income, so I don't miss it, what's gone is gone.


This message was last edited by chelseadel on 8/21/2007.

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21 Aug 2007 7:33 PM by Patty_1 Star rating in Hertfordshire. UK. .... 1062 posts Send private message

Roberto, their is relevance to that story I know of two couples in England that had the chance of buying, they decided not to and now on pensions and cannot afford to pay the rent.   My opinion for what it's woth it is better to buy even if it is a struggle to start with.  Pat  

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