Good News In Southern Spain

Hi Sal and TP

Me and Lesley have been waiting patiently for the voluntary admin to deliver its verdict, like many others.  The information i have, and it corresponds with the UK laws is this.....

The voluntary administration is not like UK, as you know.  You wont be able to sue until after this has delivered a verdict.  If its a verdict that the company can carry on they have to trade in a correct manner and satisfy creditors. Which includes offering new proposals to all creditors, not just one site or another.

If the proposals arnt satisfactory and they are then outside the concurso admin, you can get your lawyer to sue for breach, the protection from creditors is over and your contracts are still un fulfilled and out of date.

The percentage in the euro payout that Tony mentions, in the UK its done through arbitration and agreed between debtor and creditor usually in chambers.  Nobody can tell you to accept 70% or any other figure, its your money and its fully owed until either you accept less, or they go bust. and the company is wound up.

My view is that either they trade through it with proposals for everybody, not just a few...........or they go bust and get liquidated.

The whole liquidation procedure is reported as could be 5 years..................the thing is the administrators will have done most of the work already, coveniently.  The exact worth of the company will be known in about a months time..............

Think about it...............the sites worth buying will be available complete with customers, the land not yet compromised is available for sale.  It will probably be best all round to wind them up if there is no satisfaction in September!

Hi All

Having registered as a creditor already and when the decisions are made by the courts/administrators is it after this that we make a choice as to whether you want your money back or your house ?  If so do you have to register which is your preferred choice at that time i.e. the end of September. Or because you are registered as a creditor is it automatic that you want your money back.

I'm still learning about the way things go so I would be grateful if someone could clarify this point for me.

Thanks Chrissie

Hi Chrissie.........simply put its like this

You are a creditor which means you paid a deposit or funds for goods, you get recognised as that in administration and that your title is good.

Your ambition i think would be to either get the goods supplied or your money back?

Its not up to us to decide house or money back, thats a business plan for the builder to put together in a legal way with whatever they have left to work with, finance, options, customers etc.  All they need to know is that we paid for a house on a plan and we are expecting it to be supplied.

Then its up to you to decide if it satisfies your requirements..................Dont settle for what is thrown at you, you go for what you wanted in the first place, thats what you paid for and decide if you can get it.

If not.......ask your solicitor to advise you of how you can get your money back.

I must ask what is the point in trying to prolong the life of a company, which has taken your money, invested it and seen a yield which has gone into their coffers. Then they mis-managed the company and brought it to its knees. Would you trust that company, its directors and managers to sit on your money for a couple of years more, in the hope that they could deliver the goods.
Regarding dividends and quoting 70%, please take a look at the London G for eveidence and you will fing 7%-12% on offer.

If a company can afford to pay all creditors 70%, in the current climate it is quite healthy. Bet the major banks wish they were in that position.

Thanks Brian.

I do feel very nervous at the moment and needless to say am finding it difficult to put my trust anywhere. I have been through several phases being angry then flaming angry.  I feel very angry with the selling agent because they should have given me all the info i.e BG, but now I even understand that they get a percentage of money to not give you that info.  When we went to Spain in March this year I knew something was wrong because of the way the agents were being (having quiet conversations with newly arriving brits at the hotel we were staying). The original lawyer we had should have made sure I was safe, they didnt.  Then the developer having been asked by myself and requesting a BG telling me they would send me one and they never did.  This past few months have been enough to try the patience of a saint. Like pushing an elephant up hill.

I think the next month or so is going to be sh.t or bust because I feel like Iv'e been led up the garden path.

Chrissie. 

Hi Chrissie,

Braindo is right in that it is up to the company to make the offer and then for the purchaser to decide if they wish to take it or not. As has been said refinancing is being negotaited and all being well new contracts and completion dates will be offered. My solicitor believes that will be the case and 90% of his clients want their properties and the administrators are being informed that this is the prefered option. He is also going to discuss compensation for the delay etc.  I beleive that it is up to each purchaser to decide what their prefere option is  ( including a transfer to a completed property on another SJ/HDT development) and then have that conveyed to the administrators by the solicitor and if the property is offered and the package is acceptable then you can decide to go ahead.

For some people due to their circumstances and personal needs they will seek to get their money back and they will have to negotiate on that point.

Hi Braindo,
Regarding the 70% being a reasonable amount I speak from experience of the County Court and the legal advice that I was given at the time.  It may be different in Spain but there appears to be this concept of reasonableness in this types of court action, in the UK at least.

