The coming worldwide credit crunch

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22 Feb 2008 10:06 AM by Smiley Star rating in San Pedro de Alcanta.... 2502 posts Send private message

22 Feb 2008 10:22 AM by Rixxy Star rating in San Pedro. 2010 posts Send private message

Rixxy´s avatar
Shud a said - I had packets of them. Well, they wer eyellow after being sucked for a few minutes!!!

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26 Feb 2008 5:31 PM by morerosado Star rating. 6927 posts Send private message

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Today we had a letter from a local estate agents which said they'd recently sold a house the same as ours nearby & now they had disappointed buyers eager to find a similar home, 4 bed, 2 bath. They are waiting on my reply.



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27 Feb 2008 11:02 AM by VickiT Star rating in Bournemouth. 121 posts Send private message

More, I think you'll find that the 'letter' is an old agents' ploy for getting more listings!  Especially at the moment when things are a little quiet, they 'slip drop' (as they call it) every area every day in most cases.



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27 Feb 2008 11:05 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

http://www.citywire.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?VersionID=101470&MenuKey=News.IFA&XDU=4e060a00-e20e-475e-8a3b-b6915d294216&XDS=O&XDNG=True&XDKL=0&XDURL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.citywire.co.uk%2fNews%2fNewsArticle.aspx%3fVersionID%3d101470%26MenuKey%3dNews.IFA

The financial markets will never return to where they were before the global credit crunch, the head of the city watchdog has said.

Speaking on the Today programme this morning on BBC Radio 4, Hector Sants the chief executive officer of the FSA, said: 'The new normal will be different from the way that markets behaved in the past.'

This new normal, he said, would see banks reverting to old-fashioned ways of lending.

Sants said that banks should consider how to adapt their business models.

 

What this means is a return to time honoured lending practices ie 25% down and 3.5 times income. What you say - No one could ever afford to buy a house at current prices - exactly

House prices are coming down and fast.



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27 Feb 2008 11:29 AM by morerosado Star rating. 6927 posts Send private message

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Yes Vicki, I wasn't born yesterday.  I know exactly what they're up to.

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27 Feb 2008 11:43 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

Why this now all of a sudden, perhaps its because Brown's miracle economy is more illusion than real. The UK now has a terrible burden from non productive government jobs and its benefit culture - from the article - quote :

"If you want a recipe for getting people on IB [incapacity benefit] we’ve got it. You get more money [than unemployment benefit] and you don’t get hassled, you can sit there for the rest of your life."

I see these characters sitting outside my local Supersol, they come down from Orgiva apparently to beg and add to their UK benefits. As the UK boom ends look for times to get a lot tougher for the benefits crowd and unfortunatly the diminishing number of workers who have to support them.

 

Millions forced to work in benefits shake-up


By Andrew Porter, Political Editor
Last Updated: 10:21am GMT 27/02/2008

 

Millions of benefit claimants will be forced back to work in the biggest shake-up of the welfare state for 60 years, ministers will announce.

  • Your view: Would the welfare state benefit from part-privatisation?
  • Drug addicts who drop out of rehab 'to lose benefits'

    Large parts of the benefits system are to be privatised, with companies hired to find jobs for the unemployed, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

     
    The proposed reforms are based on recommendations by government adviser David Freud

    Private firms will be given incentives of up to £50,000 each to get people back to work and reduce the country's £12 billion annual incapacity benefit bill.

    Only last month, David Freud, the government adviser on whose recommendations the reforms are based, said he believed that up to 1.9 million of those claiming they are too sick to work could be found jobs.

    In addition, hundreds of thousands of lone parents will face stiff requirements to find jobs or face losing their benefits, a move certain to infuriate Labour backbenchers.

    People who refuse to co-operate and reject work interviews will have their benefits "sliced".

    The proposals, to be announced by James Purnell, the Work and Pensions Secretary, represent the largest shake-up in the welfare state since it was established after the Second World War following the Beveridge Report of 1942.

    Mr Freud believes that the true level of people claiming incapacity benefit should be closer to 700,000, rather than the present 2.7 million.

    The investment banker, who has been hired by Mr Purnell as a part-time adviser, believes that it is affordable to spend large sums of money on getting people back to work and giving companies incentives to make sure people stay in employment.

    Mr Freud has calculated that it is rational to spend £62,000 on getting the average person on incapacity benefit back to work.

    Under the proposals, companies will be rewarded for finding someone a job, provided they stay in work for more than 18 months.

    A limited form of this scheme is already in existence but contracts only involve getting people into a job, with no incentives for securing long-term employment.

    Mr Purnell will tomorrow call for the private sector to "deliver a flexible and personalised approach for everyone". But in return it will have to deliver tougher targets.

    He will unveil a "commissioning strategy" that will "change the rules of engagement" between the Government and the private companies charged with getting people back to work.

    Contracts with the DWP are already worth £1 billion a year but the Work and Pensions Secretary wants even greater private sector involvement. He will say their involvement is "here to stay and set to grow".

    Recent figures showed that 500,000 people under 35 claim incapacity benefit. Of the 800,000 lone parents, the Government will try to get 300,000 back to work.

    In an interview with The Daily Telegraph this month Mr Freud issued a devastating critique of the welfare system.

    "If you want a recipe for getting people on IB [incapacity benefit] we’ve got it. You get more money [than unemployment benefit] and you don’t get hassled, you can sit there for the rest of your life."

    Welfare has become a political battleground, with the Tories outlining plans to get people off state handouts and Labour introducing increasingly tougher measures.

    Key points:

    Private companies to be offered up to £50,000 for finding unemployed people jobs for 18 months.

     Lone parents to be forced to return to work when children are aged seven.

     1·5 million of 3·5 million long-term benefit claimants to be helped back into work in total.

     People refusing to co-operate and find a job will have benefits 'sliced'.



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    27 Feb 2008 11:48 AM by VickiT Star rating in Bournemouth. 121 posts Send private message

    TJ, I was really quite enjoying this thread but your last post has left me feeling depressed!!!  Head in the clouds "La la la can't hear you" think that'll be me from now on!

    More, I should've known better!





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    27 Feb 2008 12:00 PM by Acapulco Star rating in Costa Blanca South.. 342 posts Send private message

    Acapulco´s avatar
    I just wonder where the jobs are going to come from. Are there that many available? A lot of those that are "working "  seem to e on cushy numbers and some of those are on decent money.

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    27 Feb 2008 12:25 PM by morerosado Star rating. 6927 posts Send private message

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    Vicki I have a pic JUST FOR YOU then.




    This message was last edited by morerosado on 2/27/2008.

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    27 Feb 2008 12:32 PM by VickiT Star rating in Bournemouth. 121 posts Send private message

    Looks a bit like me too!



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    27 Feb 2008 1:55 PM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

    This guy sounds like me:

    But I have long warned Gordon Brown that unbalanced growth led by consumer spending based on borrowing was not sustainable because it did not reflect any underlying improvement in the fundamentals of productivity growth and innovation

    and:

    We can see now in the United States where we shall be in six months time. But, unlike the US, we have little or no scope for macroeconomic stimulus. Interest rates cannot be cut aggressively because of inflation fears.

     

     

     

    Gordon Brown's long boom ending with recession is a real possibility


    By Vince Cable
    Last Updated: 10:23am GMT 27/02/2008

     

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    Gordon Brown's proudest boast - repeated annually at Budget time - is to have delivered the most successful, sustained period of economic growth since before the Hanoverians.

  • The latest news and analysis of the UK and world economy

    He would be unwise to repeat it this year.

    His long boom is now heading for a messy end with a slowing economy, rapidly weakening consumer and business confidence, a collapsing asset bubble in the housing market and a big hole in the budget.

    So far these problems seem remote from most families. There is a feeling as on those late, sultry summer days where there is blue sky overhead and cricket is being played; but there are wickedly black clouds billowing up.

    Until the rain falls the Government will not get a soaking. But wise people are looking for shelter.

    A lot of pundits are positioning themselves to be wise after the event. But I have long warned Gordon Brown that unbalanced growth led by consumer spending based on borrowing was not sustainable because it did not reflect any underlying improvement in the fundamentals of productivity growth and innovation. I warned him of "record levels of personal debt which is secured, if at all, against house prices that the Bank of England describes as well above equilibrium level". That was five years ago.