AS for getting our houses, I amazed that some people still can not accept that refienancing is taking place etc and that there is a growing probabitly of  SADM going ahead. We will all know soon enough, so lets try to be nice to one and other.

All the best
Tony

Hi FIN

I for one wouldnt want the company to carry on doing what they have done so far.............which is buying up parcels of land and getting people to buy into a scheme that they evidently had no chance of delivering.  Thats what is on offer if the IWMH brigade were to just sign up to business as usual.

I want to know if the various parts of the business can be made more likely to survive by selling off and getting someone who has the customers interests in their plans, to finish off.

Highly unlikely...............at the minute i feel the company by seeking protection from creditors, has some funds to pay back, and is not completely on its knees.

Give them a licence to continue and they might be on their knees in 18 months.................wind them up now and there may be a surprising dividend from what i can gather.......................pipedream maybe but i have a gut feeling its the best option.

Then again a flying pig told me they have investors waiting to come on board and all will be good in a month or so............hmmmmmmm

I am sorry to say Chrissie that I feel the same way and cant offer you any hope . I think time will tell  that we have  all been sold up the river and will get nothing . I am not expecting anything now that way I wont be disappointed. I am pursuing my BG and if that doesn't pan out I am going to forget about it .I cant bare to waist anymore of my time and energy  or money on this. JA

Hi Tony

Yes outside the administration or the liquidation in UK, when there is a broken contract it is an arbitration process, providing there are provable breaches and no force majeure suffered its an agreed settlement that can be arrived at between parties.

Its not the case though that a company can just say, we havnt got enough money so you will have to accept less.  Thats only when its being shared out at the end of a liquidation or bankruptcy.

Brian

Hi Briando, its seems to be common knowledge amongst estate agents that it is a group of Russian investors that are interested in SJ/HdT. Any thoughts in this being a viable option or is it just more rumours? Cheers Joanniemac

Hi Briando,
I am amazed by your comment. Wind a company up a you will get very little aspecially during an economic down turn . It is not in any purchasers interest for the company to fold and I beleive you know that.  If the company trades then it wil be able to service its debts, you posted something similar to that a few weeks back. 

So on behalf of myself and all of those who have paid for our homes/ properites at SADM I want to make it perfectly clear that we need a positive outcome and for most according to my solicitor it is getting the property ( 90%) 

All the best

Tony

 

Hi Tony

Its just a possibility that the company are more cash rich now than they will be in 18 months time...........if they had nothing in the coffers and we were faced with a 10% return i would say yes, go for it, nothing to lose.

If they have anything like 70% return now i would wind them up and snatch their hands off...............wouldnt you?

In the current climate, as you say, i would not gamble...i would take my medicine and get out of here now.

Hi Tonymal  
Can I just ask why you are so sure SJ will be able to secure refinancing given the huge mess they have made in the past ? As sure as you are that they will refinance I am equally as sure that they will not and if there were any deals on the horizon they would have released some details at least to restore confidence in the projects.The thought  , as has been mentioned  before of a Russian financial deal is truly laughable. 
I will get no satisfaction when you are proven wrong . As it will hurt all of us beyond repair in many ways . 
When the Judge sees the true facts and financial  situation of SJ ie it is a criminal offence to do what they have done not issuing BGs , selling without licence  etc .  What then  . I for see criminal proceedings arrests`the lot which would explain why JRM is not in the country at the moment and wont be for some weeks. Sorry but if I am wrong I will eat my hat  live on a web cam on this forum  es verdad    JA

Sorry Joannie i dont know...............and i dont trust estate agents either

My guess is any investor will want to negotiate quietly though.................

Thought you were going to eat pants JA............lol, carefull what you say!

Hi Ja,
I do beleive that SJ/HdT will be refinanced and that SADM will go ahead but I would ask that you do not eat your hat but share a cold drink.  With a motorway  being built that will link Jumilla to Alicante that will make it easier and quicker to get to the coast makes the site more appealing. 

I do hope that you get your money but i also hope that  for those of us who want our house  get our properties.

All the best
Tony

hI Briando pants hats whats the difference I know I am right so no need to be careful .!!

Tonymal only one thing to say to that          Pants  really biggggg pants !

My God, JA what an appetite you have! Your going to eat your house and hat ! Lol Cheers Joanniemac

Tonymal on a serious note you did not say why you thought refinance is likely just that it is. I have said that I think it is unlikely and my reasons for this is that I believe too many of SJs previous dealings  will be deemed illegal by the judge in the current climate of cleansing corruption for them to be allowed to continue. This is my reason against them being allowed to continue .Once again what are your reasons for believing all is well  in terms of refinancing and legality ?