    Since then debt and house prices have inflated enormously to levels which, in relation to income, are now the most extreme in the developed world. The bubble is now bursting. Forward markets tell us that house prices are likely to fall 10pc on average this year. Serious people anticipate a 30pc to 40pc correction over the next few years.

    The economy is slowing with recession a real possibility. The only glimmer of light at present is the stimulus to manufacturing from the - unplanned - devaluation of sterling.

    We can see already that households are spending less as they try to rebuild their balance sheets. As growing numbers see their (paper) wealth depreciate, and many discover negative equity, there is less willingness to use equity release to maintain spending.

    As the economic slowdown affects earnings growing numbers will fail to maintain debt service and we shall see mounting repossessions - already in evidence - depressing the housing market further.

    Even those tempted to borrow are unable to as lenders re-price risk and tighten lending criteria. Those stuck with recent 125pc, Northern Rock, Together mortgages will not be able to refinance them.

    We can see now in the United States where we shall be in six months time. But, unlike the US, we have little or no scope for macroeconomic stimulus. Interest rates cannot be cut aggressively because of inflation fears.

    There is no scope for a fiscal stimulus either since the Government is at or beyond the limit of its self-imposed deficit and debt rules. The best option would be a tax neutral redistributive tax package which cuts basic rate income tax financed by taxes on the capital of the very wealthy.

    But even if a macroeconomic stimulus were possible it could be of doubtful relevance to asset deflation. Is there anything the Government can or should do about a collapsing housing market?

    The market has to correct itself. An adjustment may even be socially progressive if it restores affordability. The Government should certainly not acquire, as in the US, household mortgage liabilities. It already owns enough via Northern Rock. I worry about the pressure from mortgage lenders for a government bail-out in the form of state support for mortgage payments. There are, however, several sensible steps the Government can take.

    First, those individuals facing potential financial difficulty and over-indebtedness must have access to decent impartial, generic advice, and not be left to be chewed alive by the financial vultures who will descend on them.

    The Government has been particularly dilatory - I was told almost a decade ago that action was immediate. And, by all accounts, the Thoresen Report is being emasculated by the vested interests. The Government should back a rapid rollout via the CAB network jointly financed by the industry - through the FSA levy - and the state.

    Second, it is important to avoid regulatory overkill. But the unregulated predatory lenders - the sale and leaseback merchants and the consumer credit companies who take second charge mortgages - must be brought under mortgage regulation.

    Third, there must be intervention to stop a vortex developing of repossession, subsequent homelessness and fire sales of property. Before court proceedings are allowed, debtors and creditors should pass through a gateway of arbitration during which the debtors have access to independent advice.

    A key element in the arbitration process would be the availability of a part rent, part buy, option in which the bank acquires a share of the equity in lieu of full payment.

    The more responsible lenders already look at such possibilities; the cowboys act as free riders, which is why a voluntary approach may be insufficient.

    Finally, prevention is better than cure. Big asset bubbles are dangerous and monetary policymakers have to be able to counter them not, as now, watch passively while they grow, then burst.

    Interest rates should respond to measures of inflation which incorporate house prices, enabling interest rates to rise more and sooner in a boom and fall in a slump. A further step is to have active, counter cyclical management of reserve assets, building on a cyclical dimension to the implementation of the Basle rules.

    I argued for this concept several years ago and Charles Goodhart and Avinash Persaud have now set out a specific and practical proposal.

    The Government - like the lending industry - has been in a state of denial about these problems for too long. Unless it gets to grips with them, its already tarnished reputation for economic competence will be trashed beyond repair.

    Vince Cable is Liberal Democrat Deputy Leader and Shadow Chancellor



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    28 Feb 2008 6:06 PM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

    Anyone else watching the Euro/GBP ?

    Since last summer the pound has lost 13% against the euro and it shows no sign of stopping as the UK is forced to cut rates to save its bubble economy.

    So poor old brits a 250k euro property has just gone up by 22,000 pounds.

    Its Pi**ng me right off as I "earn" my cash in GBP, but spend in Euros grhhhhh



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    28 Feb 2008 7:01 PM by Marksfish Star rating in Vera, Almeria. 2624 posts Send private message

    Marksfish´s avatar

    I can see the downside of the credit crunch as my Wife works in the mortgage arrears department for Barclays. She has said that there are more and more people handing their keys in BEFORE they get into arrears and not even considering keeping their houses on.

    On the flip side, it is good for us as there is so much work that overtime can be very profitable, which means we can pay our mortgage!!

    Mark





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    29 Feb 2008 8:15 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

    "Mr Bernanke also believes the Fed is in a more difficult position to respond now that it was in 2001."

    Too right it is - this was all so predictable. In 2001 oil was 20$ a barrel, gold $275, inflation less than 2%. Now thanks to the reckless houseing bubble and reckless debt, we have 102$ oil and climbing. Inflation is set to go thru the roof and the consumer is drowning in the cost of living. You cannot imagine how bad this is going to end.

     

    Bernanke says US slowdown will eclipse dotcom bust


    By James Quinn, Wall Street Correspondent
    Last Updated: 12:03am GMT 29/02/2008

     

    Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke said that the impact of the current housing-led slowdown in America has the potential to be far deeper than the collapse of the dotcom boom at the start of the decade.

  • The latest news and analysis of the UK and world economy

     

    In his second day of semi-annual assessment of the economy on Capitol Hill, Mr Bernanke explained that the decline in home prices is causing a broader set of problems than the end of the technology bubble.

    Comparing the 2001 slowdown to the economy's current woes, he said: "In fact the effects of the stock market declines were primarily on investments. In this case, consumers are taking the brunt of the effects."

    Mr Bernanke also believes the Fed is in a more difficult position to respond now that it was in 2001.



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    29 Feb 2008 8:59 PM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message



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    29 Feb 2008 11:02 PM by Eva2008 Star rating in Reading. 152 posts Send private message

    Eva2008´s avatar

    Sorry, on a completely different note, I love the little bird running out of the shop with the packet of crisps! He looks so naughty.

    by the way, I no longer listen to the news, I just wait for TJ's postings, as he seems to tell it like it is. well done.





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    02 Mar 2008 10:28 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

    02 Mar 2008 11:37 AM by morerosado Star rating. 6927 posts Send private message

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    Hi TJ, it was 349,500€ actually for 45 sq m.  

    I'd be far more worried about the swimming pool on its side in second one.  (Fancy not rotating photo !)








    This message was last edited by morerosado on 3/2/2008.

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    03 Mar 2008 7:12 AM by TJ222 Star rating. 317 posts Send private message

    Are we approaching the end game for paper currencies?

    ``You can't find a currency that you trust as a store of value, so you create a new one,''

    Gold Beats Financial Assets as Investors Seek Haven (Update1)

    By Millie Munshi and Pham-Duy Nguyen

     

    March 3 (Bloomberg) -- Gold, silver, platinum and palladium may be the best-performing financial assets this year as inflation and slowing growth erode the value of the world's major currencies, bonds and stocks.

    Precious metals have risen at least twice as fast as the euro and yen in 2008 and returned six to 20 times as much as U.S. Treasuries. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index and all other major gauges of equities are down. Gold for immediate delivery reached an all-time high of $980.98 an ounce today, while silver on Feb. 29 was the most expensive since 1980.

    Investors are using metals to preserve their buying power as the U.S. dollar falls to a record and inflation accelerates. Gold, platinum and palladium may gain at least 30 percent this year as Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke prioritizes cutting interest rates over controlling consumer prices, said Ron Goodis, a trader at Equidex Brokerage Group Inc. in Closter, New Jersey, who has been buying and selling gold since 1978.

    ``It is hard to see how the monetary environment is going to be anything but supportive of higher gold and commodity prices anytime this year,'' said Chip Hanlon, who holds gold as manager of $1.5 billion at Delta Global Advisors Inc. in Huntington Beach, California. ``If currencies don't carry a favorable interest over metals, then why not own gold or platinum?''

    Most metals are traded in dollars, tying their prices to how much the currency buys in the world economy. Gold rose 36 percent since Sept. 18, when Bernanke made the first of five cuts to the target rate for overnight loans between banks in order to stave off a U.S. recession. It's up 15 percent since breaking the 1980 record in January, and may rise another 33 percent to $1,300 an ounce by yearend, Goodis said.

    Platinum, Palladium

    Platinum and palladium -- sister metals used to make jewelry, catalytic converters for cars, and dental crowns and bridges -- have advanced even more this year.

    Platinum futures in New York gained 42 percent and touched a record $2,214.50 an ounce Feb. 22. It may advance 38 percent more to $3,000 by yearend, said Goodis, who correctly predicted its surge earlier this year. Palladium will probably reach $750 an ounce by June, a 30 percent gain from the current price, he said.

    Silver will advance another 26 percent to $25 an ounce sometime this year, estimated David Davis, an analyst at Credit Suisse Standard Securities in Johannesburg.

    Bernanke lowered rates faster than any Fed chairman since 1982, and inflation in 2007 jumped 4.1 percent, the most in 17 years. U.S. housing starts in December fell to the lowest level since 1991, and fallout from the collapse of the U.S. subprime mortgage market has triggered $181 billion in writedowns and credit losses at the world's largest financial firms.

    Record Low Dollar

    Turmoil in the financial markets and slowing economic growth pose ``greater risks'' than inflation, Bernanke told the House Financial Services Committee in Washington on Feb. 27. The Fed ``will act in a timely manner as needed to support growth and to provide adequate insurance against downside risks,'' he said, signaling he was prepared to make a sixth reduction in rates.

    The U.S. Dollar Index, which tracks the currency against six major counterparts, touched 73.531 today, the lowest since its start in 1973. Even gold traded in euros, yen and pounds reached records this year as consumer prices rose around the world, eroding the appeal of currencies as an asset.

    The Bank of England cut borrowing costs twice since November. European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet resisted similar moves because inflation in the 15 nations that use the euro rose to a 14-year high of 3.2 percent in January.

    `Under Your Bed'

    ``You can't find a currency that you trust as a store of value, so you create a new one,'' said Robert Fullem, vice president of U.S. corporate foreign-exchange sales at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi in New York. ``Safety ends up being a piece of metal. You can stick it under your bed, and sometimes that's your best bet.''

    The rally in metals may be fleeting should some of the biggest holders sell or the dollar rebound.

    The U.S., the largest shareholder of the International Monetary Fund, said Feb. 25 it may allow the IMF to sell as many as 401 metric tons of gold to meet budget shortfalls. The Fed forecasts food and energy costs will stop climbing in the months ahead. Frankfurt-based Deutsche Bank AG, the world's biggest currency trader, expects the dollar to rise to $1.37 against the euro by yearend.

    ``Gold is not a currency -- you're never going to be able to use gold coins at the 7-Eleven,'' said Ralph Preston, an analyst at Heritage West Financial Inc. in San Diego.

    Gold, which once backed the U.S. dollar and British pound, reached a 20-year low of $253.20 in July 1999 as U.K. Prime Minister Gordon Brown, then the chancellor of the exchequer, spearheaded an effort to sell the precious metal and invest in government bonds.

    Northern Rock Run

    That year Peter Ward, a mining analyst at Lehman Brothers Inc., predicted the metal would hover at about $280 over the following three to four years, as other central banks followed Brown's lead. By the end of 2003, it was at $417 because the dollar had been falling. Ward declined to comment last week, and New York-based Lehman estimates gold will average $880 in 2008.

    Gold & Silver Investments Ltd., a Dublin-based precious metals broker, said demand for gold there jumped 20 percent from mid-September to mid-October as the subprime crisis spurred depositors at Northern Rock Plc to make the first run on a U.K. bank in more than a century.

    At least 95 percent of the new buyers have kept their money in the bullion, Mark O'Byrne, Gold & Silver's executive director, said in an interview on Feb. 26.

    ``They were very, very nervous and wanted security,'' O'Byrne said. ``Some were putting their entire savings into gold. They were that nervous.''



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